God doesn't seem to exist!

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Your implication that Lintar would subscribe to your ideology if all he knew was the fashionable opinions relentlessly pushed in the media is, perhaps, correct. However, the presumptions proposed as "the last word" in all knowledge and wisdom by the "zeitgeist" is only tenable to those who don't know anything else. There are "thousands of articles, papers and video presentations" on just about every fantastic fancy known to Man, from green giants living in a hollow Earth to infinite "multiverses" in "worm holes".

Once one gets detached from observation and logic there is no such thing as objective reality... reality is whatever suits convenience.

Don't you pay attention to physics. We are not certain about reality. At best reality goes against common sense and we are still filling in the details we know. For you to suggest that simply because it strains ones mind to wrap it around these ideas make them false or in the zeitgeist. You guys seem to wrap your so called arguments into this confusion and call this confusion to undermine what we know. Those of us who pay attention understand that incomplete understanding doesn't mean that understanding isn't correct as far as it goes subject to new information. It means we haven't filled it out yet...

That's your inference, not my implication. I'm not seeking converts to an ideology, I'm contending statements by someone whose views I disagree with.

As for the "fashionable opinions in the media", you have not provided examples of which specific articles or reports you find fault with, let alone established which ones I agree or disagree with. You're in full unsubstantiated hot air mode, and we're only on the first sentence of your post.



"The last word" in what? Claims of ultimate authority are the domain of theists and the mentally ill.



And this is relevant to the current conversation how?



Once one gets detached from observation and logic, one becomes unobservant and illogical. It rather explains your inability to form a cogent argument.

So far my whole argument is about physics and logic.

I rather enjoy "straining my mind" to "wrap it around" interesting things like quantum mechanics and all that stuff; but there is no way I want to destroy my mind by trying to "wrap it around" subtlety presented absurdities.

Hmm. Which part of logic and observation do you not understand?

1; Observation: things exist.
2; Observation: changeable things are dependent on being caused and sustained by things other than themselves.
3; Logic: a thing that does not exist cannot cause itself to exist.
4; Logic: changeable things are caused by an uncaused First Cause.

So your definition of a "First Cause" is thing that cannot change. A thing that cannot change cannot create or cause. Your First Cause is a logical impossibility.

Now I'm convinced, Wittgenstein was right.

God in a nut shell. The truth behind it all!

^^^

Ironically, Frank Braum, the story 'taler'; TRULY, behind the Wizard of OZ is associated with the Theosophic Esoteric Society of schooling in gaining paths to human enlightenment, wITh TRUE Freedom; far beyond a patriarchal commercial ideal of human freedoms, such as the American Dream; with a home; a car; a married couple; and a boy and girl to round out two children to making a family living the ideal in idol of American Dream.

The Wizard of OZ is but a kind old gentleman
helping folks gain a path to enLIGHTenment
in Wisdom and Kind enCouragement
AKA Unconditional Tough LOVE.

The Lion is for courage; the scarecrow for reason; and the Tin man for heart.

Dorothy fails to understand in Kansas that her true home is the GOD that lives and
breathes within her; instead of a lofty outer goal of imagination.

The True Yellow brick road is the golden path of wisdom back to
integration of human mind and body balance in ways of
emotional regulation; sensory integration;
greater focus in positive FEELING;
and working short-term
memory to make
the spread of
Wisdom
Efficient
as UNCONDITIONAL
TOUGH LOVE CAN BE..

Understanding human archetypes of unconscious
mind and using those human archetypes for one's
advantage is certainly not territory limited to
Frank Braum, or even Carl Jung;
Literature is full of these lessons;
historically, in mythological fairy tales;
to '50 Shades of Grey'; 'Harry Potter';
Star Trek; the list is beyond
limit as Truth takes
many faces
to spark a
a life
renewing for simplicity's
Joy and Bliss in this
thing cALLed truly;
with empowering
SKeyes of GOD
in Truest
HUMAN
FREEDOM1!..

Well, what else can I say? Yes, the members of I.S.I.S. who engage in head-chopping do believe that what they are doing is right, but that's not the point. The point is that what they are doing is not right; it is objectively wrong. At all times, forever, and regardless of excuses or circumstances.

'Subjective perspective'? So, since from their 'perspective' they consider what they are doing to be right, and since the moral relativist's position is that there are no absolute moral values, I cannot therefore judge their actions? Is that the message you are giving me here?

No wonder Western civilisation is collapsing. We no longer even have it within ourselves to even see the barbarians in our midst, never mind actually oppose them. How did we ever become so weak, so reluctant to stand up for what is right? Churchill must be spinning in his grave. He managed to stop the Nazis, but he didn't count on the rise of the moral relativists, spin doctors, Marxists, and politically-correct post-modernists (i.e. fifth columnists, traitors and useful idiots) who are doing their best to destroy all that is good and worth preserving.

Well, excuse me for not having read literally 'thousands of papers' on the subject, but I have both limited time and other priorities in life, so yes, you could argue that my comprehension of the subjects of psychology and sociology is not what it should be. That, however, does not mean that I actually am wrong, now does it? If I am wrong, then why has not the discovery that we don't need God (not religion - different claim) to ground morality been trumpeted far and wide by our secular, agenda-driven mainstream media? From them I have heard only silence thus far (although they do like to grab every opportunity they can to introduce 'experts' to tell us that God is a daft idea - ex. the physicist Lawrence Krauss has now appeared about ten times on the A.B.C. programme 'Q&A').

Exactly! We simply don't have the time to go through all the junk that is out there, to 'sift the wheat from the chaff' as J.C. once put it. Yes Oldavid, you are correct when you attribute such attitudes to ideology; what happens to be fashionable to believe in the current 'zeitgeist' is that material reality is all there is, morality is not absolute, and science as it is currently practiced will eventually be able to explain everything. Well, I've never been one to follow fashions, and I see no reason now to change that.

AspieOtaku, you just don't get it, do you? You still subscribe to this silly Dawkinoid strawman idea that God is an invisible, bearded sky-daddy, and that because our telescopes can now see to the most distant regions of our physical universe and have not (predictably) found within this universe your absurd caricature of God, that, by golly - there is no God!

Wow, such theological sophistication. For this lame 'effort' you get five eyerolls

Your god seems to have insecurity issues and have the need to have a man behind the curtain represent him,if he is real of course! God is the great and powerful oz only not so great or powerful otherwise he would not need to rest on the 7th day after creating the stars in one and taking 6 days creating one planet then having to rest lmao! Why did god have to rest? I thought he was supposed to be perfect,if he has to rest then it means he is not perfect and has a weakness and has limited power!

God and Oz are one in the same, a ploy to keep people in fear to do what he sais but nothing else than a man made concept of illusions and facades! The man who comes up with the idea of a god hides behind a curtain and projects his thoughts from a hologram to make it seem real and keep people in fear.

God: You dare question god?
Me: yes I do because you gave us free will, which is your mistake!
God: I don't make mistakes! I am perfect!
Me: But you gave us free will allowing me to question you!
God: gah....no!! I am perfect!! ! I know all!!
Me: If you know all then why did you give humans free will, let alone place the tree of knowledge and tell Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit but they did anyway? It is as if you wanted it to happen! If you wanted total obedience you would not have given us humans free will!
God: Gahhhhhhhh your right nooOOOOoooooo *fades away*
Me: I win!