Is Suicide a Sin?

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12 Jan 2013, 6:52 pm

No it isn't a sin. It's tragic that anyone no longer sees value in their life. Suicide is what people do when they are at the end of what they can stand in life, be that due to physical pain, mental pain, one tiny little thing that tips the balance into them feeling nothing will ever be right again, etc.

I do feel sorry for their friends and family and can't imagine what they are left to face afterwards (that is, the ones who cared in the first place) but I believe that by the time one is suicidal, they've gone past the point of being able to care about others' feelings, or sometimes they even feel they are so bad/worthless/hopeless their loved ones would be better without them around.

No, I can't judge a suicidal person badly, and I hope if there is a next-life, that they find the peace and happiness they never had in this one.

NAKnight
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12 Jan 2013, 11:12 pm

Even if all religions are bogus, so what? The act of taking one's life is without question detrimental to everyone involved.
If Christianity is correct, the ramifications and consequences for an action such as that are eternal.

Jake

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12 Jan 2013, 11:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Raptor wrote:

If someone wants to off themself that's up to them.

As long as they do it in a way that does not endanger others.

ruveyn

According to this, someone committing suicide by jumping off a building is out, as that can be dangerous to others.

Krabo
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13 Jan 2013, 1:07 am

ruveyn wrote:

Krabo wrote:

There's something strange about suicide. Mostly people kill other people for self-defense or revenge. How can one kill oneself for self-defense?

Avoidance of intractable intense pain. That is a form of self defense.

ruveyn

Maybe so. But that done, what is there left to defend? Doesn't defense have an aspect of future? Considering suicide, this future is short-term.

Tell me, ruveyn, as an atheist, are you ever afraid of your own death? You may have already answered this question several times in numerous other threads, but let's imagine you haven't.

slave
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13 Jan 2013, 1:17 am

NAKnight wrote:

@TallyMan

Have you ever walked into the ICU room to see your close friend strapped to life support?
Have you ever wondered if the pain that she felt was horrific or if any at all.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of someone you have admired and all you see is cold, lifeless beady eyes?
Do you know the feeling of one day talking to a close friend and the other day, getting a call that she is dead.
Do you know that experience?

I'm not talking out of my ass. Call me a dick, hell call me what you want. Ban me, hell I wont care.

I know that sh**. I know that sh** gets real, real quick.
I'm trying to not buy into the "Gloom and Doom" mentality that surrounds this thread.
I have conviction that every human life has purpose and meaning.
Suicide wastes that purpose and meaning. You do not need to lecture me on pain and suffering, I know it well.
My life has purpose and meaning, your mother's has purpose and meaning and even on her death bed.
Your life has meaning and purpose.

I'm not trying to be "Sweet" to anyone. I'm a nice guy, personally I don't like to be f**** with. I would like to expect the same from others.

I will say this as well, it was YOU who wrote that out of anger, not Jake.
YOU opened YOURSELF up to be confronted and offered a different position, not me.
Your letting those situations define who you are and you need it let it go.

Jake

"Good job, finnaly someone got through to him.

Beset Regards,

Jake"

""Obvious troll is obvious"

hahah

Jake"

and

"EPIC FAIL

This is too funny.

Jake"

These are quotes from Jake toward someone else within the last 24 hours....hmmmm.....

" I'm a nice guy, personally I don't like to be f**** with. I would like to expect the same from others. "

slave
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13 Jan 2013, 1:41 am

TallyMan wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

My grandfather died just about 8 months ago.
... On his deathbed, he asked for "an end", and he didn't get it. Instead, he died a painful and extremely humiliating death. Thanks a lot, world!

I am generally not an emotional person, but my tolerance for general "Suicide is Sin" statements has dropped to the "Them's Fighting Words" level since that episode.

I can relate. My mother died a slow agonising death from cancer over many months when I was 23 years old. By the end she looked like one of those skin covered skeletons you associate with Nazi concentration camp victims. She begged me to help her die but I was unable to do so (so many conflicting and painful emotions). When she finally did die it was an immense relief for not only her but everyone else too. My father and I suspect that the Macmillan nurse who stayed with us for the last few days assisted her and gave her an overdose of her powerful pain medication but we didn't make an issue of it; it was a merciful release out of her agony either way.

I have worked with many in palliative care. I feel compassion for their horrendous suffering and the pain of their family and friends. A member of my family recently died a skeleton after 4 years of anguish. I was with him when he died.
Though it was some time ago, I realize, I am sorry for your loss and your personal suffering.
Take care.

NAKnight
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13 Jan 2013, 12:31 pm

slave wrote:

Oh, boy, here we go again....
Apparently Slave doesn't have a sense of humor to laugh at his own jokes.

Jake

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13 Jan 2013, 2:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

Nothing is a sin.

Well, torture, murder, genocide - the list goes on and on

Those are war convention violations and/or crimes (some against humanity).

For that matter, all life has potential. But whereas when given the potential some lives will be Ghandis, Martin Luther Kings, Lincolns and whoever invented Pizza. Other lives will be Mansons, Hitlers and whoever invented High School Musical. But most lives will be average Joes not really doing much.

Quote:

If Christianity is correct, the ramifications and consequences for an action such as that are eternal

If Christianity is correct, I am already going to hell for masturbating or any other minor thing anyway. I might as well support euthanasia.

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13 Jan 2013, 2:42 pm

TallyMan wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

It's more a sin against nature, and a waste. Your life matters. Always.

If you'd lived through the last few months of my mothers life as I've just outlined you wouldn't be so black and white. There is no Always. How would you feel about your life if you vomited almost everything you ate, you had to be spoon fed and could only eat food that had been blended into a thin purée, you were uncontrollably incontinent (both urine and faeces). Had to be carried to the toilet and held upright so you didn't fall over. Needed your arse wiping for you. All your hair fell out. You knew you would never walk again, never be able to do anything independent of others carrying your body to where you wanted to go, knowing you were in a slow spiral a slow death from which there was no possibility of recovery. You looked like a skin covered skeleton. Were in constant agony. Were on painkillers and morphine so strong you didn't know what day it was or started forgetting who people were. You could hardly sleep due to the pain and sometimes woke up choking on your own vomit. You slowly starved to death over several months. Now tell me suicide is a sin or wrong "Always".

TBH if I were on really strong painkillers and they worked, I wouldn't care.

NAKnight
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13 Jan 2013, 2:46 pm

Here is another article that might shed some light.

When a person claims that suicide will end a person’s suffering, they are making a religious claim about the nature of life after death. This cannot be avoided. They are counting on the fact that there is no conscious existence beyond the grave, or that whatever greets us will be pleasant, an improvement on the misery of life on this earth.

If they are wrong, though, and there is a hell awaiting those who deserve it, then for some euthanasia will not end misery, but compound it. The person suffering here on earth is not transported to a place of peace and rest, but rather to an infinitely greater suffering in hell. It is theoretically possible, then, that “mercy killing” could actually be an act of cruelty.

It seems impossible to avoid the intrusion of religious views on either side of this issue. This is not a matter of one party forcing his religious view on another. It’s a matter of two religious views competing with each other. More is at stake here than some people realize.

Jake

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13 Jan 2013, 2:49 pm

To go even further, I cannot say what I would do because I have never been in that situation. Knowing me, I would hang on because that's how I am in and I can put up with a lot of discomfort. Would hope I could get painkillers though.
And perhaps this isn't really a suicide. This is just the inevitable, right? Someone is going to die anyway. Is this really suicide? I don't think it is.

To me, suicide is when a young, healthy person goes out and freezes themselves in the middle of the night because they are depressed. To me, this is a sin against nature. Sorry if you feel differently.

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13 Jan 2013, 3:01 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

My argument is that if someone is in agonising pain and terminally ill with only weeks or moths left to live with no quality of life, they are perfectly justified in taking their own life rather than perpetuating it. I am saying this from having lived through the experience of living with my mother while she died over several months and seen at first hand the horrific suffering she underwent, slowly starving to death, with her begging for someone to end her life. Painkillers, no matter how strong, do not turn ongoing daily torture and a horrible slow death into a painless process - they don't work like that.

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13 Jan 2013, 3:08 pm

TallyMan wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I am sorry you had to endure this it must have been horrific, but my question to you is, is that really the same as someone who suffers from depression and no other ailment ending their life? Is it in the same class? To end the life of someone who is succumbing to death in a matter of weeks or days and it will definitely happen wants to go peacefully, is it really a suicide?

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13 Jan 2013, 3:19 pm

NAKnight wrote:

What's your point?

I see those paragraphs as scare tactics. Typical of organized religion. I don't count on the fact that there's no existence beyond the grave. I do hope that if it exists it will be beyond the judgmental BS of this world, and that if there is a loving god, that love includes those who take their own lives - a truly unconditional love would, wouldn't it? If god is less than that, as judgmental as most people I've met, then I have no respect for that god, and if I burn in hell so be it. I rebel against such a god. I will rebel forever against a judgmental, unforgiving, unloving god. To me that's not a god but a devil. If you want to worship such a god, go ahead. I don't.

I have spiritual beliefs, but not such conditional, cruel ones intended most likely to keep someone going back to and tithing their church out of fear.

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13 Jan 2013, 3:24 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I would make a distinction between someone who is clinically (suicidally) depressed and someone who is terminally ill dying a slow agonising death. The former can seek treatment and get help and maybe find some quality of life but for the latter there is no longer any medical help available that can make them well again and the hospital has sent them home to die. A stage may be reached during the last weeks or months of life of someone who is terminally ill that their quality of life is so horrific that they should be allowed to end it with dignity if they wish. She had been begging to be allowed to die. When my mother finally died it was an immense relief for everyone. We all mourned her death but in spite of this the whole family were happy on her behalf when her suffering finally ended.

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13 Jan 2013, 3:30 pm

TallyMan wrote:

I can understand and I know it must have been difficult. My grandfather was terminally ill and my mother experienced a similar situation although she has never talked of him wanting to end his life. It is tremendously painful for everyone involved and you have my sympathies.

We are coming from two entirely different perspectives. I was thinking from my own experience with someone suffering depression alone and committed suicide in a way that seems agonizing to me. This is what I meant as a "sin against nature." I cannot think of another way to describe it.

Since what you and your family experienced is in itself a sin against nature, since illness can be viewed that way, I cannot apply that term to your mother wishing the pain would end. I hope what I am trying to say is clear.

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