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Janissy
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03 Jun 2015, 7:02 am

guzzle wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
The basic ingredients are all there


And WHERE did THEY originate?
You know, them basic ingredients...
Not a god believer me, just wondering like...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis


Quote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.



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03 Jun 2015, 7:50 am

Janissy wrote:
guzzle wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
The basic ingredients are all there


And WHERE did THEY originate?
You know, them basic ingredients...
Not a god believer me, just wondering like...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis


Quote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.


Abiogenesis got nothing to do with it. I'm not interested in the origins of life. And these days I only have a passing interest in the origins of the universe. This NEED TO KNOW has passed me by. Suppose I'm not that much of an OCD'er after all. Unlike so many...



Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2015, 9:19 am

I apologize if my earlier post was slightly rushed; I realized halfway through that I was late for work.

Oldavid wrote:
Yair, well, there's plenty of evidence to dismiss the claims of the Materialist/Atheist lobby but I guess what you're saying in a roundabout way is that evidence doesn't count.

Very cute. Tell me, why do you not have to justify your rejection of the myriad of gods humankind have conjured up though the ages, but I have to justify my rejection of your particular ones claims, or accept him by default? If holy texts have any claim to be revealed truths, then there are much more impressive ones out there.


But just out of curiosity, what would this plethora of evidence be?


Oldavid wrote:
Atheism declares that it can/does know that no supreme being exists, summarily dismissing any evidence to the contrary. As such it falls squarely inside the faith, belief system, superstition, religion courtyard.


I'm glad I get to be told what my position is by someone in the opposite camp. Thank you. As for this quote; even if that were true, you realize, of course, that you're asking me to prove a negative? "Evidence to the contrary of "no supreme being exists""? Are you familiar with the term "null hypothesis"? It's what yours is not.

Quote:
What may be extraordinary to me may not be to you. It's purely relative and, therefore, utterly useless as a guide to determining what is actually true.

Not entirely. The point I was trying to make before was that an extraordinary event (we both know what I mean by that, don't be obtuse) that actually happened would indeed leave extraordinary evidence behind. A volcano eruption may be more common in some places than in others, but I don't think there's anywhere it would be considered an everyday occurence. Also, they tend to be hard to miss, and leave evidence of their happening behind. Snowfall can happen in the middle of summer. Not ordinary, and leaves evidence. Small animals falling from the sky? Extraordinary, leaves evidence, can be explained.


Oldavid wrote:
That many organic molecules can be synthesised with cleverly contrived apparatus and input of energy does not indicate that any such processes can, or do, spontaneously occur outside of cleverly contrived apparatus and reaction conditions.

I'm sure that said cleverly contrived apparatus being cleverly contrived to contrive the conditions of ancient earth, under which said processes are "fancifully speculated" to have taken place, is entirely irrelevant?


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03 Jun 2015, 9:33 am

guzzle wrote:
Janissy wrote:
guzzle wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
The basic ingredients are all there


And WHERE did THEY originate?
You know, them basic ingredients...
Not a god believer me, just wondering like...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis


Quote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.


Abiogenesis got nothing to do with it. I'm not interested in the origins of life. And these days I only have a passing interest in the origins of the universe. This NEED TO KNOW has passed me by. Suppose I'm not that much of an OCD'er after all. Unlike so many...


Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.

'Where did the ingredients for

life actually originate'.

It depends on who one asks.

Some years, Stephen Hawking credits

GOD and some years he credits nothing.

Einstein, back in 'the day'
credits EVERYTHING,
like Spinoza does too..:)

For now, some scientists suggest the answer is nothing.

For me that's like raising one's arms up in the air and just
giving up; or the height of material reductionism to the point of

NOTHING.

or

LOONY.

or

NOTHING=LOONY.

Who knows what the next theory will be:

The best answer according to science IS:

The answer
varies in distance
and space in the
'wheel chairs'
of
so-called
scientific
BRILLIANCE.

I FOR one am
not impressed
with NOTHING.

THAT'S; OMG, LOONY!

Dinosaurs would giggle
if they are alive and can
Giggle; that's loony; but
at least its worth a LAUGH..;)

SCIENCE can be LOONY; AS
the scientific method alone
is just a tool, with NO BRAIN.


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Janissy
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03 Jun 2015, 10:10 am

aghogday wrote:

wiki wrote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.




Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.

'Where did the ingredients for

life actually originate'.



You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?



guzzle
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03 Jun 2015, 10:32 am

Janissy wrote:
aghogday wrote:

wiki wrote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.




Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.

'Where did the ingredients for

life actually originate'.



You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?


Quote:
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” ― Robert McCloskey

I was asking about the ingredients that started it all.
Where do the gasses that make up interstellar dustclouds originate?
Long before the galactic environment was capable of supporting abiogenesis or stellar nucleosynthesis.
How did the singularity come to be?
Hoggie understood that's what I was asking. He did read the question properly...



aghogday
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03 Jun 2015, 10:50 am

Janissy wrote:
aghogday wrote:

wiki wrote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.




Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.

'Where did the ingredients for

life actually originate'.



You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?


^^^
See above,

from the questioner.

I like the quote;

It's just not what guzzle asked.


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pcuser
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03 Jun 2015, 10:55 am

guzzle wrote:
Janissy wrote:
aghogday wrote:

wiki wrote:
The elements, except for hydrogen, ultimately derive from stellar nucleosynthesis. Complex molecules, including organic molecules, form naturally both in space and on planets.[13] There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:

Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.




Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.

'Where did the ingredients for

life actually originate'.



You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?


Quote:
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” ― Robert McCloskey

I was asking about the ingredients that started it all.
Where do the gasses that make up interstellar dustclouds originate?
Long before the galactic environment was capable of supporting abiogenesis or stellar nucleosynthesis.
How did the singularity come to be?
Hoggie understood that's what I was asking. He did read the question properly...

The fact that we don't understand all the details doesn't require a God to exist and be the creator. In fact, that smacks of magic, not science... Science is comfortable with not having every answer...



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03 Jun 2015, 11:29 am

pcuser wrote:
The fact that we don't understand all the details doesn't require a God to exist and be the creator. In fact, that smacks of magic, not science... Science is comfortable with not having every answer...


Reality is that scientists are not happy with not having every answer. They keep theorizing, have to really as their theories don't add up as it stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_un ... in_physics

Funny also how you refer to science as an entity rather than a tool.



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03 Jun 2015, 11:36 am

guzzle wrote:
pcuser wrote:
The fact that we don't understand all the details doesn't require a God to exist and be the creator. In fact, that smacks of magic, not science... Science is comfortable with not having every answer...


Reality is that scientists are not happy with not having every answer. They keep theorizing, have to really as their theories don't add up as it stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_un ... in_physics

Funny also how you refer to science as an entity rather than a tool.

Probably better than calling you a tool...



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03 Jun 2015, 11:41 am

pcuser wrote:
Probably better than calling you a tool...


And what is that supposed to mean :?



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03 Jun 2015, 12:34 pm

Hmm; speaking of tools..;)

I personally always see science as a mindless tool, in terms of the scientific method, from the time I am a research associate in Archeology at the University level; A human being out in nature, digging, digging all day long with the already knowledge; that yes, with enough work; one will find bone fragments, charcoal, pottery shards, and other artifacts of human subsistence. And then there is the tedious menial lab work of hours upon hours of mechanical cognition in weighing, bagging, and labeling subsistence stuff, hour upon hour, of true human insanity.

The problem is the solution is already known. American Indians live in the area in various places; but we wanna find out precisely where they live. Oh God; 'what fresh hell is that'; but hell of already knowing the issue without having to know all the dirty details from sand to charcoal to bone and what nots to survive.

This is the problem with science; oh GOD it is so slow and boring; now don't get me wrong; I'm happy that folks sacrifice their much fuller humanity to spend decades of tedious mechanical cognition ways of restricted being to bring the comforts of life to me, in greater and greater cultural amenities; but seriously, STUFF IS NOT THE STUFF that leads to continual human joy in living.

All that REAL stuff, is internal stuff, with the connecting environment of nature; including humans, YES, other flesh and blood HUMANS; AND THE REST OF FRIGGING NATURE, as humans are simply and complexly evolved to live.

The problem is when humans become the extensions of their tools; and this is a common illness of cultural induced true insanity.

I cannot convince my wife that she is an animal; I mean seriously, she will not even entertain the idea. That is beyond sad; but truly it is the result of her fundie religious upbringing that puts humans above the rest of animal nature.

But the problem is; that fundie science beliefs and ways of life are no less deleterious to a full life of living in joy as a human being.

Even science shows now; that a life spent in mechanical leaning cognition activities only (i.e. systemizing science mind) represses the empathic, creative, artistic connecting to other flesh and blood humans in social cognition in the physical intelligence of living life in joy.

That's a serious problem of our modern cultures where humans become the tools of mechanical cognition (i.e. robot humans) instead of full humanity in mind and body balance able to reason the failures of the past into the successes of the future; but most importantly, to feel and connect as part of the interconnecting interdependent relationship of all of nature that truly is the REAL FORCE OF EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE that does exist.

Science is just a tool. To become a tool, is well, not so WELL; just to become a tool.

There is a danger in that of real human misery and suffering. And even science
understands now that a deficits in physical intelligence in ways of regulating
emotions, integrating senses; and increasing cognitive executive functioning
through greater focus and short term memory, is a causal factor for
at least some forms of what is described as the abstract construct
of Autism Spectrum Disorder; as constructed by members
of the American Psychological Association, who truly
only assess the behavioral deficits as such, rather
than any innate potential causal factors.

Problem though is it is considered
politically incorrect now to suggest
that parental coldness in nurturing
is a causal factor too; when scientists
determine there are genetic causes too,
like fragile X syndrome; WELL guess what;
now science shows that the so-called 'Re-
frigerator Mother Theory of Autism has at
least some causal factoring effect too, as children
who are not properly nurtured in terms of touchy
feely parental or other surrogate nurturing during
the first two years of life do not develop the wiring
to feel love in terms of oxytocin ways of bonding, as
reward of social cooperation with other human beings.

These are common sense things that the political correct
ethics of science has fallen behind on; that is easily visible
to any social worker; working with cold hearted parental
families with their faces stuck in work and play electronic
devices; while empty armed children do not get enough
hugs to live as human connecting individuals to the
rest of other humans; in the number ONE scientific
assessed factor of human happiness; that is
the flesh and blood connection
to other human beings.

And then there is the issue
of recess and physical education;
dropping by the way-side of much more
importance placed on spoon-fed; sit your
butt still and quiet; in class DOMINATION
OVER potential freedom of human mind
and body balance; taken away by
THE TRUE INSANITY OF STUPIDITY
OF science ways of systemizing
thinking human beings making
an entire generation, the metaphor
of the Zombie Apocalypse come true;

And science itself mirrors back the errors
of ways of cultural insanity in systemizing
ways of living in a head; instead of much
greater physical intelligence, per social
cognition, as studies of college age
adults show empirical measures
of empathy dropping as much
as 30 percent, in just several
decades toward the
RISE of the
ZOMBIE
APOCALYPSE,
COME TRUE TO NOW.

GOD IS THE INTERCONNECTING
RELATIONSHIP OF ALL STUFF SEEN
AND UNSEEN, KNOWN AND UNKNOWN,
FELT AND NOT FELT; And truly the biggest of
problems today; limiting feeling this interconnected
relationship of all things, starting with human social
cognition that is also directly related to feeling empathy
with the rest of nature; not just human nature; human beings
have oxytocin receptors in the bottom of their feet; not just to
connect to mom and dad; but as naturally evolved by the GOD of Nature
to connect to the soil of earth that supports all life on this planet as is, NOW.

Truly perhaps, one of the saddest things of all of life, is adult feet rarely
touch the sand barefoot; and the skin of the entire body rarely touches
the face of the sun in warmth and natural nourishment in greater
potential strength through beneficial neurohormones and
neuro-chemicals. People hide in the shades of
fear of skin cancer; people wear shoes
in the fear of sand worms; and people
lather themselves up with anti-bacterial
soap in the fear of germs; and folks
wonder why they are too weak to
even feel good in the world
they live in, with emptiness.

The answer
is clear.
God is nature.
There are laws of this
God of nature that apply to humans
without intentional prejudice; and to
GO AGAINST THIS GOD OF NATURE
PER THE FORCES AND LAWS OF THE
INTERCONNECTING RELATIONSHIP
THAT IS PRECISELY THIS GOD
OF NATURE IS The main
cause of human
suffering and
misery through
the chronic
stress of living
against nature
and human nature;
instead of living
with the God of nature
in harmony of nature
manifest in human being.

Meanwhile, scientists spend their
life proving life comes from nothing
and in doing so, more or less, they
become nothing in greater innate
instinctual and intuitive POTENTIAL
REAL HUMAN NATURE
IN SIMPLE BLISS AND
JOY; not unlike a cat
rolling around in the
sand of a noon day
sun; or hugging
the grass in the
light of a
full moon
night.

LIFE IS POETRY, DANCE
AND SONG; TRULY ART.
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
AND done to the exclusion
of life is well; unwell; just plain
REAL FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE
INSANITY.

But it takes nurturing parents;
a village of caring people;
and a life spent connecting
to other flesh and blood
humans barefoot on
sand and naked
free under the
Sun of God;
to have
any frigging
clue; what I am
even speaking of here;

In fact, science suggests
that there is NO THERAPY
THAT will work for a child
not properly nurtured in
touchY feelY love the
first two years
of life.

But don't tell parents
with their nose stuck in
their electronic devices
that the 'Refrigerator
Mother Theory' is
A REAL DEAL;
AND PERHAPS,
the worst thing
that can happen
to any human
being anywhere
in terms of
A GREAT SUCCESSFUL
LIFE OR MISERY AND
SUFFERING LIFELONG;
in ways of bullying other
folks; addiction of all
kinds; and just plain
human hell come truth;

WheRe the chalice of
potential love of human
being is empty, and never
'FEELED' enough to suffice
continuous joy in living life
and connecting to other
flesh and blood humans
and THE REST OF NATURE
AKA
GOD.

Believe it or not; it's truth;
tough love truth; but
never the less,
truth; and
worth
changing
for greater human
potential of simple
joys of life if;
at all
possible...

Take it with a grain of sand
if one likes; but that may
be just what one's
feet are starving
for; in terms
of loving Nature
as all of GOD.

American Indians rarely
doubt this truth;
and neither does
the same blood
of the Sioux
dancers and
Cherokee
artists who
live in my
ancestral
BLOOD

NOW.


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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2015, 12:49 pm

Yes, no need to call anyone a tool.

I think he means "the scientific community" when he speaks of science as an entity. Science is still the method and/or the more nebulous concept of knowledge.


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03 Jun 2015, 2:08 pm

aghogday wrote:
Hmm; speaking of tools..;)

I personally always see science as a mindless tool, in terms of the scientific method, from the time I am a research associate in Archeology at the University level; A human being out in nature, digging, digging all day long with the already knowledge; that yes, with enough work; one will find bone fragments, charcoal, pottery shards, and other artifacts of human subsistence. And then there is the tedious menial lab work of hours upon hours of mechanical cognition in weighing, bagging, and labeling subsistence stuff, hour upon hour, of true human insanity.

The problem is the solution is already known. American Indians live in the area in various places; but we wanna find out precisely where they live. Oh God; 'what fresh hell is that'; but hell of already knowing the issue without having to know all the dirty details from sand to charcoal to bone and what nots to survive.

This is the problem with science; oh GOD it is so slow and boring; now don't get me wrong; I'm happy that folks sacrifice their much fuller humanity to spend decades of tedious mechanical cognition ways of restricted being to bring the comforts of life to me, in greater and greater cultural amenities; but seriously, STUFF IS NOT THE STUFF that leads to continual human joy in living.

All that REAL stuff, is internal stuff, with the connecting environment of nature; including humans, YES, other flesh and blood HUMANS; AND THE REST OF FRIGGING NATURE, as humans are simply and complexly evolved to live.

The problem is when humans become the extensions of their tools; and this is a common illness of cultural induced true insanity.

I cannot convince my wife that she is an animal; I mean seriously, she will not even entertain the idea. That is beyond sad; but truly it is the result of her fundie religious upbringing that puts humans above the rest of animal nature.

But the problem is; that fundie science beliefs and ways of life are no less deleterious to a full life of living in joy as a human being.

Even science shows now; that a life spent in mechanical leaning cognition activities only (i.e. systemizing science mind) represses the empathic, creative, artistic connecting to other flesh and blood humans in social cognition in the physical intelligence of living life in joy.

That's a serious problem of our modern cultures where humans become the tools of mechanical cognition (i.e. robot humans) instead of full humanity in mind and body balance able to reason the failures of the past into the successes of the future; but most importantly, to feel and connect as part of the interconnecting interdependent relationship of all of nature that truly is the REAL FORCE OF EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE that does exist.

Science is just a tool. To become a tool, is well, not so WELL; just to become a tool.

There is a danger in that of real human misery and suffering. And even science
understands now that a deficits in physical intelligence in ways of regulating
emotions, integrating senses; and increasing cognitive executive functioning
through greater focus and short term memory, is a causal factor for
at least some forms of what is described as the abstract construct
of Autism Spectrum Disorder; as constructed by members
of the American Psychological Association, who truly
only assess the behavioral deficits as such, rather
than any innate potential causal factors.

Problem though is it is considered
politically incorrect now to suggest
that parental coldness in nurturing
is a causal factor too; when scientists
determine there are genetic causes too,
like fragile X syndrome; WELL guess what;
now science shows that the so-called 'Re-
frigerator Mother Theory of Autism has at
least some causal factoring effect too, as children
who are not properly nurtured in terms of touchy
feely parental or other surrogate nurturing during
the first two years of life do not develop the wiring
to feel love in terms of oxytocin ways of bonding, as
reward of social cooperation with other human beings.

These are common sense things that the political correct
ethics of science has fallen behind on; that is easily visible
to any social worker; working with cold hearted parental
families with their faces stuck in work and play electronic
devices; while empty armed children do not get enough
hugs to live as human connecting individuals to the
rest of other humans; in the number ONE scientific
assessed factor of human happiness; that is
the flesh and blood connection
to other human beings.

And then there is the issue
of recess and physical education;
dropping by the way-side of much more
importance placed on spoon-fed; sit your
butt still and quiet; in class DOMINATION
OVER potential freedom of human mind
and body balance; taken away by
THE TRUE INSANITY OF STUPIDITY
OF science ways of systemizing
thinking human beings making
an entire generation, the metaphor
of the Zombie Apocalypse come true;

And science itself mirrors back the errors
of ways of cultural insanity in systemizing
ways of living in a head; instead of much
greater physical intelligence, per social
cognition, as studies of college age
adults show empirical measures
of empathy dropping as much
as 30 percent, in just several
decades toward the
RISE of the
ZOMBIE
APOCALYPSE,
COME TRUE TO NOW.

GOD IS THE INTERCONNECTING
RELATIONSHIP OF ALL STUFF SEEN
AND UNSEEN, KNOWN AND UNKNOWN,
FELT AND NOT FELT; And truly the biggest of
problems today; limiting feeling this interconnected
relationship of all things, starting with human social
cognition that is also directly related to feeling empathy
with the rest of nature; not just human nature; human beings
have oxytocin receptors in the bottom of their feet; not just to
connect to mom and dad; but as naturally evolved by the GOD of Nature
to connect to the soil of earth that supports all life on this planet as is, NOW.

Truly perhaps, one of the saddest things of all of life, is adult feet rarely
touch the sand barefoot; and the skin of the entire body rarely touches
the face of the sun in warmth and natural nourishment in greater
potential strength through beneficial neurohormones and
neuro-chemicals. People hide in the shades of
fear of skin cancer; people wear shoes
in the fear of sand worms; and people
lather themselves up with anti-bacterial
soap in the fear of germs; and folks
wonder why they are too weak to
even feel good in the world
they live in, with emptiness.

The answer
is clear.
God is nature.
There are laws of this
God of nature that apply to humans
without intentional prejudice; and to
GO AGAINST THIS GOD OF NATURE
PER THE FORCES AND LAWS OF THE
INTERCONNECTING RELATIONSHIP
THAT IS PRECISELY THIS GOD
OF NATURE IS The main
cause of human
suffering and
misery through
the chronic
stress of living
against nature
and human nature;
instead of living
with the God of nature
in harmony of nature
manifest in human being.

Meanwhile, scientists spend their
life proving life comes from nothing
and in doing so, more or less, they
become nothing in greater innate
instinctual and intuitive POTENTIAL
REAL HUMAN NATURE
IN SIMPLE BLISS AND
JOY; not unlike a cat
rolling around in the
sand of a noon day
sun; or hugging
the grass in the
light of a
full moon
night.

LIFE IS POETRY, DANCE
AND SONG; TRULY ART.
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
AND done to the exclusion
of life is well; unwell; just plain
REAL FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE
INSANITY.

But it takes nurturing parents;
a village of caring people;
and a life spent connecting
to other flesh and blood
humans barefoot on
sand and naked
free under the
Sun of God;
to have
any frigging
clue; what I am
even speaking of here;

In fact, science suggests
that there is NO THERAPY
THAT will work for a child
not properly nurtured in
touchY feelY love the
first two years
of life.

But don't tell parents
with their nose stuck in
their electronic devices
that the 'Refrigerator
Mother Theory' is
A REAL DEAL;
AND PERHAPS,
the worst thing
that can happen
to any human
being anywhere
in terms of
A GREAT SUCCESSFUL
LIFE OR MISERY AND
SUFFERING LIFELONG;
in ways of bullying other
folks; addiction of all
kinds; and just plain
human hell come truth;

WheRe the chalice of
potential love of human
being is empty, and never
'FEELED' enough to suffice
continuous joy in living life
and connecting to other
flesh and blood humans
and THE REST OF NATURE
AKA
GOD.

Believe it or not; it's truth;
tough love truth; but
never the less,
truth; and
worth
changing
for greater human
potential of simple
joys of life if;
at all
possible...

Take it with a grain of sand
if one likes; but that may
be just what one's
feet are starving
for; in terms
of loving Nature
as all of GOD.

American Indians rarely
doubt this truth;
and neither does
the same blood
of the Sioux
dancers and
Cherokee
artists who
live in my
ancestral
BLOOD

NOW.

Yada, yada,yada...



guzzle
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03 Jun 2015, 2:30 pm

pcuser wrote:
Yada, yada,yada...


So... are you gonna explain what the tool comment was all about?
Or is sarcastic drivel your default setting?



Oldavid
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03 Jun 2015, 5:01 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Oldavid wrote:
Yair, well, there's plenty of evidence to dismiss the claims of the Materialist/Atheist lobby but I guess what you're saying in a roundabout way is that evidence doesn't count.

Very cute. Tell me, why do you not have to justify your rejection of the myriad of gods humankind have conjured up though the ages, but I have to justify my rejection of your particular ones claims, or accept him by default? If holy texts have any claim to be revealed truths, then there are much more impressive ones out there.
It depends on what you mean by "God", as Lintar said above. For the purposes of this argument "God" is a necessary uncaused first cause... and your straw-man gods are not relevant to the argument.
Quote:
But just out of curiosity, what would this plethora of evidence be?
Go back and read for yourself, I'm tired of repeating myself.
Oldavid wrote:
Atheism declares that it can/does know that no supreme being exists, summarily dismissing any evidence to the contrary. As such it falls squarely inside the faith, belief system, superstition, religion courtyard.
Quote:
I'm glad I get to be told what my position is by someone in the opposite camp. Thank you. As for this quote; even if that were true, you realize, of course, that you're asking me to prove a negative? "Evidence to the contrary of "no supreme being exists""? Are you familiar with the term "null hypothesis"? It's what yours is not.
I'm not asking you to "prove" anything. It is simply a statement of observations. You're still at it... trying to drown the issue in a sea of red herrings.

That your ideology is sustained by irrelevancies and absurdities should be a clue that it is detached from reality.
Oldavid wrote:
That many organic molecules can be synthesised with cleverly contrived apparatus and input of energy does not indicate that any such processes can, or do, spontaneously occur outside of cleverly contrived apparatus and reaction conditions.

Quote:
I'm sure that said cleverly contrived apparatus being cleverly contrived to contrive the conditions of ancient earth, under which said processes are "fancifully speculated" to have taken place, is entirely irrelevant?
Not even circular reasoning. Back-to-front reasoning! Of course the "conditions of ancient Earth" are assumed to be that which will give you contrived results in a contrived apparatus. This is not science; it's alchemy.