Should Christians ever fight?

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I really hope that my son wouldn't put up with years of physical abuse, as you obviously did. I really don't think that being a doormat is quite what Christ intended.

Okay, we all know that the old testament is full of gore and violence. I was getting at the New Testament, and whether Christians should be completely peaceful, or whether there would be reasons to fight, and what they might be.

The Crusades, while fought in the name of Christianity, were hardly a Christian undertaking. Similarly the Iraq invasion, which was labeled a Crusade.

In a lot of evangelical churches, they seem to worship the USA and the American Flag as part of their religion. For a lot of them, joining the American military is something wonderful.

Other churches, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, won't participate in the military and won't pledge allegiance to the American flag at all, on the grounds that it amounts to violating one of the ten commandments (i.e., the one concerning the worship of graven images).

A lot of evangelicals have the USA and the UK figuring into Biblical prophecy concerning the end times. For the Jehovah's Witnesses, they expect the Final Judgement to come at any moment, just like the First Century christians did.

I actually see America as being referred to in Daniel 2:42-43, but as long as America fights in favor of Israel it will be worthy of some respect, perhaps similarly as the respect given to Oscar Schindler more or less.

So, Christians should fight on behalf of Israel?

Yes.

Well what are we waitin' 'fer? We got us some Hezbollah sunsabeeches to shoot!

Well, I think that you've got it completely, utterly, and totally wrong, and may consequently be slated for perdition.

During the first century, as everyone knows, Jerusalem was sacked and the Holy Land utterly depopulated by the Romans. Did any Christians fight on behalf of Judea at the time? Possibly. But, if you read the Gospels, you get the impression that Christians tended to maintain the opinion that the Jews had it coming.

Not many Christians speak glowingly about the Crusades any more.

But, what we have in modern times is somewhat similar. Instead of the land being turned into a Christian feudal fiefdom, it is now a modern Jewish society, but which may eventually be overthrown again.

If you are indeed Christian, then you should be praying fervently for Jews and Muslims alike to know God's love through Christ.

We've had a decade of war in Afghanistan and Iraq, and, as far as I know, not a single soul saved from Islam's error.

I'd pray for your soul, but I'm too busy with other things at the moment.

Prayer is great, inaction when action is necessary is not.

Let's assume for the moment that America is engaged in what amounts to be another kind of Crusade. God's promise that His chosen people have a homeland (specifically in Canaan) hasn't changed, nor has the Bible changed. What HAS changed is how we read and understand the Bible as well as our perception of other peoples. If God has singled out the people of Israel, then we do well to ensure that they are restored to their homeland. This isn't the same thing as deporting African-American former slaves, who are really more American than African. Those who are returning to Zion are doing so because they WANT to. If we are in a Crusade now, then we do well to secure the land for its intended inhabitants. I can't even begin to imagine how fickle we look to the rest of the world, especially Israel, when we go from one president supporting Israel to another who says "Well, OK, but..."

Also, along with how we perceive other people, our perception of fighting and winning wars has also changed. We did well with the same old tactics up until Korea which we fought to a stalemate, and then Vietnam which COULD HAVE BEEN a winnable war had the south cooperated and had we not fought a limited war, not to mention the Viet Cong were MUCH more adept at winning friends in the south than we were.

Desert Storm, I thought, was TOO limited, the idea really of just getting Hussein out of Kuwait. Deposing Hussein a few years later was a brilliant stroke of military might by "Dubya" and his military advisors, not to mention Afghanistan. I think more people are glad we were involved than those who aren't, and supposedly we're getting out of Iraq next year--we'll see how it goes.

We've been largely more concerned with protecting our friends and winning enemies over to our side, and had we fought the same kinds of wars we fought 50 and 60 years ago, Iraq and Afghanistan (had we still been successful) would probably have all become ocean front property by now--not to mention perhaps millions of us Americans would have been conscripted and killed in the process of making it so (not to mention the small possibility of a stray nuke or two making its way to one of our major cities, compliments of the Russians). As it stands, too many western nations are afraid of maintaining a presence in those countries with us, but we seem to be doing relatively fine on our own.

I gather that you're not really as committed to Christ as you might imagine yourself to be.

You're underestimating the power of prayer.

Since everybody has four cheeks, in all probability when they each have been slapped Christians should be permitted mayhem.

James 2:14-25

wait, that's not in the bible?!? they dropped the ball on that one.

So, go to Israel and Palestine, and proclaim the good news that Jesus is the Son of God.

James doesn't say that Christians, or anyone, should fight on behalf of Israel.

In addressing the Jews, Jesus says (Matthew 23): "You snakes and sons of snakes! How do you expect to escape from being condemned to Hell?...the punishment for all innocent men will fall on you, from the murder of innocent Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Berechiah...I tell you indeed, the punishment for all these murders will fall on the people of this day!"

Matthew presents Pontius Pilate and the Romans as completely innocent of Jesus' death. The Jews say "Let the punishment for his death fall on us and on our children!"

So, if you want to do some good works to demonstrate your faith, convert Jews and Moslems to Christianity. Never mind fighting on behalf of Israel. That is just plain silly and blasphemous. Plus, you might get hurt.

Up to now I have been impressed with AngelRho's mental qualities although his conclusions have struck me as quite weird. But anyone who describes G.W.Bush's move into the military farce in Iraq and Afghanistan as brilliant is totally disqualified from further consideration.

Misquoting in an attempt to cherry-pick much?