Hitler and Aspergers Syndrome (Poll and Discussion).

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yup.

would not be a good thing if this kind of speculation made it to the press.

i have wondered if some of the kids responsible for the epidemic of school shootings might have been suicidal aspies bullied over the edge. i am probably wrong and hope i am, but more importantly: this would not be much of a good thing to talk about publicly. and so i keep my mouth shut. sometimes i know when to do so.

Adolf Hitler, as portayed in the movie Downfall, appeared more an extreme case of borderline personality disorder with malignant narcissism than psychopathy.

I think it is a good thing to talk about publically, and I would agree that the possibility of AS for school shooters, particularly Columnbine, is plausible.

I used to fantasize about leading my own "revolts" in school. I'd never have actually acted on my feelings though or tried to make it a reality.

Then again, I can't say wether my getting bullied or my social outcastism was any more or less severe than what some other kids who "reacted" have had to face.

i just mean nothing good can come of a public ignorant of autism equating AS with violence.

if the result of such speculation was a tremendous importance placed on early diagnosis, that would be another thing entirely.

Let 'the Public' think what they will. Why mislead them by letting them think that all with AS are gentle little lambs? Give them the complete unfiltered story.

I'm kind of tired actually of seeing the perception of AS individuals being as soft little teddy bears. I am not this way. Then again, I don't advertise or tell anyone in my day-to-day life that I have Aspergers. I see no need to bring it up.

Its entirely possible that in our highly social society and service economy, festooned with mandatory institutions like public school, that individuals with AS who are constantly thrust into complex social situations would begin to develop fierce hatreds, irrational paranoia, and that sort of thing.

We live in a society that is now dominated by service-sector jobs, especially for new employees entering the work force. Your social skills will make or break you. People with AS are handicapped in this regard. So naturally one with AS could possibly become very disillusioned with their surroundings and very negative about their prospects.

This kind of hopelessness and helplessness can possibly create extreme feelings and desires of social revisionism.

I think that Hitler went through this sort of thing. Hitler desired to go to Vienna to try his luck as an Artist as a boy............. He arrived at Vienna and never found a comfortable niche there................ Hitler went to war in WWI, but despite having a good combat record, he didn't really get on with his fellow soldiers and began to drift away from his fellow soldiers as they began to develop pacifist feelings. Hitler's fervid nationalism put him increasingly at odds with his mates. I think he began to feel more and more out of place in the Army as lots of soldiers (especially in a Bavarian regiment,) began to find anti-war sentiments.

(The Bavarians had a reputation as being very poor and undisciplined soldiers when Bavaria was still semi-autonomous and contributing its independent forces to the Imperial German Army. The Bavarian soldiers as a whole were regarded as extremely careless and soft and were regarded poorly by the Prussians as undisciplined Catholics and poor soldiers.)

From what I've read, Hitler also had a terrible time of it in school as far as fitting in with his classmates, his studies, and functioning well under his teachers. I'm not sure how abusive his father was to him, but Hitler and his father definitely didn't see eye to eye, as Hitler had his fantasies about being an artist, and Alois Hitler had a very simple vision for Hitler of Hitler merely going to the vocational school and just taking over his forgettable civil-servant job.

When Hitler was a teenager, instead of getting to go to the classical high-school to follow an intellectual curriculum, his father Alois sent Adolf to the Realschule, which was like a vocational technical school. For someone like Hitler, who desperately wanted to study the arts, I can see how being forced into a technical environment would be disgusting for him and unpalatable.............. it was.

sure. but if you're murdering people (whether one classmates or millions of people in gas chambers) there is also mental illness present. no good could come of public discourse that does not make the distinction, when examining instances of such behavior, between autism and mental illness. autism does not render anyone incapable of seeing the value in human life.

public discourse about AS should be responsible discourse.

Hitler's as a boy once tried running away, and was so badly beaten by his father that he (Adolf) was comatose for days. Obviously, with an abusive monster like this for a father, it's no wonder he turned out like he did. On top of that, brain damage dealt to him by his father in that specific incidence is a good possibility.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'm not justifying school shootings or genocides, but I think that AS can create a base personality that can react to outside influences and thus create these kinds of results. I think with AS, if the outside bullying and social pressures get too overwhelming and unchecked, the AS personality could just become terribly scarred and warped and be capable of many terrible reactions.

I think the thing about AS is that you seem normal enough on the outside to get by from day to day without anyone realizing that there is something wrong until it is too late and you are stuck too deeply in a bad situation. I feel a high-functioning AS like Hitler possbily was can or could fool people for a long time by superficially high-functioning behavior.

There would definitely be other factors besides AS for cases like the Columbine shooters, but I think AS could hugely contribute towards the personalities that create these tragedies.



Right, I knew Hitler's father beat him. I'm just not sure how frequent or severe it was. I'm sure 110 years, ago, beatings and child-abuse were very common and socially acceptable. I have no doubt it was traumatic for Adolph. I don't think it was terribly unique to him though.

You should check out this movie on youtube Hitler the Rise of Evil With any movie, it has its inaccuracies and all of that but its worth watching and gives pretty good insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79oY3UUv ... re=related

The beginning is especially good I think.

I think alot of Hitler's hatred of the Jews possibly came from his non-sterotypically-Germanic look, his short stature. and dark hair, and mabye people thinking that Hitler himself was a Jew.

I've posted this elsewhere in WP, but DNA testing was recently conducted among Hitler's known relatives in Europe and America, and the results show a degree of Jewish and North African ancestry. On top of that, a History Channel documentary on Hitler reveal the clearly Jewish name of Solomon in his family tree.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Obviously, sir, you have no taste in art! His art is inspiring and marvellous.

So True ! !!

ROFLAMO ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

You imply a motive on my tastes that there isn't. I like what I like because there is quality I perceive to be there. Just because you have trouble picking up on the spaces that I see filled isn't my issue.

Again, you're claiming elitism just purely from the sake of having a limited repertoire. I went to school for classical music and studied music theory much more in-depth than you've bothered to observe casually. My impression is that even a basic twelve-tone device would be suspect to you depending on the author's nationality rather less something more complex piece like Berg's Wozzeck or something legitimately complex beyond current notation such as Crumb's Black Angels.

My repertoire is quite comprehensive but I'm not afraid to call an eyesore and eyesore, even if said eyesore was created by an 'oppressed' individual(s.)

I've self-actualized to and past the point where I can simply appreciate quality art and music for what it is, and call out dreck when I see it or hear it, even if such dreck is superficially avant-garde.

Still, anyone who'se #1 book is "A Confederacy of Dunces" is OK in my book. Congrats ! !!

A Confederacy of Dunces is one of my top all-time favorite books. It's a shame more books aren't bold enough to incorporate multiple plot-lines into one story.

As far as the rest: as anywhere will have it, there's no accounting for taste. However, I will not have my taste challenged on the basis of lack of skill or education. I may be rusty in my theory but I'm more than confident enough in my ability and my natural level of music comprehension that I can defend any point...including a recent trend of mine to look for and enjoy music that bends beyond the current accepted tastes of what may be "in tune" or not. Unfortunately, there is no formalized general music theory for eight and quarter-tones so it's something that I simply enjoy when and where it exists as a natural extension of music beyond what most will currently accept.

^ I took the liberty of listening to both pieces you mentioned (crumb's angels and Berg's Wozzeck.) Sometimes I feel like modern artists do things just for the sake of being different, without much impact behind their work behind shock value or novelty. Those pieces aren't the kind of thing I could just listen to and actually enjoy. Anyway, I don't quite 'get it,' but I guess I just have more conventional tastes in music. If it music does it for you and you find value in it, than more power to you. You may see things in those pieces that I don't, I'm sure.

My preference when it comest to classical music seems to generally be for the more understated pieces that don't try and do to much besides get to the meat of the composition. As Jeffrey Jones would say, some pieces have 'too many notes.' (chuckle)

Chopin, Debussy, and Rachmaninoff are my preferred composers. I also like a few modern score composers like Randy Edelman(Gettysburg Soundtrack.)

Some of the more minimally adventurous classical composers like Stravinsky, Bartok, Khachaturian, Prokofiev, Shostakovitch, and a few others might give you a bridge to more modern music.