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CaptainTrips222
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26 Oct 2010, 1:18 am

auntblabby wrote:
they are a convenient target for the haters. if they didn't exist, some other color or status of humanity would suffice as targets of hate. human nature being the nasty thing it is, i don't know when this endemic need to hate will all end, or where.


With all the hatred towards hispanics here in Arizona, you kinda forget about the blacks.



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26 Oct 2010, 1:38 am

The target of emnity is often The Other. He who is not of the hive is the Hated Enemy.

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26 Oct 2010, 7:44 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Another key factor is the areas in which these people come from. They are not born with the same advantages and often become stuck.


What advantages are those? I'm white and I wasn't born into wealth and neither were most people that I've ever known born into wealth nor had advantages from birth.



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26 Oct 2010, 9:29 am

Why are black people so hated?

Well, I'm not a racist--let that be said!! !

I'm really not.

But I do have a few things to say in regards to many of those who would label me as one based on certain things.

I live in the Mississippi Delta, which is probably the most culturally and socially "Southern" area of the United States. People who live here have an attitude distinctly different from anywhere else in the country. I grew up closer to Jackson, MS, in the "hills," and spent time with people all the way from the coast to the extreme northern part of the state, like Oxford and the Memphis area (where the Delta begins). Compared with the rest of the state, the Delta region might as well be it's own separate, free state. In terms of culture and society, it already is.

And if you were driving through the area and your car was going to break down, THIS is where you want to break down because people are nice and helpful to the point you may decide to stick around a while.

All that in contrast to the cliched "Yankee" assessment of who/what we are. ALL southerners are bigots. Simply not true. The negative attitudes I've seen of whites towards blacks where I live IS somewhat justified, and to make racially motivated statements around here is less often reflective of outright hatred and more often a reflection of the reality of the Delta.

For instance: Blacks in the Delta have maintained attitudes of resentment towards whites for more than 50 years, and nothing has happened post-civil-rights-era to change that attitude. Blacks enjoy the same freedoms and opportunity, more so in some cases, as anyone else, and the continued resentment is no longer justified. Now, we may agree that they are "owed" welfare benefits on the basis that the former status quo has prevented them from actively working or seeking better jobs. But that doesn't excuse their children.

It is TRUE in the Mississippi Delta that ignorance and sexual abuse are rampant among the black population here. A long history of absentee fathers has created a vicious cycle of pre-teen and teenage parents totally dependent on welfare while the fathers, IF they know who the fathers even are, have no responsibility whatsoever. I had the misfortune of trying to help a lady in bankruptcy proceedings who was plainly affected by long-term drug abuse and who had 15 children living with her and her grandmother. 15 KIDS!! ! Keep in mind that people like this are fully aware of the money involved, and that's the very reason they do it. Having another baby IS a job to them, and a paying one at that.

And that's just what the federal government has done to them.

The other is the transmission of cultural values that are incompatible with the values of society at large. That has to do with education. I worked in a "predominantly minority" school for a couple of years. I was horrified that the main goal of the school for which I worked was "tech prep" programs that were put in place only for the sake of getting "trickle down" money from the state DOE. The logic here is the most twisted crap I've ever heard: Big corporations look at school performances as the basis for choosing to locate to an area because school performance is a good indicator of the skills/abilities of the people living there. Well, that may well be. But the attractiveness of an area for a business setting up shop is not really the willingness and ability of the people LIVING there, but how attractive it is for people with willingness and ability to MOVE there. People are NOT moving to the Delta. They're getting out. In droves. Tech prep sites are not really preparing minorities for anything except jobs they'll never even get to apply for. And that only works to perpetuate the ignorance of the local population.

What they SHOULD be doing is instilling the intrinsic values and motivations for learning and pointing them in the direction of achieving their goals. They need skills such as better performance in standardized tests. I'm not all that bright, and I don't mind admitting it. But even I pulled a 27 on my ACT composite. Many students I worked with barely pulled high enough to get into community college. So when I'd ask a student when she could take the ACT again, she'd say she couldn't because you can only take it one time. WHAT??? Who told you that? The school counselor. I mean, there's nothing I can say to that! Horrifying.

The first time I took the ACT was in 7th grade, and I scored high enough for at least community college. Sure, I had a good education, but I took the exam enough times to understand what was going on and increased my scores through practice. Why aren't these students practicing? I'm guessing it's due to a self-perpetuated culture of ignorance and those, black or white, who don't care enough to actually fix the problem when we DO have the influence to make a difference. But it's hardly something you can fault white people for! These teachers and counselors are knowledgeable and equipped to make a difference, but they don't care. Leave the status quo alone. It's easier that way.

Screw that.

A young black girl in my class asked me about a public-supported arts school that I'd mentioned in class. Long story short, I asked her to show me some pictures she'd drawn, wrote the best letter of recommendation I could, and helped her assemble her portfolio (I'm a musician, not an artist, btw). She got accepted to the school, and I haven't heard from her since. And you know what the school counselor said to me about it? She was upset because I got rid of a student who could have had a positive influence on her classmates.

Give me a break.

I did them all a favor--the student, obviously, for getting her a better education, and the school by making them look good by sending a "product of their high standards of education" to a school for exceptional children. That ought to encourage more teachers (as well as students) to step up to the plate and raise the bar of achievement.

It is not the "white man" holding you back here. I'm trying to follow my conscience and provide the best possible education I can. It is rather a product of rural, ignorant thinking that holds them back. And until parents start waking up and actually caring about what is going on in the schools and push the kids to reach just one rung on the ladder higher, this WILL NOT CHANGE.

Finally, de facto segregation still exists here, and I think it's because of the disparity in education, work ethic, and moral/cultural values. There are places in town that I am not to drive through. Is it because my white neighbors told me not to? Is it because I have to show a pass to go into these neighborhoods? Neither. It's because I'm not welcome there. By contrast, much of the fear and ignorance surrounding blacks moving into "upscale" neighborhoods has largely vanished. When I DID live in an upscale neighborhood, a black family bought a corner lot near my house and built something NICE on it. Did that cause everyone to put their properties up for sale? No. My family got hit hard by the recession and had to relocate to something we could afford. Our neighbors two doors down were strongly affected by a recent flood and could no longer take the risk. Another moved to a better opportunity in another part of the country. Racial demographics were irrelevant, and the housing turnover in the area probably would have happened anyway. Whites aren't turning blacks away. They choose to live where they wish, and we can't force them out of predominantly black neighborhoods if they do not which to do so. Besides, de facto segregation is not inherently a bad thing if it encourages corporate solidarity. The blacks here have a cultural identity and maybe even a need to stick together. If segregation is vital to the community, what good does it do to disrupt that? I could, for instance, by a run-down house in one of the historic areas of town, fix it up, fence it in, and drive up property values and taxes such that I could force blacks in the area to move out. Is that really a good thing to do? Is it the right thing to do?

Now, I've said all that to say this:

They don't call it "the great white north" for nothing. Northerners, and indeed much of the population that is removed from southern issues, can't possibly have any clue as to what the attitudes are like here. When I lived in upstate New York, people would ask me about certain comments I'd make from time to time about what it's like growing up in the south--they assumed I'd be a typical bigoted southerner, and I broke through a lot of the stereotypes they assigned me. They would tell me that people generally don't make the distinction between black and white--people are just people. Well, that's the way it SHOULD be, and I agree. But northerners don't seem to have a concept of what it's like and thus cannot possibly understand where all the animosity between southern races comes from. Here's a hint: It's not from white people anymore. But since white northerners aren't directly confronted with the realities of living in the south, especially the Delta, it's easy for them to point fingers and lay the blame at the feet of white southerners. At one point in history, this certainly would have been justified. But many blacks in the Delta are NOT working to defeat the status quo. Why? I don't know. Maybe they like it that way. But no matter what may have happened in the past, we've moved beyond that. If they find something unacceptable about their present condition, they should be the ones working to improve it. Blaming whites for what black communities choose to do/not do is unjustified at the present time. It would rather be a revealing task to see whether a white northerner would still maintain that position if he or she was confronted with the same situation. It's easy to point and blame when you are part of a comfortable majority. Put your money where your mouth is, and you'll likely change your tune.



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26 Oct 2010, 11:56 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Another key factor is the areas in which these people come from. They are not born with the same advantages and often become stuck.


What advantages are those? I'm white and I wasn't born into wealth and neither were most people that I've ever known born into wealth nor had advantages from birth.


Generally speaking, white children get better schooling, are passed over less for jobs as teens, and don't experience as much racism or discrimination. All three of these work together to create more advantages.

I was born into a poor white family. I know it can be tough for us white folks, but that doesn't change the fact that we do have more advantages from birth just by having light skin.


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26 Oct 2010, 12:06 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Well, I'm not a racist--let that be said!! !

I'm really not.

Very seldom do you hear someone who isn't a racist even bother to deny it.

Quote:
The negative attitudes I've seen of whites towards blacks where I live IS somewhat justified,

So racism is OK because blacks actually are inferior human beings?

Quote:
For instance: Blacks in the Delta have maintained attitudes of resentment towards whites for more than 50 years, and nothing has happened post-civil-rights-era to change that attitude. Blacks enjoy the same freedoms and opportunity, more so in some cases, as anyone else, and the continued resentment is no longer justified.

Sweeping generalization of an entire ethnic group.

And even if your generalization is valid, are you surprised that a black person living in the South, where racism is still rife, would be resentful toward whites?

Quote:
The other is the transmission of cultural values that are incompatible with the values of society at large. That has to do with education. I worked in a "predominantly minority" school for a couple of years. I was horrified that the main goal of the school for which I worked was "tech prep" programs that were put in place only for the sake of getting "trickle down" money from the state DOE.

So you provide the black students with horrible, poorly-run schools and then blame them for being undereducated?


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26 Oct 2010, 12:29 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Another key factor is the areas in which these people come from. They are not born with the same advantages and often become stuck.


What advantages are those? I'm white and I wasn't born into wealth and neither were most people that I've ever known born into wealth nor had advantages from birth.


Generally speaking, white children get better schooling, are passed over less for jobs as teens, and don't experience as much racism or discrimination. All three of these work together to create more advantages.

I was born into a poor white family. I know it can be tough for us white folks, but that doesn't change the fact that we do have more advantages from birth just by having light skin.


It's tough to grow up without a shipload of money, period.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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26 Oct 2010, 12:54 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Another key factor is the areas in which these people come from. They are not born with the same advantages and often become stuck.


What advantages are those? I'm white and I wasn't born into wealth and neither were most people that I've ever known born into wealth nor had advantages from birth.


Generally speaking, white children get better schooling, are passed over less for jobs as teens, and don't experience as much racism or discrimination. All three of these work together to create more advantages.

I was born into a poor white family. I know it can be tough for us white folks, but that doesn't change the fact that we do have more advantages from birth just by having light skin.


It's tough to grow up without a shipload of money, period.


I didn't say it wasn't. I simply pointed out reasons as to why it's tougher for the black community. I find it strange that you're trying to discredit my facts.


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26 Oct 2010, 12:56 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Why are black people so hated?

Well, I'm not a racist--let that be said!! !

I'm really not.

But ...


Here we go, a whole buch of racist crap is gonna follow. Sure enough, you didn't disappoint.

That's kind of like when someone says "no offense, but..." you know you're about to be completely insulted.



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26 Oct 2010, 1:20 pm

Orwell wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Well, I'm not a racist--let that be said!! !

I'm really not.

Very seldom do you hear someone who isn't a racist even bother to deny it.

Quote:
The negative attitudes I've seen of whites towards blacks where I live IS somewhat justified,

So racism is OK because blacks actually are inferior human beings?

Quote:
For instance: Blacks in the Delta have maintained attitudes of resentment towards whites for more than 50 years, and nothing has happened post-civil-rights-era to change that attitude. Blacks enjoy the same freedoms and opportunity, more so in some cases, as anyone else, and the continued resentment is no longer justified.

Sweeping generalization of an entire ethnic group.

And even if your generalization is valid, are you surprised that a black person living in the South, where racism is still rife, would be resentful toward whites?

Quote:
The other is the transmission of cultural values that are incompatible with the values of society at large. That has to do with education. I worked in a "predominantly minority" school for a couple of years. I was horrified that the main goal of the school for which I worked was "tech prep" programs that were put in place only for the sake of getting "trickle down" money from the state DOE.

So you provide the black students with horrible, poorly-run schools and then blame them for being undereducated?


Orwell, you just proved my point. You have NO idea what the situation is really like. And it doesn't sound like you really read much of what I wrote, only select bits and pieces of it to suggest that I was saying something that I didn't say.

Sadly, your attitude fits what I perceive to be the majority of those living away from the south. It's easy to point fingers and place blame when you aren't the one affected.

Regarding black students and poorly-run schools: The problem I experienced while teaching was that administrators were only REALLY worried about their own paychecks. "Tech Prep" is pushed as a means of educating students for the skills to enter the workforce immediately after graduating high school. It sounds GREAT, and if you have no interest in pursuing college, it seems like a great idea. The REALITY, though, is the REAL opportunities only exist for the better educated, meaning college-educated. Tech prep sites like the one I worked for pay lip service to preparing students for jobs. The problem, though, is when you live in an agrarian economy like the Delta, there ARE no jobs. Greenville's heyday was really back when there was heavy maritime manufacturing still in the city, and they packed up and moved up the river. Along with increased police corruption and the illegal drug trade, Greenville failed to attract the kinds of businesses to keep the economy going, and with the economy fewer southern literary intellectual types were attracted to the area. In just the last 5 years I've lived here, there has been increased activity south of the city, widening the racial divide between the inner city, largely black population, and the affluent south. It's not that whites have given up. It's more that the black population has given up. It's heartbreaking, but it's reality, and I don't care what your skin color is. And as such affluent people either do what they have to do to live here (move further south) or just get out, taking any wealth and positive influence they may have with them. Losing everything when the economy failed was the best thing that happened to me and my family, forcing us to move out of the city limits and into the trailer park, alongside hardworking minorities such as blacks and latinos who DO look out for their neighbors and don't judge them on their skin color. Sure, we have some real "characters" out here in the trailers, but it's better living here away from the (sub)urban blight of the city, along with their hypocrisy and spoiled kids.

The issue over school is their unrealistic focus on the money. The plain fact is that if teachers are left alone to do their jobs, they can prepare kids for much more than "just getting a job." But like I said, they aren't REALLY preparing the kids for anything other than being welfare baby-factories. And they're doing nothing (and neither are the parents) to break the cultural bonds that keep them where they are. They are used to hearing that they are worthless and the white man can't be trusted. But it isn't the "white man" that taught them that. It's their own parents.

When I would ask my older students about their future plans, it always involved either the nearest community college, the GHEC (local extension), or one of the three "historically black" institutions nearby or in Jackson. I ran into a former student once who SWORE he'd go to Tougaloo, and I was thrilled when he told me that he was at Southern Miss. If you aren't in the know, Hattiesburg is one of the most culturally and intellectually diverse cities in Mississippi, Southern Miss being one of the more academically exclusive schools in the state. They actually have more out-of-state students than any other Mississippi institution. So it's a big deal that he broke the stereotype and chose to study somewhere in which he'll be exposed to a lot of different things he'd never get in one of the stereotypical schools. There's nothing wrong with "historically black" universities. I just see a problem with ANY student whose ambition is limited by what he sees as circumstance.

They won't reach higher because no one TELLS them to, not their teachers, and not their parents. If you have a burning desire to work as a custodian all your life, FINE. But don't sell yourself short because that's all anyone ever told you would be possible for you. Those things are things you have to find out for yourself, and higher education is the single best way we have at the moment to expose ALL people of all races to the world that lies beyond their home. If the message of perpetual worthlessness and despair of life comes from white people for racial motivations, then that's one thing. But the fact that the message comes from within their own culture and within their own FAMILIES means the problem is much deeper than a white vs. black issue. They ARE their own worst enemies.

If the black community were an isolated community, then perhaps I wouldn't be so vocal about it. But, inevitably, people have to work together. And that's where the friction starts. My wife can attest to the numbers of black clients come by her workplace or call and DEMAND that she "get my check." Ever try negotiating with the Social Security Administration? It's not fun. While I was between schools, I worked for a particularly liberal lawyer in which a client was genuinely entitled to SSI disability, and the settlement involved was a HUGE sum of money. My final task was to type a 30-page legal brief, complete with references to legal precedents, detailing this one case. It's a lot of work. And I've known of cases that take a year or more to close. So you don't have a right to walk into an attorney's office and expect miracles. If you can't be patient and cooperate, SSA is perfectly content to let you rot without paying you one red cent. And it's this attitude, especially with people who don't really deserve it or aren't even eligible, that really raises the ire of my wife and her employer.

Day-to-day dealings are not exactly friendly. Take your local McDonald's, for instance. Roll up at one, order a cheeseburger, and someone will give you a very unfriendly "Thank you drive around" and then scramble to get the next order in within 10 seconds or less. First window, same person will take your money, throw your change at you while taking the next order, and then you get to the next window where someone else throws your food at you while waiting impatiently for the next customer.

A running joke where I live is there are two McDonald's: The "white" McDonald's at the edge of town and the "ghetto" McDonald's. Now, the "white" McDonald's is anything but, but it's a running gag because white employees HAVE been spotted working there, ALL employees are friendly to the customers, and more customers actually WANT to drive to the edge of town to eat at McDonald's there. The "ghetto" McD's is the exact opposite. You put in your order and pray. I've often considered ordering the cheapest thing on the menu just to see if I'd actually get more food when they mix my order up with someone else's.

All points north of Nashville are not like that. When I'd drive from Mississippi to New York, I'd eat at any number of McD's when stopping for food and fuel or just to rest. The men's bathrooms were immaculate. Service with a smile? Oh, ya, you betcha. So when can *I* work here?

It's COMPLETELY different. And there are reasons for that. It has nothing to do with someone being superior/inferior, but rather the culture of which you are a product. Attitudes can ALWAYS change, and it's evident what the prevailing attitudes are where ever you go. Southern attitudes of blacks towards whites HAS improved over where it was a few decades ago--I've even noticed differences in the last 5 years I've lived here. But it is a SLOW progression as academic standards change and improve and as more and more southern blacks take risks and actually get to know the world outside their own. As long as they retain that outdated resentment towards us, there will always be "us vs. them" mentality instead of just "us."

When I was in "North Country" music school working on my master's degree, I was exposed to an even more ethnically diverse atmosphere than back home--more asians, especially, eastern Europeans, and a few "African Americans." What I saw that REALLY was an eye-opener for me, a white southerner, was a young black lady who was playing Appalachian-style fiddle music. New York "yankee" mentality is largely devoid of distinctions, and I think that largely has to do with the fact that minorities generally do not tend to push their attitudes on others, possibly because they aren't taught to. In the south, we are forced to reckon with racial distinctions, even when it's not fair. White prejudice in the south, for the most part, has largely moved on. So if WE aren't oppressing a minority, then who is? No one. It's the prevailing, outdated negative outlook that binds minorities here. I can't say 100% who is to blame for THAT, but I do know firsthand that parents and schools are NOT helping.



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26 Oct 2010, 1:24 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Another key factor is the areas in which these people come from. They are not born with the same advantages and often become stuck.


What advantages are those? I'm white and I wasn't born into wealth and neither were most people that I've ever known born into wealth nor had advantages from birth.


Generally speaking, white children get better schooling, are passed over less for jobs as teens, and don't experience as much racism or discrimination. All three of these work together to create more advantages.

I was born into a poor white family. I know it can be tough for us white folks, but that doesn't change the fact that we do have more advantages from birth just by having light skin.


It's tough to grow up without a shipload of money, period.


I didn't say it wasn't. I simply pointed out reasons as to why it's tougher for the black community. I find it strange that you're trying to discredit my facts.


I'm trying to discredit your facts?



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26 Oct 2010, 1:48 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Orwell wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Well, I'm not a racist--let that be said!! !

I'm really not.

Very seldom do you hear someone who isn't a racist even bother to deny it.

Quote:
The negative attitudes I've seen of whites towards blacks where I live IS somewhat justified,

So racism is OK because blacks actually are inferior human beings?

Quote:
For instance: Blacks in the Delta have maintained attitudes of resentment towards whites for more than 50 years, and nothing has happened post-civil-rights-era to change that attitude. Blacks enjoy the same freedoms and opportunity, more so in some cases, as anyone else, and the continued resentment is no longer justified.

Sweeping generalization of an entire ethnic group.

And even if your generalization is valid, are you surprised that a black person living in the South, where racism is still rife, would be resentful toward whites?

Quote:
The other is the transmission of cultural values that are incompatible with the values of society at large. That has to do with education. I worked in a "predominantly minority" school for a couple of years. I was horrified that the main goal of the school for which I worked was "tech prep" programs that were put in place only for the sake of getting "trickle down" money from the state DOE.

So you provide the black students with horrible, poorly-run schools and then blame them for being undereducated?


Orwell, you just proved my point. You have NO idea what the situation is really like. And it doesn't sound like you really read much of what I wrote, only select bits and pieces of it to suggest that I was saying something that I didn't say.

Sadly, your attitude fits what I perceive to be the majority of those living away from the south. It's easy to point fingers and place blame when you aren't the one affected.

Regarding black students and poorly-run schools: The problem I experienced while teaching was that administrators were only REALLY worried about their own paychecks. "Tech Prep" is pushed as a means of educating students for the skills to enter the workforce immediately after graduating high school. It sounds GREAT, and if you have no interest in pursuing college, it seems like a great idea. The REALITY, though, is the REAL opportunities only exist for the better educated, meaning college-educated. Tech prep sites like the one I worked for pay lip service to preparing students for jobs. The problem, though, is when you live in an agrarian economy like the Delta, there ARE no jobs. Greenville's heyday was really back when there was heavy maritime manufacturing still in the city, and they packed up and moved up the river. Along with increased police corruption and the illegal drug trade, Greenville failed to attract the kinds of businesses to keep the economy going, and with the economy fewer southern literary intellectual types were attracted to the area. In just the last 5 years I've lived here, there has been increased activity south of the city, widening the racial divide between the inner city, largely black population, and the affluent south. It's not that whites have given up. It's more that the black population has given up. It's heartbreaking, but it's reality, and I don't care what your skin color is. And as such affluent people either do what they have to do to live here (move further south) or just get out, taking any wealth and positive influence they may have with them. Losing everything when the economy failed was the best thing that happened to me and my family, forcing us to move out of the city limits and into the trailer park, alongside hardworking minorities such as blacks and latinos who DO look out for their neighbors and don't judge them on their skin color. Sure, we have some real "characters" out here in the trailers, but it's better living here away from the (sub)urban blight of the city, along with their hypocrisy and spoiled kids.

The issue over school is their unrealistic focus on the money. The plain fact is that if teachers are left alone to do their jobs, they can prepare kids for much more than "just getting a job." But like I said, they aren't REALLY preparing the kids for anything other than being welfare baby-factories. And they're doing nothing (and neither are the parents) to break the cultural bonds that keep them where they are. They are used to hearing that they are worthless and the white man can't be trusted. But it isn't the "white man" that taught them that. It's their own parents.

When I would ask my older students about their future plans, it always involved either the nearest community college, the GHEC (local extension), or one of the three "historically black" institutions nearby or in Jackson. I ran into a former student once who SWORE he'd go to Tougaloo, and I was thrilled when he told me that he was at Southern Miss. If you aren't in the know, Hattiesburg is one of the most culturally and intellectually diverse cities in Mississippi, Southern Miss being one of the more academically exclusive schools in the state. They actually have more out-of-state students than any other Mississippi institution. So it's a big deal that he broke the stereotype and chose to study somewhere in which he'll be exposed to a lot of different things he'd never get in one of the stereotypical schools. There's nothing wrong with "historically black" universities. I just see a problem with ANY student whose ambition is limited by what he sees as circumstance.

They won't reach higher because no one TELLS them to, not their teachers, and not their parents. If you have a burning desire to work as a custodian all your life, FINE. But don't sell yourself short because that's all anyone ever told you would be possible for you. Those things are things you have to find out for yourself, and higher education is the single best way we have at the moment to expose ALL people of all races to the world that lies beyond their home. If the message of perpetual worthlessness and despair of life comes from white people for racial motivations, then that's one thing. But the fact that the message comes from within their own culture and within their own FAMILIES means the problem is much deeper than a white vs. black issue. They ARE their own worst enemies.

If the black community were an isolated community, then perhaps I wouldn't be so vocal about it. But, inevitably, people have to work together. And that's where the friction starts. My wife can attest to the numbers of black clients come by her workplace or call and DEMAND that she "get my check." Ever try negotiating with the Social Security Administration? It's not fun. While I was between schools, I worked for a particularly liberal lawyer in which a client was genuinely entitled to SSI disability, and the settlement involved was a HUGE sum of money. My final task was to type a 30-page legal brief, complete with references to legal precedents, detailing this one case. It's a lot of work. And I've known of cases that take a year or more to close. So you don't have a right to walk into an attorney's office and expect miracles. If you can't be patient and cooperate, SSA is perfectly content to let you rot without paying you one red cent. And it's this attitude, especially with people who don't really deserve it or aren't even eligible, that really raises the ire of my wife and her employer.

Day-to-day dealings are not exactly friendly. Take your local McDonald's, for instance. Roll up at one, order a cheeseburger, and someone will give you a very unfriendly "Thank you drive around" and then scramble to get the next order in within 10 seconds or less. First window, same person will take your money, throw your change at you while taking the next order, and then you get to the next window where someone else throws your food at you while waiting impatiently for the next customer.

A running joke where I live is there are two McDonald's: The "white" McDonald's at the edge of town and the "ghetto" McDonald's. Now, the "white" McDonald's is anything but, but it's a running gag because white employees HAVE been spotted working there, ALL employees are friendly to the customers, and more customers actually WANT to drive to the edge of town to eat at McDonald's there. The "ghetto" McD's is the exact opposite. You put in your order and pray. I've often considered ordering the cheapest thing on the menu just to see if I'd actually get more food when they mix my order up with someone else's.

All points north of Nashville are not like that. When I'd drive from Mississippi to New York, I'd eat at any number of McD's when stopping for food and fuel or just to rest. The men's bathrooms were immaculate. Service with a smile? Oh, ya, you betcha. So when can *I* work here?

It's COMPLETELY different. And there are reasons for that. It has nothing to do with someone being superior/inferior, but rather the culture of which you are a product. Attitudes can ALWAYS change, and it's evident what the prevailing attitudes are where ever you go. Southern attitudes of blacks towards whites HAS improved over where it was a few decades ago--I've even noticed differences in the last 5 years I've lived here. But it is a SLOW progression as academic standards change and improve and as more and more southern blacks take risks and actually get to know the world outside their own. As long as they retain that outdated resentment towards us, there will always be "us vs. them" mentality instead of just "us."

When I was in "North Country" music school working on my master's degree, I was exposed to an even more ethnically diverse atmosphere than back home--more asians, especially, eastern Europeans, and a few "African Americans." What I saw that REALLY was an eye-opener for me, a white southerner, was a young black lady who was playing Appalachian-style fiddle music. New York "yankee" mentality is largely devoid of distinctions, and I think that largely has to do with the fact that minorities generally do not tend to push their attitudes on others, possibly because they aren't taught to. In the south, we are forced to reckon with racial distinctions, even when it's not fair. White prejudice in the south, for the most part, has largely moved on. So if WE aren't oppressing a minority, then who is? No one. It's the prevailing, outdated negative outlook that binds minorities here. I can't say 100% who is to blame for THAT, but I do know firsthand that parents and schools are NOT helping.


Racism is not defined by geography. The south is no more racist than the north. I can assure you that you'd find some crappy service in Philly and NY too. As far as education goes goes, it is the single most important factor in getting someone out of the ghetto. The urban, low-income, and even rural districts are crap. It's hard to get good teachers here, in part because teachers themselves have prejudiced notions about what it's like to teach low-income and minority kids. Thanks to education reform efforts, this is slowly changing. Charter schools and and teacher prep programs, like Teach For America, are helping to get these kids the education they deserve. States are re-thinking tenure and putting up teacher performanced-based criteria. Every kid can learn, regardless of skin color and/or background, and any teacher who believes their class is a lost cause doesn't deserve the job.

Reinforcing ideas that blacks are "their own worst enemies" falls into the problem category, not the solution category.



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26 Oct 2010, 1:51 pm

Bitching about things on the internet falls into the wasting your time and accomplishing nothing category.


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iamnotaparakeet
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26 Oct 2010, 1:56 pm

Pistonhead wrote:
Bitching about things on the internet falls into the wasting your time and accomplishing nothing category.


Isn't that the entire point of internet forums in general?



adifferentname
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26 Oct 2010, 2:00 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Pistonhead wrote:
Bitching about things on the internet falls into the wasting your time and accomplishing nothing category.


Isn't that the entire point of internet forums in general?


No, they just have a tendency to devolve from day one.



iamnotaparakeet
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26 Oct 2010, 2:08 pm

adifferentname wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Pistonhead wrote:
Bitching about things on the internet falls into the wasting your time and accomplishing nothing category.


Isn't that the entire point of internet forums in general?


No, they just have a tendency to devolve from day one.


Is that really it or is it more likely that people just have a tendency to complain and internet forums serve this purpose extremely well? The notion of just civilly discussing ideas is an unachievable ideal, though it ought to be sought after even though it is impossible.