In your view was Jesus a human or God or both ?

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leejosepho
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22 Nov 2011, 12:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a Lutheran raised by Lutherans, I'll chime in with the traditional view that he was both God and man. Or as John put it, "the Word made flesh."

You say Jesus is God.

But all men or mortal and Jesus is a man therefore Jesus is mortal.
But Jesus is God. Therefore God is mortal.
Bzzzzttt.

But Christ was also human, and could die. He then was resurrected, and thus lives eternally.

How would resurrection into eternal life make one a god?

That's putting the cart before the horse. He was able to become resurrected into eternal life because he was God.

No, saying he was first God would be putting something ahead of his being resurrected into eternal life just like any other man can be, and that is why Ruveyn had duly-noted the Bzzzzttt of that.

God cannot die.


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Kraichgauer
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22 Nov 2011, 2:51 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a Lutheran raised by Lutherans, I'll chime in with the traditional view that he was both God and man. Or as John put it, "the Word made flesh."

You say Jesus is God.

But all men or mortal and Jesus is a man therefore Jesus is mortal.
But Jesus is God. Therefore God is mortal.
Bzzzzttt.

But Christ was also human, and could die. He then was resurrected, and thus lives eternally.

How would resurrection into eternal life make one a god?

That's putting the cart before the horse. He was able to become resurrected into eternal life because he was God.

No, saying he was first God would be putting something ahead of his being resurrected into eternal life just like any other man can be, and that is why Ruveyn had duly-noted the Bzzzzttt of that.

God cannot die.


But he was also human. Dual nature. Therefore, he could, as that was the whole point of his coming to earth. The Buddhists can grasp that notion as well, as the same applies in the theology of some of their sects to Siddhartha Gautama, aka the Buddha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



fraac
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22 Nov 2011, 3:01 pm

Buddha was autistic too.



Kraichgauer
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22 Nov 2011, 3:18 pm

fraac wrote:
Buddha was autistic too.


Both Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama were known for their strength of personality, and ability to wrangle the attention of their audiences. I'm sorry, but most autistic individuals don't fit the bill in my humble opinion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



fraac
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22 Nov 2011, 3:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
fraac wrote:
Buddha was autistic too.


Both Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama were known for their strength of personality, and ability to wrangle the attention of their audiences. I'm sorry, but most autistic individuals don't fit the bill in my humble opinion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I think you have a very limited view of autistics. The only real difference between autistic and NT is in perceptual abilities. All personality stuff is incidental.



Lecks
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22 Nov 2011, 3:50 pm

fraac wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
fraac wrote:
Buddha was autistic too.


Both Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama were known for their strength of personality, and ability to wrangle the attention of their audiences. I'm sorry, but most autistic individuals don't fit the bill in my humble opinion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I think you have a very limited view of autistics. The only real difference between autistic and NT is in perceptual abilities. All personality stuff is incidental.

You never did explain what makes Jesus autistic, just reminding you.


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fraac
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22 Nov 2011, 3:52 pm

I did, you just disagreed.



Lecks
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22 Nov 2011, 4:17 pm

fraac wrote:
I did, you just disagreed.

All you said was that Jesus loved all people equally and suggested that he had some understanding of the beneficial effects of personalised patient care. You then assumed he was autistic because you share these very few traits. You said yourself that personality is incidental and what matters is perception, well no one knows what Jesus' perception was like because (as someone else pointed out) everything we know about him comes from third parties.


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Kraichgauer
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22 Nov 2011, 4:22 pm

fraac wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
fraac wrote:
Buddha was autistic too.


Both Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama were known for their strength of personality, and ability to wrangle the attention of their audiences. I'm sorry, but most autistic individuals don't fit the bill in my humble opinion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I think you have a very limited view of autistics. The only real difference between autistic and NT is in perceptual abilities. All personality stuff is incidental.
]

I'm going on what I know best from the autistic I know best - me.
Unlike Jesus or Siddhartha, when I'm walking and talking to someone, I regularly have to look back to make sure they're still following me. So no, from my personal experience, strength of personality isn't a strong point.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



91
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22 Nov 2011, 4:38 pm

leejosepho wrote:
No, saying he was first God would be putting something ahead of his being resurrected into eternal life just like any other man can be, and that is why Ruveyn had duly-noted the Bzzzzttt of that.

God cannot die.


His ressurection was a vindication of his claims, he claimed to be God. As to the claim that God cannot die, Christ's physical body human body died, I don't think anyone is claiming that the divine in him died too.


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ruveyn
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22 Nov 2011, 8:31 pm

91 wrote:

His ressurection was a vindication of his claims, he claimed to be God. As to the claim that God cannot die, Christ's physical body human body died, I don't think anyone is claiming that the divine in him died too.


Were you there when this Miracle took place?

I used to prepare deceased for burial (in the Jewish manner) when I worked with the chavurah kadeyshah. I have washed stiffs and wrapped them in shrouds. They start to stink in just a few hours which is why Jews bury the dead the same day, except for Shabbos. Dead is dead. I speak as close to first hand experience as a live person can get. Dead is dead. No resurrection.

ruveyn



91
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22 Nov 2011, 8:38 pm

^^^

I am not claiming that someone spontaneously returned from the dead, rather one was raised from the dead by God. That is not the same thing.


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Kraichgauer
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22 Nov 2011, 11:59 pm

91 wrote:
^^^

I am not claiming that someone spontaneously returned from the dead, rather one was raised from the dead by God. That is not the same thing.


It's a matter of faith, baby!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



leejosepho
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23 Nov 2011, 9:08 am

91 wrote:
I am not claiming that someone spontaneously returned from the dead, rather one was raised from the dead by God. That is not the same thing.

So then, God did not raise Himself ... and yet it would seem He did?

Kraichgauer wrote:
It's a matter of faith, baby!

I have yet to ever find faith illogical.


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Ragtime
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23 Nov 2011, 9:51 am

I don't remember a request to "give a silly response" in the opening post.

If everyone doesn't already know my view, I believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man. I believe that one reason He chose to become man was to serve as a clear example to us of how to resist sin -- for He did so without exception, even when, as He prayed in the garden of Gethsemane (where I myself have physically stood), "the flesh [was] weak", and He prayed to the Father to avoid crucifixion if He could -- yet submitted to the Father's will to undergo it anyway. Also, He became man in order to dwell and interact more directly with his creatures. There is a famous list of 333 Old Testament messianic prophecies that He fulfilled in the place, time, and through what lineage He chose to be born, as well as the specifics of how He lived His life on Earth. Should I even post a link here? From my experience, I don't believe there's enough serious people left in the PPR area to do so. Contempt seems to be about all that's left for God, here. (If you hold that the OT is a fairy tale, the fulfillment of those ancients texts by the later-period Jesus of Nazareth is still mathematically amazing.)


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23 Nov 2011, 12:05 pm

Jesus is just fairy tale.