Is Islamophobia any more justified than anti-Semitism?

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An "anti-Semite" would, I think, be against people of Semitic race, including Arabs and many Jews. A lot of Jews are not Semites.

An "Islamophobe" would be someone who fears Islam. You could fear Islam without being against Islam. In the same way that one could have a fear of high places while neither necessarily hating high places nor advocating that all high places be leveled.

Hmm, I might have to think more actively about Pastafarianism.

Yeah, they are such a small minority that they are getting voted into office in Arab spring countries in large enough numbers to form majority parties and impose sharia law.


...Or hijacked any other plane, or done any number of other antisocial things for that matter. You'd think a group claiming to be the "religion of peace" would be more...well...peaceful.

I find the attempt to equate anti-sematism to having a beef with Radical Islam is laughable. For reasons that others have pointed out in this thread already.

The planes hijacked on 9/11 were hijacked by Radical Muslims, not orthodox Jews.

Also when was the last time a woman got beheaded for "witchcraft" in Israel, cause there was an incident of this happening in Saudi Arabia recently.

Yay! let's play the irrelevant statistics game!


Nothing like a personal attack whilst we're at it.


Considering how much you're overreacting you coulda fooled me

Have you read the Quran? I haven't, but I've read enough passages to know that it condones all sorts of appalling things (paedophilia being one). The secular Muslims are actually ignoring much of what's in there in order to live a peaceful life in the West. It's the headbangers who take their book literally and want to use it to colonise the world that are the "real" Muslims.

The same applies to many Christians too in that a huge majority of them in Western Europe are either secularised, or keep their religion to themselves, or are agnostics/atheists now. Islam needs to go through the same treatment.

Fundamentalist Christians are a big pain in the arse too, by the way. That's why, where they exist, they're generally ignored, laughed at and sidelined.

Last edited by Tequila on 13 Dec 2011, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't see it as irrelevant at all.

Let's see:

Number of Jewish dictatorships: 0.
Number of Islamist dictatorships: plenty.

The Qur'an isn't the main issue here (it's an issue but not the biggest one). It's the backwards mentality that's the real problem leading some extreme Muslims to be a danger not only for Westerners but also for their fellow Arabs/Muslims.

The thing with the Qur'an is that it lacks defined context for each verse and passage. It's open to so many reasonable interpretations it's very confusing to figure out what the Qur'an actually condones.

But I say, from what I've read, the Qur'an only condones aggression in self-defense or out of vengeance. And that may still be used as an excuse for Islamic terrorism.

Yeah, islamist dictatopships... hummm..

Iran, Saudi Arabia and... and... Lebanon? Any other dictatorships are secular from my understanding. Just because it's a dictatorship populated by muslims doesn't mean it's an islamist dictatorship.
And yeah, because Israel has such a spotless record, doesn't it? Do we even need to take account of the numerical difference?

It's real democracy in a part of the world where democracy is otherwise a vague dream. They are much freer in law and in practice than in many other parts of the Middle East.

For Islamic dictatorships alone, we've got Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan and Yemen. Lebanon doesn't count because it has a Christian population still, though that is probably depleting. Many more are "secular" or have Islam as the state religion without being an Islamic state but for many of these countries it's as good as makes no difference.

Yup, Israel is a tiny country surrounded by hostile neighbours. Not bad going for them, I'd say.

I have no probleom with jew are Muslims.
It's the fundamentalist Muslims and the judeo-fascist Zionists that I cant stand.


The Zionist have committed many sick crimes against humanity that get very little news coverage.
It was displaced Balkan Zionists in Turkey that planned the Armenian genocide. The old testament mentions genocide many times.
The Palestinians are living in refugee camps because of the Zionists.
To say that the Jews have been peaceful would be insane.

Islam is not the religion of peace at all. Their mission is to convert everyone to Islam or kill them.
I know all of them dont do this but many of them take the quran seriously.

People need to see that you can strongly dislike the Zionist without being anti-semitic.
Zionist are Jewish nationalist and it is the same thing as hating Nazis. They think they are the master race and would take over the world if they could.

Can you pass me the "Zionist" version of Mein Kampf that mentions this? What utter bigoted rot you do talk.

Neither Antisemitism or Islamaphobia are justifiable.
Sure, it's absolutely true that Muslim fanatics had committed acts of terrorism against us infidels. And it's absolutely true that Muslim countries are plagued with dictatorships. But that doesn't excuse casting the patriotism of Muslim Americans into doubt. Since 9/11, law abiding Muslims have been put under constant surveillance by law enforcement, and have been scapegoated as the other by right wing politicians who want to get votes by appealing to the uglier side of people's nature. Masques have been vandalized by bigots and rednecks, and unfortunately cheered on at times by community leaders. Most recently, a program on The Learning Channel had been produced about the Muslim American community in Dearborn Michigan, that has been attacked by a bigoted group (can't remember their name - had "family" in it) for not showing the "violent side" of Islam - no, I'm not making this up. The hardware giant, Lowe's, had been a sponsor, till these right wing fruit loops had threatened to boycott them. And so like the moral cowards they are, Lowe's pulled their sponsorship. Luckily, a producer of Hip Hop music bought up the spots Lowe's dropped.
Muslim Americans are just that - Americans, and they're entitled to all the rights the rest of us enjoy, including the right to live free of fear, bigotry, and the questioning of their loyalty to America.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

In all three Abrahamic religions, there are passages in the texts that suggest if someone were to follow any of the religions, they would be dangerous.

If I were to follow all 613 commandments as a Jew I would be compelled to murder over hearing someone utter words forbidden by Judaism.

If I were to follow each and every verse in the Bible I would be compelled to kill on quite a regular basis.

Due to the timeline of what is said where in the Qu'ran I don't think I'd ever be compelled to murder anyone if I followed it concisely. So I'd say logically, it's not justified to be afraid of Muslims.

If I based this fear on the religion terrorists, radicals, and violent offenders claim, in America, at least in my lifetime, I'd be most justified in fearing Christians. Muslims would barely be on my radar. They don't blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors and they rarely go on shooting sprees, and our prisons aren't full of them. Our prisons are overwhelmingly full of men and women who claim to be Christians. Murderers and rapists etc.

If I based it on the most as*holes I'd encountered from any of the three Abrahamic religions, I would definitely not fear Muslims.

However, I don't fear or hate any of the three, because it's not the religion that determines what a person chooses to do with his or her life. I fear people who believe they are entitled to harm others. I fear people who act on those beliefs. The individuals, not the religions they claim, not people of the same religion, not their brothers or their fathers, but them, the people who commit atrocious acts. Those are the people I feel I am justifiably afraid of, and justifiably oppose.

Is Dearborn like Longsight, Bradford, parts of Blackburn, Tower Hamlets or some parts of France?

You have to enlighten me on the relevancy of those places.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer