Tell the truth about Islam!

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you ignored the second set of data.

anyway, are you talking about Islam or the middle east?

To quote you from another thread:

I would like to see your evidence that 1 in 4 British women are raped because I happen to know that you 'generated this figure out of thin air'.

You have ignored this request once, how many more times are you going to ignore it?

Do you intend to carry on just making evidence up and ignoring any perfectly reasonable requests for you to provide a source?

all evidence was in the links i provided. can you provide any counter-evidence, or are you just playing games?

I've not read watched the original video. I've watched previous videos from this man and I know his stance on Islam (and religion in general), nor have I read all of the replies. However I've known many muslims in my life, and I've yet to meet a violent or crazy one. I'm sure they're out there...it's rather obvious that they are, but consider that they are just as much a threat to secular and moderate muslims as they are to everyone else.

Islamic extremists are frequently even threats to very religious muslims, and even other extremists, because they view their brand of Islam as the true Islam and seek enforce that with violence.

I do understand what provokes Mr. Condell; the encroachment of extremism and certain (negative) middle eastern cultural elements on British society. And to some extend, on the subject of cultural preservation, I empathize with him. However I fear he has crossed the line into hate mongering on too many occasions, and has alienated secular, moderate, and otherwise integrated muslims who would otherwise agree with his stance on the issue of the "islamification" of British society.

You provide no evidence for your claim that 1 in 4 women in Britain has been raped.

It did not appear in either of the two documents you posted. I checked.

It seems odd that you are posting evidence you haven't read and attributing made up facts to them that don't exist.

If you really think either of those two documents state that 1 in 4 British women have been raped give the page number.


What a remarkable case of double standards, read the following quote from yourself and apply the same standards to yourself that you are demanding of other people.




I know that your figure is absurd, I know that you have made it up and I know it doesn't appear in either of those documents because unlike you I have actually checked them.

Now prove your statement or apologise and retract it.

Gang Rape is not reflective of the teachings of the Qu' ran, nor or the other fringe elements that attach themselves to the religion of Islam.

For the most part Muslims practice their religion peacefully and lawfully in the US. Muslim Citizens pose no significant problems, above and beyond anyone else that practices religion in the US.

There are Somali Immigrants that have not been able to assimilate themselves into the culture, and have resorted to crime in isolated cases in the US, but this is not an issue of religion, any more than it is for Mexican Immigrants, who have not assimiliated themselves into the culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam





http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3397433.stm

According to representatives from Scotland Yard, the wave of gang rapes described below in London were not a race related issue, instead related to youth crime. Very possible that some of the rapists were immigrants, but the demograhic of gang rapists was not limited to any one race, religion, or national origin.



In the link below 95% of outstanding homicide warrants were attributed to illegal immigrants in Los Angeles. Gang rapes, mafia activity, and forest fires have been attributed to illegal immigrants. They have not been identified as Muslims.

Criminal activity among immigrants isn't an issue specific to religion. The immigrants in these cases in Northern Europe just happen to be from Muslim countries. Some are having trouble assimilating into the culture and are turning to crime.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

i corrected that to sexually assaulted (you were correct), and it was in the second document. page 224.

and now that you know the truth, what will you do about it?

I will disprove it.

According to page 224 of your UN report the source for that data is in table 6.E on page 232 and turns out to be the British Crime Survey supplement 06/07.

Excellent. This is online.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... sb0308.pdf

Lets do a little reading and see if we can find that 24% figure. Aha! page 58 gives us this:



But that is from the summary, lets look at the details.

First off lets look more clearly at the phrase partner abuse.



So included in this 24% figure is:

Interfering with personal property
Unwanted communication
Verbal threats
emotional or financial abuse

Oh dear this doesn't sound like it should be all classified as 'sexual violence' in the UN report, lets see if we can find something more accurate. After all the UN definition on page 224 of your report is this




Page 73 of the BCS should do nicely. 3% of people between 16 & 59 report ever suffering sexual assault in their lives.


The person compiling your UN report simply skimmed through the BCS and grabbed the 'partner abuse' figure from the summary. They should have read more clearly and picked the 3% figure from the details as what the BCS calls 'serious sexual assault' is the closest thing to what the UN call 'sexual violence'.


Happy now Hyperlexian?

You are very mistaken on this point.

If an act is sanctioned by the society you live in, it will NOT be reported as a crime in the first place. You cannot use women crime statistics to demonstrate less violence to women, because in these countries being discussed, violence to women is often not a crime. Even if you go door to door and have a private chat with large swaths of dominated women, they will not report being abused, because 1) They are taught by their society that they are not being abused, and 2) They are afraid of the chances of reprisal from their domestic partners, and here is the big nasty kicker 3) to discuss this type of behavior is to dishonor their family and that could very well be considered a crime, which would get them beaten or killed. Because much of the outrageous violence against these women is being done BY the society, as punishment for essentially being female.

Would you have a problem with the punishment for being raped, yes, BEING raped was to be stoned to death? How would you take it if your country adopted the laws and government framework to begin prosecuting and executing women who get raped by stoning them to death? And how would you think of the situation if the political motivations that caused this change came from a religion that held power in your country? Would you be even the slightest bit upset with the religion??

We all can acknowledge that women’s rights have come a long way in some countries, and need to go even further in most. But when such blatant and egregious crimes against women are consistently perpetrated and endorsed by a religion, at some point, you really must stop and contemplate if that religion may just be a bit responsible…and just maybe it might be ok to criticize the views that religion is taking on the welfare of those under its control. Just maybe you think you can do that?

And all this talk about just the abuse side of the coin doesn’t even begin to do a discussion of women’s rights justice. Women deserve FAR more than just to not be tossed around. Islamic countries make it government policy to suppress the rights of women, the culture supports the idea that women are to be submissive to men, they do not have liberty, they do not make many of their own life choices. These issues are paramount! Why are you being intentionally blind to how hurtful the Islamic dogma is to the welfare of women all across the world?

Last edited by NarcissusSavage on 21 Mar 2012, 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

so.... 24% of women in the UK have suffered violence from their partner in some way (not just sexually, but in other ways as well). that is frighteningly high. do you think that it is not a cause for concern?

It is, but not related to the discussion about Islam issues. Women suffering from violence is an important discussion. Violence in general is even more important (because it includes the previous). General human sh***y behavior is an even more important discussion (because it includes all of the sh***y crap people do). But I think the specific issue people are taking with your contribution to this thread is that you don't seem to like the idea that a religion can in fact contribute to overall human shittyness. And it's pretty obvious to anyone who looks that indeed it can...

What you are really doing is asking a question unrelated to the topic, to stop a conversation you don't like, the quintessential Red Herring.

meh, no point. if you don't get it, you don't get it.

Last edited by hyperlexian on 21 Mar 2012, 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

if women in islam are going to be held up as examples of mistreatment, then the discussion will be empty and flawed if you are not aware of the conditions in other societies. so much handwringing about THEM when there are problems with US.

no, it isn't a red herring because it relates directly to the OP.

Are you really this thick or are you just winding me up?

Please go and read the definition of 'partner abuse' that I so kindly posted for you.
It includes lots of non violent things.
When you look at the figures for 'sexual violence' the numbers drop to 3%.

Or are you still going to argue this point?

Anyway, why are British women so important to you, shouldn't you be more concerned with what is going on at home before daring to pass comment on other people's cultures? After all that is what you recommend we do, or does this advice not apply to you?

Personally I find stuff like this quite disgusting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ouths.html

90-100 teenagers killed in Iraq because they have 'emo' hair, the favoured method of killing them is by abducting them and then smashing their head in between two concrete blocks.

Apparently this all started when Iraq's moral police issued a statement claiming that people with strange hairstyles were engaged in devil worship.

That would be the truth about Islam.


or how about this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... esson.html

A muslim man found guilty of seven counts of rape because he wanted to teach white women a lesson.

Not to mention the multiple trials of groups of muslim men that have been abducting and raping white children.

Of course it is none of my business that British muslim men in Britain are murdering their own wives and children for 'honour' and it is none of my business that muslim men are deliberately targeting and raping white British women and children British.

Of course it doesn't count as racist if a muslim rapes and murders a woman because she is white, it only counts as racism if white people do it.

In the last year almost 100,000 christians have fled Egypt because of persecution by muslims.

Perhaps Hyperlexian you can show me where in the world muslims are treated like this by christians?

Can you name country after country where a christian majority is burning down mosques, killing muslims, raping muslims and forcing a mass exodus of it's muslim population?

http://www.christiannewstoday.com/Chris ... 00171.html

This is the truth about Islam.

You can see similar things happening all over the muslim world.

Islam is just what Christianity was 600 years ago. Which makes sense when you consider it's 600 years younger than Christianity.