Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Misogyny/MRA is a sign of weakness

Page 4 of 32 [ 501 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 32  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:25 pm

Glad you brought up school. Research shows that female teachers give boys an average of 3% lower scores than girls, for providing exactly the same answers. Since the majority of female teachers is female, this gives girls an unfair advantage in school.

Education is another aspect of society where the female gender is the privileged one.



sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:28 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Women do not have more rules and expectations.

For instance, women do not have the same career pressure as men,
1) Unless they decide to actually pursue a good career job in a field run and dominated by men (which most high paying careers are.) In which case the pressure is higher and the glass cieling is lower........

the same pressure to be physically fit
2) What planet do you live on? Body image standards are FAR harsher for women.

and the same pressure to be confident.
This is a pressure created by a mysogonistic, gendernormative and ableist social norms. Hell, most of the pressures and setbacks socially awkward men like us suffer from are a result of this, not feminism.
DECIDE. DECIDE. DECIDE. DECIDE. DECIDE.
Men face much career pressure overall, also when they DON'T want to have a career.
2) This is EXTREMELY ironic, considering that women have a MUCH, MUCH higher standard for a woman's body than men have.
Go look at movie stars. Male photo models. They're all tall and muscular.
If you think body standards are far harsher for women, you are the one who's living on a different planet.



Tyri0n
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
Location: Douchebag Capital of the World (aka Washington D.C.)

21 May 2013, 3:28 pm

sixstring wrote:
Glad you brought up school. Research shows that female teachers give boys an average of 3% lower scores than girls, for providing exactly the same answers. Since the majority of female teachers is female, this gives girls an unfair advantage in school.

Education is another aspect of society where the female gender is the privileged one.


That is ridiculous. And likely impossible to determine accurately since no two people give "exactly the same answers."

Anyway, explain the math and science gender gap, which opens up in middle school.



Ann2011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,843
Location: Ontario, Canada

21 May 2013, 3:29 pm

sixstring wrote:
Also, please tell me how they are worse than
-Being the one who's expected to sacrifice his health and happiness so he can bring in the most money.
-Being the one who has the sacrifice his wishes the most often in favor of the wife's wishes.

Regarding these two points . . . I think everyone who works sacrifices health and happiness to a certain extent (unless you lucky enough to have a job you enjoy.) And, women sacrifice their own wishes all the time in favour of men's. I think it has more to do with personality than gender - one person does always tend to be dominant in a relationship.



sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Also, please tell me how they are worse than
-Being the one who's expected to sacrifice his health and happiness so he can bring in the most money.
-Being the one who has the sacrifice his wishes the most often in favor of the wife's wishes.

Regarding these two points . . .
1) I think everyone who works sacrifices health and happiness to a certain extent (unless you lucky enough to have a job you enjoy.) And, women sacrifice their own wishes all the time in favour of men's. I think it has more to do with personality than gender - one person does always tend to be dominant in a relationship.
1) The average woman decides her career paht on happiness and personal growth. The average man decides his career path on making as much money as possible, as we are still expected to be the main bread winners.
2) I don't know about very long-term relationships, but in the ones that my friends have (semi long-term), the girls get their way much more often than the other way around.



Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,606
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

21 May 2013, 3:34 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
Nope. Like the tea party thing, they are a reactionary movement built around attempting the preserve the control of the white ableist patriarchy. Also, like the TPM, It was created by the people who are in power in order to preserve it by finding poor schmucks and pointing them towards an imaginary enemy that actually exherts little real control.


I wouldn't exactly call them schmucks. Male victims deserve support like everyone else but the sad thing is, it's partly because they get very little of it that gives the MRA's legitimacy.



Ann2011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,843
Location: Ontario, Canada

21 May 2013, 3:39 pm

sixstring wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Also, please tell me how they are worse than
-Being the one who's expected to sacrifice his health and happiness so he can bring in the most money.
-Being the one who has the sacrifice his wishes the most often in favor of the wife's wishes.

Regarding these two points . . .
1) I think everyone who works sacrifices health and happiness to a certain extent (unless you lucky enough to have a job you enjoy.) And, women sacrifice their own wishes all the time in favour of men's. I think it has more to do with personality than gender - one person does always tend to be dominant in a relationship.
1) The average woman decides her career paht on happiness and personal growth. The average man decides his career path on making as much money as possible, as we are still expected to be the main bread winners.
2) I don't know about very long-term relationships, but in the ones that my friends have (semi long-term), the girls get their way much more often than the other way around.


1) "the average woman decides her career path on happiness and personal growth." That hasn't been my experience.
"the average man decides his career path on making as much money as possible" If so, it is still his choice.

2)Our experiences differ.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

21 May 2013, 3:40 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Some of the arguments on this thread support my most outlandish arguments in the OP. For example: those claiming that women have more job opportunities, or that men don't have more. This is only true if you are in the lower class where many of men have criminal records and few have any education. So the ones making this argument are not the strong, nor would I characterize them as winners.

If you had a good upper middle class job, you would realize that men get most of the higher paying jobs. If you don't realize this, that means you are not familiar with high-paying jobs, and so you are definitely not a winner.


Men on average work more and take more demanding educations. Take a look at the male-to-female ratio in medicine, law or engineering.


That's changing and it's insulting to imply that men are just naturally harder working. That's not true. The problem is in modern society there's a double standard. Women are increasingly encouraged and expected to work harder outside the home but men don't want to take up the slack by doing more work inside the home. They want to sit in front of the television after work because they "worked so hard" while the women works all day AND cooks for them. That is BS.



Last edited by marshall on 21 May 2013, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:40 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Glad you brought up school. Research shows that female teachers give boys an average of 3% lower scores than girls, for providing exactly the same answers. Since the majority of female teachers is female, this gives girls an unfair advantage in school.

Education is another aspect of society where the female gender is the privileged one.


That is ridiculous. And likely impossible to determine accurately since no two people give "exactly the same answers."

Anyway, explain the math and science gender gap, which opens up in middle school.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102759/Why-boys-failing-grade-classroom-Lack-male-teachers-reason-according-new-study.html

Partly to do with gender bias, partly to do with the fact that the average (pay attention, I said average) man having a better developed right-half brain (logic, deductive reasoning, etc) than left-half brain (emotions, communication, etc), whereas it's the opposite for women.



Geekonychus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,660

21 May 2013, 3:42 pm

sixstring wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Also, please tell me how they are worse than
-Being the one who's expected to sacrifice his health and happiness so he can bring in the most money.
-Being the one who has the sacrifice his wishes the most often in favor of the wife's wishes.

Regarding these two points . . .
1) I think everyone who works sacrifices health and happiness to a certain extent (unless you lucky enough to have a job you enjoy.) And, women sacrifice their own wishes all the time in favour of men's. I think it has more to do with personality than gender - one person does always tend to be dominant in a relationship.
1) The average woman decides her career paht on happiness and personal growth. The average man decides his career path on making as much money as possible, as we are still expected to be the main bread winners. 2) I don't know about very long-term relationships, but in the ones that my friends have (semi long-term), the girls get their way much more often than the other way around.


I've yet to see a single solid argument for how feminism oppresses men in any sense. The mainstream feminist platform encourages inividuality in personal identity and encourages men to take up more traditionally feminine roles (like child rearing.) Ridgid social expectations about Men being expected to be the bread winners, soldiers, higher educated, etc is part of the traditional patriarchial ideal......not a feminist ideal.

And yet somehow feminism is what's keeping men oppressed apperently.......odd..... :roll:



Last edited by Geekonychus on 21 May 2013, 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:43 pm

marshall wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Some of the arguments on this thread support my most outlandish arguments in the OP. For example: those claiming that women have more job opportunities, or that men don't have more. This is only true if you are in the lower class where many of men have criminal records and few have any education. So the ones making this argument are not the strong, nor would I characterize them as winners.

If you had a good upper middle class job, you would realize that men get most of the higher paying jobs. If you don't realize this, that means you are not familiar with high-paying jobs, and so you are definitely not a winner.


Men on average work more and take more demanding educations. Take a look at the male-to-female ratio in medicine, law or engineering.


That's changing and it's insulting to imply that men are just naturally harder working. That's not true. The problem is in modern society there's a double standard. Women are increasingly encouraged and expected to work harder outside the home but men don't want to take up the slack by doing more work inside the home. They want to sit in front of the television after work because they "worked so hard" while the women works all day and cooks for them. That is BS.
Its not BS, but proven fact.

The average man works longer hours per week, does more overtime, lives farther from home, takes less sick leave (without pregnancy in the equation) and holiday, is more often on time, etc, than the average woman.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q[/youtube]



Tyri0n
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
Location: Douchebag Capital of the World (aka Washington D.C.)

21 May 2013, 3:47 pm

sixstring wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Glad you brought up school. Research shows that female teachers give boys an average of 3% lower scores than girls, for providing exactly the same answers. Since the majority of female teachers is female, this gives girls an unfair advantage in school.

Education is another aspect of society where the female gender is the privileged one.


That is ridiculous. And likely impossible to determine accurately since no two people give "exactly the same answers."

Anyway, explain the math and science gender gap, which opens up in middle school.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102759/Why-boys-failing-grade-classroom-Lack-male-teachers-reason-according-new-study.html

Partly to do with gender bias, partly to do with the fact that the average (pay attention, I said average) man having a better developed right-half brain (logic, deductive reasoning, etc) than left-half brain (emotions, communication, etc), whereas it's the opposite for women.


Shortage of male teachers. Why? Gender bias/sexism.

better-developed brain for math and science? Sounds like junk science to me.

Now explain this:

Quote:
Sapienza and her colleagues noted that in Iceland, girls actually beat boys by a small margin on the PISA maths tests. Iceland scores high on womens' lib, at GGI 0.78. By contrast, Turkey - where the men keep their women firmly under the thumb (GGI 0.59) - showed girls lagging. The top four countries for gender equality are all in northern Europe: Sweden, Norway and Finland are the only ones which beat Iceland.


Sounds like the U.S.'s dismal results are due to cultural differences, not anything innate. It's also not a coincidence that the most liberal/tolerant/socialist countries in the world in other areas also have no gender gap in math and science achievement.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/30 ... tatistics/

So why the pay gap? It's because sexism starts long before college. Often due to being raised by uneducated, irresponsible parents.



Last edited by Tyri0n on 21 May 2013, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:47 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
sixstring wrote:
Also, please tell me how they are worse than
-Being the one who's expected to sacrifice his health and happiness so he can bring in the most money.
-Being the one who has the sacrifice his wishes the most often in favor of the wife's wishes.

Regarding these two points . . .
1) I think everyone who works sacrifices health and happiness to a certain extent (unless you lucky enough to have a job you enjoy.) And, women sacrifice their own wishes all the time in favour of men's. I think it has more to do with personality than gender - one person does always tend to be dominant in a relationship.
1) The average woman decides her career paht on happiness and personal growth. The average man decides his career path on making as much money as possible, as we are still expected to be the main bread winners. 2) I don't know about very long-term relationships, but in the ones that my friends have (semi long-term), the girls get their way much more often than the other way around.


I've yet to see a single solid argument for how feminism oppresses men in any sense. The mainstream feminist platform encourages inividuality in personal identity and encourages men to take up more traditionally feminine roles (like child rearing.) Ridgid social expectations about Men being expected to be the bread winners, soldiers, higher educated, etc is part of the traditional patriarchial ideal......not a feminist ideal. And yet somehow feminism is what's keeping men oppressed apperently.......odd..... :roll:
Please quote me where I said that feminists are oppressing men. They're not. They're just doing nothing about male oppression, in fact they even pretend that it's a myth. And that is why modern feminism has nothing to do with equality. It has everything to do with giving women preferential treatment.
Because rather than showing the facts that man face as much, if not more, social pressure than women; providing the world with objective facts about rape and spousal abuse, showing that it's just a big an issue for men than women; rather than going against all the sexism that has come into existence because of patriarchy, they solely focus on the female issues.

They completely ignore the male side, and freaking PERPETUATE (talking about men almost solely as offenders, women almost solely as victims) sexism against men, rather than trying to bring out the truth. They make it seem like it's SOOOO easy to be a man. They ignore men face more sexism.

Oh and ROFLOL at Norway being one of the greatest countries for equality. Men have to pay more taxes than women there, to financially support battered women shelters.
If that isn't sexism of the purest kind, I don't know what is.



Last edited by sixstring on 21 May 2013, 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

21 May 2013, 3:53 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Women do not have more rules and expectations.

For instance, women do not have the same career pressure as men,
Unless they decide to actually pursue a good career job in a field run and dominated by men (which most high paying careers are.) In which case the pressure is higher and the glass cieling is lower........

the same pressure to be physically fit
What planet do you live on? Body image standards are FAR harsher for women.

and the same pressure to be confident.
This is a pressure created by a mysogonistic, gendernormative and ableist social norms. Hell, all of the pressures and setbacks socially awkward men like us suffer from are a result of these sexist and ableist traditions and standards, not feminism.


If a woman wants the same degree of fitness as Rihanna or Kristen Stewart, she simply needs to go on a slight caloric deficit until she hits 20-22 percent bodyfat; no exercise is needed. A woman with a 20% bf level, is no more unnatural than a man with a 12% bf level.

If a man wants to look like Manu Bennet or Hugh Jackman, he has to consume high protein foods, spend hellish hours in the gym for years, has to cut all unhealthy foods and at the same time have less than the medical ideal for bodyfat. Without enough natural testosterone, he also needs steroids.

I never claimed that I suffered from feminism, though. I suffer from men who white knight for the misandrists (I'm not saying that you're one of them).

The glass ceiling is largely a myth; it's harder for women to become leaders and CEOs, though, because testosterone is what makes you dominant.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

21 May 2013, 3:55 pm

sixstring wrote:
marshall wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Some of the arguments on this thread support my most outlandish arguments in the OP. For example: those claiming that women have more job opportunities, or that men don't have more. This is only true if you are in the lower class where many of men have criminal records and few have any education. So the ones making this argument are not the strong, nor would I characterize them as winners.

If you had a good upper middle class job, you would realize that men get most of the higher paying jobs. If you don't realize this, that means you are not familiar with high-paying jobs, and so you are definitely not a winner.


Men on average work more and take more demanding educations. Take a look at the male-to-female ratio in medicine, law or engineering.


That's changing and it's insulting to imply that men are just naturally harder working. That's not true. The problem is in modern society there's a double standard. Women are increasingly encouraged and expected to work harder outside the home but men don't want to take up the slack by doing more work inside the home. They want to sit in front of the television after work because they "worked so hard" while the women works all day and cooks for them. That is BS.
Its not BS, but proven fact.

The average man works longer hours per week, does more overtime, lives farther from home, takes less sick leave (without pregnancy in the equation) and holiday, is more often on time, etc, than the average woman.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q[/youtube]


Apparently you don't know how to read. What is BS is that men expect women to work longer hours AND do the house work, cook for them, and all the traditional female roles. Is it any wonder women are more stressed out and depressed than men?

I was trying to express a balanced opinion on this issue but I don't have a lot of patience for dumb reactionary crap so I'm not really interested in arguing with you or Kurgan.



sixstring
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 272
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

21 May 2013, 3:58 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Sexism in education, too long to keep the quote
Yes there's bias in education. But here we have another perfect example of "equality."
Because the entire focus of the matter is of course yet again on how GIRLS face bias, whereas how boys face bias is yet again ignored.
Ever thought about the fact that maybe those boys would rather do psychology or a communication education?

Yet again the focus is on women having a hard time being taken seriously in male dominated industries, with no mention of how few women would support a stay-at-home dad or how few women would be comfortable with a male nanny.