Is there any proof God exists?
In proving God, the much more difficult task is in proving He doe not exist.
First, the order of the most simple things about us tells us there is intelligent design. We see flowers and the tides, and those point to the sun and the moon in their development.
From this we see the motions of the heavens. Quite a task without the laws of physics and their designer.
But coming back to humanity, the question that often comes up is why? Is this it?
This calls on a God with a name, a personal God. Each person is free to choose. I won't speak more in terms of theology other than saying it's quite amazing that the God of all things has a name, shares it, and has a delight in His creation--one which pre-exists to this creation. One where creation was made so as to share with a humanity created in His image. It's all made/anything is made to share with us.
Pretty sweet as opposed to nothing, no sharing no personal/loving God
However, we are arguing with a fantastic superstition that claims to be "science" where anything goes as long as it's perversely God-hating.
Here, in case you missed it, Izzy, is a summary of the entropy business in simple layman's terms and concepts:
The best (most succinct and precise) definition (description) of entropy is as it occurs in the "Second Law of Thermodynamics"; "All ordered systems, left to themselves tend toward maximum randomness and lowest energy (potential or differential)". That means that order naturally tends to degenerate into randomness (disorder) and energy potential tends to dissipate into a uniformity without potential because there's nowhere of lower potential left to go to...
Because energy must be dissipated in the maintenance, or sustaining, of an orderly system some con men with an ideology to sell will try to pretend that the energy consumed in the process creates the order. A sly mental trick.
Let's propose some practical examples to illustrate the process.
Most mothers like to have an orderly home. Order in her home requires:
1. An intellect to conceive the order.
2. The will to want the order.
3. The capacity, or power, to implement, or bring about, the order.
Now, that poor Mum who has been toiling away for years to install and maintain the order suddenly finds herself confronted by a clever-dick progeny who's been to school and learned that energy spontaneously creates order. SmArty tries to convince Mum that letting off a bomb (great release of energy) in the middle of her expertly managed domain, will spontaneously create order and she'll never have to tidy up again. Good luck with that one Smarty.
Or let's lift great weights to great heights. An intellect comes up with an idea of a crane to do the job. Skilled minds and hands divert energy and materials to make the machine using entropy in every step of the process. Smarty, with the benefit of his recently acquired great insights, comes along and proclaims that because the energy to build and operate the crane comes, ultimately, from the Sun then the Sun built the crane. Now, I just happen to know for sure that Central Australia gets lots and lots of solar energy but not one giant crane has ever spontaneously appeared in the desert.
Oh well, counters Smarty, "that only applies to non-biological systems. Energy applied to biological systems creates an increase in order and complexity opposed to entropy". Smarty has never heard of the "Law of Morphology" (which is really only entropy applied to biological systems) which says, simply, that "the more complex an organism and the more often it is reproduced, the more likely it is that something will go wrong in the process".
So, the thousands of generations of Drosophila (fruit flies) that have been subjected to every imaginable radiation "stimulus" to produce "sped up" "evolution" have only ever produced some wreckage of their DNA or genome... not one super-human spaceman.
Ultimately, untold thousands of generations of diligent and wise housekeeping Mums are in tune with reality... the Smartys are not.
Order is a product of Intellect, Will, and Life.
The best (most succinct and precise) definition (description) of entropy is as it occurs in the "Second Law of Thermodynamics"; "All ordered systems, left to themselves tend toward maximum randomness and lowest energy (potential or differential)". That means that order naturally tends to degenerate into randomness (disorder) and energy potential tends to dissipate into a uniformity without potential because there's nowhere of lower potential left to go to...
Because energy must be dissipated in the maintenance, or sustaining, of an orderly system some con men with an ideology to sell will try to pretend that the energy consumed in the process creates the order. A sly mental trick.
Let's propose some practical examples to illustrate the process.
Most mothers like to have an orderly home. Order in her home requires:
1. An intellect to conceive the order.
2. The will to want the order.
3. The capacity, or power, to implement, or bring about, the order.
Now, that poor Mum who has been toiling away for years to install and maintain the order suddenly finds herself confronted by a clever-dick progeny who's been to school and learned that energy spontaneously creates order. SmArty tries to convince Mum that letting off a bomb (great release of energy) in the middle of her expertly managed domain, will spontaneously create order and she'll never have to tidy up again. Good luck with that one Smarty.
Or let's lift great weights to great heights. An intellect comes up with an idea of a crane to do the job. Skilled minds and hands divert energy and materials to make the machine using entropy in every step of the process. Smarty, with the benefit of his recently acquired great insights, comes along and proclaims that because the energy to build and operate the crane comes, ultimately, from the Sun then the Sun built the crane. Now, I just happen to know for sure that Central Australia gets lots and lots of solar energy but not one giant crane has ever spontaneously appeared in the desert.
Oh well, counters Smarty, "that only applies to non-biological systems. Energy applied to biological systems creates an increase in order and complexity opposed to entropy". Smarty has never heard of the "Law of Morphology" (which is really only entropy applied to biological systems) which says, simply, that "the more complex an organism and the more often it is reproduced, the more likely it is that something will go wrong in the process".
So, the thousands of generations of Drosophila (fruit flies) that have been subjected to every imaginable radiation "stimulus" to produce "sped up" "evolution" have only ever produced some wreckage of their DNA or genome... not one super-human spaceman.
Ultimately, untold thousands of generations of diligent and wise housekeeping Mums are in tune with reality... the Smartys are not.
Order is a product of Intellect, Will, and Life.
Order is a product of:
Life, Will, Love, and Intellect in that 'order'...
Generally speaking, 'the rule is', a housewife who does not experience the positive PRO-SOCIAL emoting POWER of the emotions associated with Unconditional Love has a 'nasty' 'DIS-ORDERED' home...
THAT is often the result of social abuse, either in childhood or later that can, WILL, and does KILL human pro-social emotion, by various biological and environmental mechanisms...
MOST all rational decisions are preceded by emotions; take that out of the soup of human and one has 'mindless' robots, more or LESS; yes, so-called smarty pant zombies...
LIZARDS have Life and Will.
Dogs have Life, Will, and Love.
Humans CAN AND DO HAVE Life, Will, Love and Intellect.
But truly the biggest roadblock in human experience, to have an imbalanced life,
both in connection to other humans and NATURE AKA GOD, IS THE DEATH OF LOVE;
AND DEFICITS OF PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE,
AS PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR REGULATING
PRO-SOCIAL EMOTION.
IN HUMANS, the Death of PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE AND
Love often means the Death of Pro-Social Cooperation,
Will, and Intellect, and potentially even life, in THAT DISORDER.
And truly there is SYSTEMIZING science to THAT (NOT THE FRIGGING SCIENTIFIC METHOD ALONE);
for those FOLKS who explore THAT 'LITERATURE', IN DETAIL, AND BIG PICTURE THINKING AND FEELING....
PER, WHAT IS REQUIRED IN HUMAN PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE, THE CORE OF ALL EMOTING HUMAN EMOTIONS,
FOR A MIND AND BODY BALANCE IN LIFE.
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
EDITED response:
Order is a product of:
Life, Will, Love, and Intellect in that 'order'...
Generally speaking, 'the rule is', a housewife who does not experience the positive PRO-SOCIAL emoting POWER of the emotions associated with Unconditional Love has a 'nasty' 'DIS-ORDERED' home...
THAT is often the result of social abuse, either in childhood or later that can, WILL, and does KILL human pro-social emotion, by various biological and environmental mechanisms...
MOST all rational decisions are preceded by emotions; take that out of the soup of human and one has 'mindless' robots, more or LESS; yes, so-called smarty pant zombies...
SNAKES have Life and Will.
Dogs have Life, Will, and Love.
Humans CAN AND DO HAVE Life, Will, Love, and Intellect.
But truly the biggest roadblock in human experience, to have a balanced life,
both in connection to other humans and NATURE AKA GOD, IS THE DEATH OF LOVE;
AND DEFICITS OF PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE,
AS PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR REGULATING
PRO-SOCIAL EMOTION,
INCLUDING THE EMOTION OF LOVE.
IN HUMANS, the Death of PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE AND
Love often means the Death of Pro-Social Cooperation,
Will, and Intellect; and potentially even life; in THAT DISORDER.
And truly there is SYSTEMIZING science to THAT (NOT THE FRIGGING SCIENTIFIC METHOD ALONE);
for FOLKS who explore THAT 'LITERATURE', IN DETAIL; AND BIG PICTURE THINKING AND FEELING;
PER, WHAT IS REQUIRED IN HUMAN PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE;
THE CORE OF ALL EMOTING HUMAN EMOTIONS;
FOR MIND AND BODY BALANCE
IN LIFE..
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Nope.. at least if one has high regard for science..
'science says' emotion comes first.. and reason second...
AND BY THE WAY.. true will AT CORE IS HUMAN emotion.. not abstract concepts alone...
People who experience few emotions are OFTEN very limited by way of cognitive executive functioning.. in emoting action... and that my friend is the CRUX OF WILL.. FOCUS AND EMOTING ACTION.. WITH EMOTION...
Not my idea.. alone.. it's backed up by 'that' scientific method.. that you seem to 'love' so well... smiles..
But OMG.. seriously.. it's common sense for one who is in touch with their entire being in fuller physical intelligence AND EXISTENTIAL intelligence.. and not just stuck.. in an illusory head.. of verbal abstract thoughts...
http://bigthink.com/experts-corner/decisions-are-emotional-not-logical-the-neuroscience-behind-decision-making
And seriously.. as many emotional personal attacks.. in words.. as one has made against other people in this thread.. and others.. i certainly hope one does not 'think' one is in control of one's emotions.. in words.. otherwise one could be like 'me'.. in 'Yoda' style of understanding how to control emotions with relative free will.. including the physical intelligence of regulating emotions.. as well as integrating senses...
One will never ever see me make a personal attack on this website.. and there is no record of it.. in several million words.. as I for one.. am in control of my emotions.. and understand they are the core emoting energy of my being...
Emotions can only be controlled by emotions and other senses.. in physical intelligence.. NOT WITH words alone...
Words are just a secondary byproduct that can be used as symbols or guideposts to associate with emotions.. like everything else that emotes human action in life... PER EMOTIONAL AFFECT OR LACK OF IT...
A major 'reason' why many folks do not believe in GOD.. IS they simply cannot fuller feel the empathic connection to other human beings and the rest of Nature AKA GOD...
People who do TRULY FULLER feel that UNCONDITIONALLY LOVING EMOTIONAL connection.. almost always respect others and rarely to never personally attack them.. as they understand that personally attacking them is like personally attacking GOD.. AND THEMSELVES.. as it is all ONE big CONNECTING FEELING INTERDEPENDENTLY RELATED FORCE..
AT least FOR folks who are NOT stuck in an illusory verbal pattern of LIMITED ..in the head thinking.. with little empathic connection.. affectively and or cognitively 'speaking'.. to the rest of the human race and all of Nature AKA GOD.. as well...
That's Heart.. Soul.. and Spirit 101.. and Spirit is simply a metaphor for emotionally expressing the seat of the human being that is the Emotional Soul.. and the Heart that feels is the emotions that DO 'reside AND LIVE' throughout the human body.. with neurological receptors THAT FEEL.. like all healthy.. socially cooperative mammals innately.. instinctually.. and intuitively do...
All the words.. are MOSTLY symbols for emotions.. PER WHAT REALLY COUNTS IN LIFE.. AS IS..NOW.. AND all the STUFF that humans abstractly label as static DEAD NOUNS IN collecting NOUNS AS objects.. INCLUDING THE THREE LETTER WORD GOD.. often for illusory EMPTY WORDS OF power.. FOR those folks who can no longer or ever can.. give and receive feeling FULFILLING.. Satisfying in EVERY NOW.. Unconditional Love..
LIKE a frigging DOMESTICATED OR EVEN WILD Dog.. 'who' for all practical intents and purposes is often more so-called 'human' than many 'cold hearted HUMAN zombies' walking the street.. and online of course.. as well...
But of course that IS easy to measure.. as well..
BY the pro-social emotional expressions
that people do OR DO NOT make in words..
my friend....
Dogs have it easy.. they just bark and 'smile'..
with emotionally connecting eyes....
Humans are more complicated as they get lost in words..
and some times never escape back..
to the eyes of a child..
AKA
'HUMAN'....BEFORE 'SCHOOL'.. IN THE MANY FORMS
THAT COMES IN NOW.. takes 'em away
from what they are even evolved to be..
at times.. at least...
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Hogsy, your admonition is duly noted.
I make no claim to be some kind of angelic perfection devoid of impatience, annoyance, or stupidity.
I also extend the possibility of annoyance, impatience and stupidity to those with whom I disagree. Let Reason be the arbiter.
My patience and tolerance is sometimes submerged in a gallon of home brew.
Mosis was not real hence the ten commandments are fiction as well until there is actual historical proof of him existing god does not exist either.I predict domino effect followed by more personal attacks by Mr Davy out of desperation.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
Your Majesty has no subject here.
I suppose that the only face-saving option left for you is to try to get me banished (banned).
Before I get the flick I'll re-present a layman's view of the "evolution" hoax. This bod is an avowed non-Christian.
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed59.html
I don't expect that any card-carrying anti-theists will read it but maybe some bystanders will.
There's much more... and much more very scientifically specific objections to the fantastic superstition of no cause for everything. Try this if you're the least bit fair-minded:
http://www.detectingdesign.org/?page_id=2
That's only a sample of some of the contra-evidence of the Materialist view. There is much more, often very sectarian, objection to the fashionable Materialism.
Your Majesty has no subject here.
I suppose that the only face-saving option left for you is to try to get me banished (banned).
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
Let us not forget that Noahs Ark never happened it was a fairy tale as well!
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
i studied thermodynamics, i'd think i know what enthropy is.
as for your electron example; bad example, as the "electron", as such, doesn't exist, not as a particle. rather, it's a probability wave.
your "law of morpholgy"; that is why DNA has self-repair; yes, things go wrong all the time, but double-strands fix that problem, largely.
Legos can actually form themselves; given some initial atoms (not "pure energy", but initial materials, as the big bang implies), enough energy and enough time, something resembling a lego block could assemble.
It might also speed up discussion if you stopped mixing sciences around; you have used thermodynamics, physics, biology and astronomy together for a single point, they aren't supposed to be mixed in that way.
also, when do apologists get it into their heads: even *if* you manage to prove the current scientific ideas wrong, this still doesn't prove a god, so most arguments are invalid to the discussion (albeit some are still valid points, just irrelevant).
"I dont know, therefor god" is just a bad argument, like pascals wager, it only applies if there are only 2 options: science or god, but science isn't the answer, but the search for the answer.
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