usa is mass-killing people and nobody cares

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Raptor
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03 Feb 2015, 12:17 pm

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It was either use the bomb (actually 2) to force a surrender or do it the old fashioned way with a land invasion of Japan and suffer/inflict many more casualties. The A-bomb was coming, anyway; we were just the first to build one that works and use it.


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BuyerBeware
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03 Feb 2015, 12:27 pm

PEOPLE mass-kill PEOPLE. The only people who care, most of the time, are the ones with a stake in the killing, one way or the other.

H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis did WHAT to each other again?? Hint: "exclusion" is not necessarily synonymous with "avoidance."

They've been killing each other in the Middle East for HOW LONG?? What did that start over?? Whose camel went first at the well?? Whether it's pronounced "Al" or "El"?? Who gets that choice bit of ground east of the Mediterranean that looks like a paradise flowing with milk and honey if you happen to be standing in the Arabian Desert and trying not to die?? If you believe the mythology, it started with two women, one of whom wanted to give her husband an heir come what may (and then didn't want to deal with the consequences of that when she gave birth to a child herself).

What exactly happened to the people indigenous to the North American continent?? It happened to the indigenous Australians too. And a bunch of other indigenous people. Basically over the same thing-- "How are we going to use this land, and who is going to decide??"

There's genocide in Africa. If we get involved, we'll get slammed for militarizing it on a massive scale and causing thousands of civilian casualties. If we don't get involved, we're allowing mass murder. Either way, a bunch of people are going to be dead.

It's not a question of stopping the killing. People are going to die by violence. It's a question of how many, which ones, and for what.

IIRC, there was a similar logic behind Fat Man and Little Boy. We were in the war and believed it was essential to our survival as a nation to win it. Our options were the bombs or an amphibious invasion of Japan. The bombs had a lower projected body count. On both sides.

There's another mass killing we can talk about. A few million people (are they people?) every year who haven't had the opportunity to do anything to offend anyone other than being inconvenient (even if possibly life-threateningly so).

Mass killing isn't an American thing. Mass killing is a HUMAN thing. It's based on binaries (good/bad, us/them, win/lose) and the perception (real or not) of scarcity of resources.

When we recognize THAT, and figure out how to do something about it, there will be less mass killing, and more people will care.


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03 Feb 2015, 12:30 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\
It was either use the bomb (actually 2) to force a surrender or do it the old fashioned way with a land invasion of Japan and suffer/inflict many more casualties. The A-bomb was coming, anyway; we were just the first to build one that works and use it.


It should be remembered that the Japanese had had their own A Bomb program at the time, though not as far along as ours. Luckily, the German program was stifled by the fact that Werner Heisenberg was purposely dragging his feet to keep Hitler from having the bomb - that, and that he really didn't understand how to make one.


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03 Feb 2015, 5:01 pm

It should be said that my opinions on the causes, the perpetrators, and the ubiquity of mass killing should in no way be taken to imply that I'm condoning it, or that it doesn't bother me.

It bothers me quite a lot, from Homo whosgonnawin on up to the unplanned fetus aborted five minutes ago.

But pointing to primitive H. sapiens and saying "Barbarian" isn't gonna stop it. Pointing to Americans/British/Germans/Japanese/Chinese and saying "Imperialist dog" isn't gonna stop it. Pointing to Hutus and Tutsis or Boko Haram or Al Quaeda or ISI-Where-ever and saying "Terrorist thugs" isn't gonna stop it. Pointing to the woman walking into or out of an abortion clinic and saying "Baby-killer" isn't gonna stop it.

Doing that is, in effect, PART OF THE PROBLEM. At best it accomplishes nothing other than stroking the self-righteous pride of the person pointing the finger. At worst, it perpetuates the "us/them" binary that is a necessary condition in order for it to happen.

To stop it, you have to address the beliefs, the perceptions, the goals, and the fears that drive it.

I still don't know how to do that. Yet. The best I've figured out to do is live below my means, help out the people I encounter, and pass out copies of The More-With-Less Cookbook. That's something, but it's not enough. Obviously.

So if you've got any better ideas... Preferably ones that DON'T involve putting the power of life and death in the hands of some centralized authority that you just happen to think might be friendly to your particular worldview... I'm ALL EARS.


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03 Feb 2015, 5:07 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
It should be said that my opinions on the causes, the perpetrators, and the ubiquity of mass killing should in no way be taken to imply that I'm condoning it, or that it doesn't bother me.

It bothers me quite a lot, from Homo whosgonnawin on up to the unplanned fetus aborted five minutes ago.

But pointing to primitive H. sapiens and saying "Barbarian" isn't gonna stop it. Pointing to Americans/British/Germans/Japanese/Chinese and saying "Imperialist dog" isn't gonna stop it. Pointing to Hutus and Tutsis or Boko Haram or Al Quaeda or ISI-Where-ever and saying "Terrorist thugs" isn't gonna stop it. Pointing to the woman walking into or out of an abortion clinic and saying "Baby-killer" isn't gonna stop it.

Doing that is, in effect, PART OF THE PROBLEM. At best it accomplishes nothing other than stroking the self-righteous pride of the person pointing the finger. At worst, it perpetuates the "us/them" binary that is a necessary condition in order for it to happen.

To stop it, you have to address the beliefs, the perceptions, the goals, and the fears that drive it.

I still don't know how to do that. Yet. The best I've figured out to do is live below my means, help out the people I encounter, and pass out copies of The More-With-Less Cookbook. That's something, but it's not enough. Obviously.

So if you've got any better ideas... Preferably ones that DON'T involve putting the power of life and death in the hands of some centralized authority that you just happen to think might be friendly to your particular worldview... I'm ALL EARS.


Yes. This ^^^^. The us/them binary is at the core of it.



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04 Feb 2015, 4:30 pm

Y'know whenever I see a anti-American circle-jerk stirring about I have to ask you. What would you prefer the world power to be?

Would you prefer it to be the USSR where you can be sent to gulags for not supporting communism?

Would you prefer it to still be the British empire and watch them exploit the world for there own benefit?

Would you prefer it to be the Japanese and watch them treat other Asian minorities terribly?

Would you prefer it be the Mongolians and watch the world get sacked, raped and pillaged?

Would you prefer it to be German national socialist party and watch them mass kill Jews and eastern Euros?

the USA isn't perfect but its been most ethical dominating world power that we have seen of late and I would rather they be the world power than someone else



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04 Feb 2015, 4:59 pm

DeuceKaboose wrote:
Y'know whenever I see a anti-American circle-jerk stirring about I have to ask you. What would you prefer the world power to be?

Would you prefer it to be the USSR where you can be sent to gulags for not supporting communism?

Would you prefer it to still be the British empire and watch them exploit the world for there own benefit?

Would you prefer it to be the Japanese and watch them treat other Asian minorities terribly?

Would you prefer it be the Mongolians and watch the world get sacked, raped and pillaged?

Would you prefer it to be German national socialist party and watch them mass kill Jews and eastern Euros?

the USA isn't perfect but its been most ethical dominating world power that we have seen of late and I would rather they be the world power than someone else


Well, Willoughby to be honest with certain medical advances of course and the community's decisions are made in a local deli shop where one can get a delicious turkey sandwich and pastrami on rye.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734550/



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04 Feb 2015, 6:30 pm

Raptor wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
USA has invaded many countrys and killed millions. They drop a atom-bomb on Japan.

They rule all countyrs behind the scenes, countrys that they not rule is labbed as terrorists.

USA was greated by slavery and mass-murdering of indians.

USA have racism against blacks.

They have insane and barbaric prisons and penaltys.

Much sexism does the americans bring.

They have atom-bombs....but say to others that they cant have....

They have secret prisons all over the world, where they are torturing muslims and others "enemyes".

If you find out something about the USA-regime, you will get killed.

Why does USA come away with all this? Why is not the world doing revolt?

How can americans talk about how violent and poor other countrys are while usa is the worst of all?

And why is usa in the middle east all the time? Leave the arabs alone.


Sounds like my kind of country .
Hey wait, that IS my country!
Gee it's great to be an AMERICAN with all that killin' and whatnot! :D
So tell us more awesome things about the good old US of A...

Image
:lol:


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Orangez
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04 Feb 2015, 6:32 pm

USA funded the Al-Qaeda for its proxy war against the Soviet Union and then made the same mistake with ISIS. I hope they finally learned there lesson and not sponsor Ukraine.



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04 Feb 2015, 6:41 pm

Orangez wrote:
USA funded the Al-Qaeda for its proxy war against the Soviet Union and then made the same mistake with ISIS. I hope they finally learned there lesson and not sponsor Ukraine.


In all honesty, the Taliban along with other Afghan rebel groups were the actual recipients of our aid, whereas Al-Qaeda was actually sponsored by Bin Laden's cash from the start. Bin Laden just happened to be a friend of our friends.
As for Ukraine - I tend to see Putin as a legitimate threat, while the Ukrainians seem to want to orbit the west, and so hardly can be compared to Middle Eastern religious fanatics fighting their own version of the culture war.


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04 Feb 2015, 7:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Orangez wrote:
USA funded the Al-Qaeda for its proxy war against the Soviet Union and then made the same mistake with ISIS. I hope they finally learned there lesson and not sponsor Ukraine.


In all honesty, the Taliban along with other Afghan rebel groups were the actual recipients of our aid, whereas Al-Qaeda was actually sponsored by Bin Laden's cash from the start. Bin Laden just happened to be a friend of our friends.
As for Ukraine - I tend to see Putin as a legitimate threat, while the Ukrainians seem to want to orbit the west, and so hardly can be compared to Middle Eastern religious fanatics fighting their own version of the culture war.


Your answer isn't vague enough, for mass consumption.

Here I'll try: USA cause all the bloodshedz.



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04 Feb 2015, 7:13 pm

sophisticated wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Not sure why Americans like to boast about their debt ridden nation.

The Jews (who are more Israeli than American) are dominating every industry.

I bet Jews were behind all these inventions coming out of America.

It is the Jewish golden era.

America is just a piece of land or continent, with a bunch immigrants, but one ethnicity seems to be doing all the work, so why are ordinary Americans like the ones we have on this forum attempting take all credit ?


Evidence please.

Of the top 10 world wanks not one is Jewish.

Of the top ten financial institutions not one is Jewish.

Which of the main industries are Jewish controlled?


48% of American Billionaires are Jewish.

That says it all really.

It's not just America though, even Europe and Russia, Jews are the wealthiest , most powerful, most productive people.

Take away the Jews and what would the Western world look like ?


Says what exactly that less than half of american billionaires are Jewish? And I do not think anyone was suggesting jews be removed from the planet in this thread.


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04 Feb 2015, 7:18 pm

progaspie wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
USA has invaded many countrys and killed millions. They drop a atom-bomb on Japan.


Just taking OP's first sentence and my comment as follows:

Yes. The US did drop two atom bombs on Japan. So why did the US drop atom bombs on Japan? Just think about it for a moment before you accuse the US of mass murder.

Unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbour. US warships sent to the bottom of the ocean. Thousands of US servicemen killed.

Invasion of The Philippines. Invasion of Burma. Invasion of Singapore. Invasion of Papua New Guinea.Invasion of China.

Ten of thousands of allied servicemen taken as Japanese prisoners of war and then systematically starved to death and the healthy ones taken as slaves. Woman raped and taken as concubines.

Chinese civilians and prisoners of war taken to medical facilities and experimented on.

Do you propose that the US should have invited the Japanese to take over the US and do to the US what the Japanese were doing to South East Asia?

Take all the time you want to think about it before you make your next wild assertion about the US.

Regardless of that thousands of civilians where killed by the U.S in that attack...so yes people are going to look back probably as long as that is in the history books wondering if there could have been another way and being somewhat disgusted at how many civilians where killed and the fact the dropped a second as if the first was not bad enough.


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04 Feb 2015, 7:21 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
So the US killed over a hundred thousands of people with a single atomic bomb.

Now, let's discount the reasons that the US launched the bomb for just one second.

Think about it one hundred thousand f*****g people.

Just think about it. It's amazing that the whole world is not in a constant state of trauma. The only way we can be proud of such a perverse act (even if there might have been some justification for it) is extreme cognitive dissonance.

We just f**k each other over all the time. And life f*****g sucks sometimes.


Cannot say I feel any pride about that incident or that I agree with it even....but obviously cannot be traumatized by something that happened long before I was ever thought of...That said the first one was bad enough, I certainly do not think two where necessary. Either way there are good things about this country and bad things about it, just like anywhere else though most governments are corrupt.


My father was in the Pacific theatre during WWII. I've wondered at times whether he would have come home if we hadn't used the bomb. And I'll guess many thousands of other "war babies" may have thought the same. It was called "war" and they "threw the first 'punch.'"

The Japanese would have done the same to us if we'd delayed and they'd deployed a/their bomb first.


No really WWII was a war?...I had no idea :roll:.
Either way I still don't see it as anything to be proud of...at best if it absolutely had to be done and there really was no other way to end the war at best it would be a bittersweet victory due to all the civilian death not something to be celebrated, unless of course one views the Japanese killed as inferior or something.


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04 Feb 2015, 7:30 pm

News Flash! World War Two ended 70 years ago!

Anyone who fought in that war is likely in his or her eighties, if they're still alive at all.

So blaming America for dropping the first atomic bomb is like blaming Germany for the Shoah (Holocaust) - pointless, since if a trial were to be held for those who gave the orders, there wouldn't be anyone to arrest and try!

You are blaming dead people for something that occurred long before you were even born!

:roll:


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04 Feb 2015, 8:07 pm

One popular theory about the US using their atomic weapons in 1945 is that it was done to intimidate the USSR out of their planned invasion of Japan. It's possible to make a case that Japan would have suffered more casualties from a long period of Soviet rule than they did from the nuclear bombs.