Republicans wrong about Obamacare

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^^^^having lived well before the PPACA era during the REAL "big fat nothing" [even before EMTALA which the GOP has its sights set on repealing as well] I can tell you that $200 and $7500 deductibles are a HELLUVA lot better than no insurance at all [somebody my age would have to pay $500/month on a catastrophic-only plan] and no medical care at all, what with most physicians' offices refusing to treat the uninsured, literally being dumped out on the street. perspective, man, perspective.

Last edited by auntblabby on 13 Jan 2017, 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

So you're saying my aunt, who's a struggling single mother, who has to practically work 2 jobs to cover medical insurance for her kid, is doing a HELLUVA lot better than before Obamacare? And you're saying someone your age can afford $200 month plus $7,500 out pocket working a job that pays minimum wage? And it was all going to get a lot more costly in 2018. Still going to stick with what a godsend Obamacare is? I admire your devotion.

I am 1] not criticizing your family in any way, and 2] YES she is doing better because she would not have been able to get insurance beforehand unless she was wealthy. I maintain that $200/month is still better than $1000+ a month plus pre-existing conditions clauses plus $10k+ deductibles. IOW she likely would have been without heath care unless she made substantially more than minimum-wage. that is the reality pre-ACA. NOT saying ACA was perfect, lord knows I beetched and moaned about it, but I also recognize that half a loaf is still better than NONE.

As I already stated, she had been doing the same work under two employers since 1991, and in all that time she got free healthcare with a $200-$300 annual deductible with 70% coverage, working a couple of dollars above minimum wage, in an industry that employs many millions.

She and millions like her had such plans until Obamacare kicked in. Her employer fought to maintain their employee healthcare plan, but in 2011 they were FORCED by the government to scrap it to the objection of every single employee. Even though Obama promised up and down over 30 times, that people who liked their plan could keep their plan.

not to diminish your relation's pain, but your relation was a LOT luckier than me in that I've NEVER gotten totally "free" healthcare, even when I had a civil service job. your relation's experience of totally free health care is not that common in the world of lower-middle class work not to mention working class work where it is rare as hens' teeth.

Millions upon millions of workers are in the same boat as her. And they're all cheering because there's a chance that Obamacare is finally being replaced with something that's actually affordable. People in the food service industry, people in the hotel industry, people in the maintenance industry, people in the private security industry, cable installers, etc etc may finally now get a break. Plus the 6.5 million people who have to pay a substantial penalty, because they can't afford Obamacare.

One thing I'm wondering is if Trump is going to be able cancel that substantial penalty millions of poor people are expected to pay at tax time this year.

^^^what part of GOP "repeal AND DELAY" suggests REPLACEMENT with something affordable? that is the question of the year. and the penalty is avoidable by filing IRS exemption form 8965, for a long list of reasons including premiums representing more than 8% of income.

Putting some facts with this ....

That exemption is based on the national average Bronze plan premium.

For 2016 that number is $223 per month.

See page 17
2016 Instructions for Form 8965
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8965.pdf

$223* 12 months =$2676
Adjusted Gross Income * .08% < $2676
Adjusted Gross Income < $2676 / .08
So, Adjusted Gross Income < $33,450

Make simply an Adjusted Gross Income of $33,451 and you cannot take the 8% exemption.

I've said it, before----and, I'm saying it, again----I will never understand, in a million years, why / how Obamacare could have been made MANDATORY; talk about a too far-reaching government!!

I mean, the whole reason this country was founded, was for FREEDOM; and, telling people that they don't have a CHOICE in healthcare plans, is just BEYOND insanity, IMO----aside from the fact that the government shouldn't be, IMO, telling people what THEY think is best, for people; again, taking-away their freedom.

IMO, government should ONLY be VERY basic----for maintaining justice, defense, economy, commerce, and stuff like that----and, when the government starts campin'-out on people's front porches (Obamacare), it's gone too far!!

I think quite simply Obamacare should have been available to those who wanted it. It should have been an option. I'm sure there are some who have benefited from it. But there's millions who were totally screwed by it being forced and made mandatory for everyone.

"If you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance, period, end of story." - Barack Obama, July 17, 2009 = LIAR

Repeal and replace simultaneously is what I heard from Trump on Nov 16 in his interview with Lesley Stahl, and Paul Ryan confirmed that the GOP will repeal/replace Obamacare at same time, today Jan 13 on CNN town hall.

This "GOP "repeal AND DELAY" thing is something I've only heard from leftists.



I'll look into IRS exemption form 8965, but my guess is like with the subsidy you also suggested, most people will not qualify for it. Most likely the majority will have to fork out at least $650, when it's estimated 6 out of 10 working class people have less than $500 in savings.

There had been plans during the early Clinton years to extend healthcare to the millions of uninsured. The Republican response had been: What healthcare crisis? They fought tooth and nail to stop giving medical coverage to the uninsured then, just as they did with Obama, simply because their conservative ideology makes them reject any plan to give "free things" at taxpayer expense to the undeserving. Now, we're supposed to trust these same right wing idealogues?

if I made that much moolah every year I would not complain.

what makes you think they will do what they say? why do you trust those people? I've got a bridge back east i'd like to sell ya.

You mean trust things promised like: "If you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance, period, end of story." - Barack Obama, July 17, 2009?

But the issue is they say that they are going to repeal/replace simultaneously. As opposed to leftist claiming their plan is just to eliminate Obamacare and leave everyone without any coverage. That's what I was addressing. Do I trust that's really Trump's plan? Pretty much yes. Do I think he will be successful? Pretty much yes to that as well. I think the Donald knows how to get what he wants.

i can't trust that a party that has spent the last century fighting working-class health care tooth and nail, now has suddenly done a 180 and wants to extend heath care to the working class. I cannot believe them.

Who have I seen benefit from the ACA??

My cousins, who frankly resemble nothing so much as a caricature of Rush Limbaugh's stereotype of a welfare queen. They're decent enough girls, and they will at least generally rise to the occasion when the family is in need, but they don't wanna work. They want to surf the Internet and smoke dope all day. Yes, the idea of the working public paying to support their choices disgusts me. f**k them. They chose the fun bits of ghetto life-- they can take the consequences too. I don't love cooking and cleaning and making 'parent' a verb every minute-- it's called adulting. Hubby doesn't love engineering 40, 50, 60 hours a week. He'd rather stay home and hang out on Kongregate all day-- it's called adulting.

My MIL, who might have created 80% of her own financial problems, but did little to nothing to bring her medical situation on herself. She worked hard all her life; it's not her fault that Florida is a right-to-work state and 62 is about the age at which your employer of 15 years finds an excuse to lay you off and nobody else will hire you. Without the exchange and the ban on denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, she would have been up s**t creek.

Us. Our premiums went up about 60% and our coverage went down (and then we got a new high-deductible plan with an HSA and I'm frankly thrilled with it). But we still benefit, hugely, by not having to drain our resources to pay MIL's and cousins' medical bills or be the jerks who say, "Die faster, then, and reduce the surplus population."

Who have I seen harmed??

Several friends, who worked hard and made very little money and yet somehow always managed to barely get by and even scratch up a few thousand bucks to squirrel away for a rainy day. Before ACA, they would have been in debt for a lifetime if they had a serious medical problem. After ACA, they're bitter and hateful because being forced onto Medicaid destroyed their pride and self-respect and forced them to liquidate their savings, and now they can look forward to being screwed when the car breaks down instead.

There has to be a better way.