Sex Discrimination or justified anti-Harrassement measure?

Page 3 of 4 [ 50 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

10 Jul 2017, 8:21 am

All I will say is what I sort of said before:
I believe this is the line of thinking -THE POOL- have, and I agreed as for the reason. It was not -MY PERSONAL VIEW- it was what I believed they were doing and their motivations for doing it. There is a big difference.

jrjones, please stop aligning me with that train of thought to go on some sort of moral crusade.
You did this in the other thread; you used me and others as a prop to make yourself out to be a moral pillar of society. It's really unnecessary. It doesn't further the topic and it only serves yourself and can be construed as a deliberate personal attack rather than a genuine misunderstanding of the poster.

_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

10 Jul 2017, 10:56 am

TheSpectrum wrote:

This has been applied to many pools in Europe and a select few in the UK since the "refugee crisis" (as you put it!).
And IMO with good reason.Most (if not all) of the perpetrators of reported incidents involving migrants or refugees at pools were groups of men and boys.

A mixed group shows that the visitors can be trusted with the opposite sex at least on a surface level.
I don't think it applies to say, a man and his friend visiting. More a case of 3+ guys.

How does this post not blame the refugees for the harassment? You state your opinion to that effect.

TheSpectrum wrote:

Drake wrote:

It's to stop taharrush I expect.

Yup.

No reference to the thought process of the pool owners in your second post. You promote the use of language that is at best unnecessary and at worst bigoted.

I stand by my assertions, not your mischaracterizations.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,890
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

10 Jul 2017, 12:20 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

TheSpectrum wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

It seems more reasonable to a couple of posters, calling it taharrush rather than sexual harassment? You'd nod approvingly if the policy applied to men in general? Or does it seem like a more reasonable policy if applied to certain men?

You're manufacturing an argument here.

I am of the impression this is an anti-harassment measure because of taharrush, and to be PC it is being applied to men in general. If it must apply to all men in general, so be it. I at no point legitimised or endorsed the idea of using such a preventative measure to exclude certain ethnic minorities.

'taharush' means harassment; and since WP is an English forum and English doesn't lack a word for it; then you can simply use the word harassment instead.

Am I completely off base, or does their argument come down to "the ethnic minorities are to blame but in order to be PC, we can't exclude only them?"

I don't know if these guys want to push that line of reasoning or not. Someone put the word taharush out there in order to promote that idea, though.

I think there's little truth in that though, I mean the owners of the pools are known local personalities and politicians, and those also own NGOs which are getting MILLIONS of dollars from European countries in form of aids for refugees (just to keep them here lol).
It would sound racist and give a very bad image if they say "Syrian guys groups are not allowed" , no? Because refugees are a protected group in the public opinion and laws. But no one cares about "guys-only groups" because "men", as a group is not a protected group as a whole, so yeah, the safest way to exclude those guys-only groups is to exclude them all.

However, they do allow 2-3+ guys groups if they look "fine" and "mature" enough, my brother and his friends were able to enter, the guard stopped them at first then he asked for their ages, checked their IDs, and allowed them in.

But for me (in another place), while I was showing my coupon to the cashier, the guy asked if I am alone (he did sound he was about to kick me out) so once I pointed to my sister he suddenly changed his tone and was like "Ok, you're clear".

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

10 Jul 2017, 1:58 pm

It would sound bad to exclude only groups of Syrian guys. It also sounds bad to blame groups of Syrian guys in general for the actions of a few, particularly without looking at the perception of refugees and foreigners generally. Harassment is wrong, but people perceive it differently based on who does the harassing to whom.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

10 Jul 2017, 5:57 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

It would sound bad to exclude only groups of Syrian guys.

More than that...
Surely it would be against the law, in most countries, to discriminate ...
The lawyers would have a field day...

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

10 Jul 2017, 6:57 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_ ... egregation

Contemporary segregation

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

Chichikov
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,151
Location: UK

10 Jul 2017, 7:04 pm

I'll see your pool and raise you a festival

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40504452

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

10 Jul 2017, 11:56 pm

Chichikov wrote:

I'll see your pool and raise you a festival

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40504452

Way to advertise the perversity of the male population of Sweden to the world...
I had no idea the Swedish were such a despicable me society...

TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

11 Jul 2017, 5:32 am

Pepe wrote:

I had no idea the Swedish were such a despicable me society...

Clue: They're not!

_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.

LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

11 Jul 2017, 7:20 am

sly279 wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

"Male ego" gets activated among other men?

Man 1: "Are you someone's b***h or a man?"

Man 2: "Man".

Man 1: "OK. So go and [do something stupid]".

Definitely a factor, even when couched in more sophisticated language.

Never seen that in groups of men I've been in.

I would think it's very common, and explains a lot of male fighting, like bar fights.

Male 1: "Yo, bro. He's treating you like a b***h".

Male 2 then feels peer pressure to do something, or he's not a man in the eyes of the group.

TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

11 Jul 2017, 7:26 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

sly279 wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

"Male ego" gets activated among other men?

Man 1: "Are you someone's b***h or a man?"

Man 2: "Man".

Man 1: "OK. So go and [do something stupid]".

Definitely a factor, even when couched in more sophisticated language.

Never seen that in groups of men I've been in.

Working in a bar I can confirm this.
Dealing with a lot of real life situations would confirm this anyway!
School, college, work, partying...

_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.

sly279
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

11 Jul 2017, 9:21 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

sly279 wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

"Male ego" gets activated among other men?

Man 1: "Are you someone's b***h or a man?"

Man 2: "Man".

Man 1: "OK. So go and [do something stupid]".

Definitely a factor, even when couched in more sophisticated language.

Never seen that in groups of men I've been in.

Well we never went to bars or parties. Our fun was walking around , camping or going to the range to shoot. Or playing video games.
Never hung out with the jock types who such behavior would happen with. I guess.

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

11 Jul 2017, 12:58 pm

That sounds really cool. It shows how often people think certainty when they should think about probabilities.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

11 Jul 2017, 8:51 pm

TheSpectrum wrote:

Working in a bar I can confirm this.
Dealing with a lot of real life situations would confirm this anyway!
School, college, work, partying...

What sort of age demographic do these "macho men" come from?

TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

12 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

Pepe wrote:

TheSpectrum wrote:

Working in a bar I can confirm this.
Dealing with a lot of real life situations would confirm this anyway!
School, college, work, partying...

What sort of age demographic do these "macho men" come from?

Early 20's to late 30's, but I can only speak about my location and experiences.

_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,890
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

13 Jul 2017, 2:37 am

jrjones9933 wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation#Contemporary_segregation

Contemporary segregation

They missed Lebanon from the list.

Page 3 of 4 [ 50 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Jump to:

Sex Discrimination or justified anti-Harrassement measure? Post Reply New Topic

Sex Discrimination or justified anti-Harrassement measure?