Based on physics, what insights do you make about reality?

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Then which practice and which results ? Whatever it is they are doing I did not see clear from the titles what it actually is. Do they reach bliss ? Do they communicate with the dead ? Do they get to remember their past lives ? Do they get miraculous healing ? Do they get revelations about the future of world ? Do they get the addresses of their future spouses or any other personally useful revelations or orders what to do of their life ? or whatever it is, please say it clear. Just saying it is esoteric is no reason to stay confused. I see you tried to specify this later in your post but it still does not look clear. I had read from John of the Cross very long ago (before being evangelical christian) and I think it is rather close in philosophy with the case of Faustina (which I looked through after deconversion) which I commented there.

"One of the things things that sort of turned me out with the Seth material [...] it's a really nihilistic story of the human endeavor"

That does not fit the impression I had from the Seth teachings (I don't know those of Michael Newton). What I found there which may sound like this, rather means that our world is a "light" kind of reality compared to other worlds, so a sort of sandbox where we can experience things going wrong with the illusion of their importance in order to take lesson from there to become more responsible when we shall enter some more valuable realities. But I cannot see what problem you really have with tries of accounting for the nonsense of this world, as if you open your eyes you can really see many things going wrong in this world, so any philosophy that would claim all things were already done perfect down here would be factually incorrect.

Wise.

The truth I see is everything is a probability distribution, because of underlying random particle collision.

*where random could be true, indeterministic randomness, or deterministic randomness (just appearing to be random)

They, and other modern and scholarly magicians such as Stephen Skinner, Nick Farrell, and Peregrin Wildoak, are guys who are trying to come to terms with a conscious universe and their place in the universe. What Mark and Gordon are both big on, as well as Nick and Peregrin at a minimum (Stephen probably as well but I haven't heard him say a whole lot about it yet) are the self-development paths where you use esoteric knowledge first and foremost to resolve internal problems, ie. things deeper than modern psychology will typically reach, and you may work with angels or demons - almost in a pharmaceutical sense or a bit like data scalpels - to go in and work on various things.

Mark in particular has a lot of focus on working on one's own energetic health and integrity. He has plenty of books that focus on alchemy, that's one of his favorite ways of 'doing' and his Path of Alchemy is a pretty good guide to the seven basic spagyric tinctures. A lot of what he focuses on though are what might consider internal alchemy, different kinds of visual meditations that are meant to help clean your nervous system of certain types of tangles but it's also exercises that are meant to, at a different level, develop certain energy bodies in certain ways that would likely stay with you, through incarnations, as a part of the long-term building of your more long-term structure. As an nine-year student of mixed martial arts (particularly Filipino and Chinese) I think I'd really consider what Mark is teaching, and people like him, to be something quite similar to an internal Chi Gong. Israel Regardie's Middle Pillar is a great and pretty well known example of this sort of thing in practice. I'm sure a lot of what's in this paragraph sounds like BS, again - don't waste your time with it if you have convictions in this regard - but actually listening to Mark's lectures is helpful because you get to hear where he's coming from and I think most people get the sense pretty quickly that he's not the type of guy to do this stuff if it wasn't getting him the results that he wanted. At the same time he can be a boring listen for people who are looking for anything 'flashy' because a lot of what I think he's doing has much more slow and pervasive aims. There's some flash maybe in his talks on traditional Pennsylvania Folk and Grimoire magic but that's pretty much it and I suppose I'm personally as well more interested in the long term 'cooking down' of my own structures than the one-off rituals or how people in certain traditions have used magic to try solving problems (I'm still a bit skeptical when it comes to that sort of thing). One of my favorite of his workshop lectures that are on Youtube is Sanctus: Spirituality, The Secret Fire & Daily Life in that it start out rather seemingly vanilla and boring but has a real wealth of knowledge in it and toward the end of the first (of three) lectures he also offers a lot of really good books and authors, and particularly lists off one of the most influential (for me at least) books in the Hermetic genre which was Meditations on the Tarot - A Journey into Christian Hermeticism.

As far as Gordon White - the best way I'd put it is he's something of a magician's magician. He's always talking about different ways of moving the ball forward, criticizing older European forms of magic based on their synchretism and borrowing, trying to sort out tautology (which he believes Neoplatonism to be) from the actualities of what he believes is happening with respect to the energergetic structures of nature and how magical operation reflects them (this is tha part I thought you might find somewhat interesting), and as far as I know his primary goal is as a high-quality geek/nerd and experimenter. Like I said above he's one of those people whose just had that sort of curiosity about the universe that he wants to hunt down mysteries and solve puzzles. In his podcast he typically doesn't go super-deep into talking about his own practices, to some extent he did when I read Chaos Protocols and I think he does pick up traditional bits of Hermetic magic, of the variety that Israel Regardie, Stephen Skinner, etc. would recommend but he uses them, again, in an open-source sort of way (ie. outside of a traditional magical system) and pursues them in tandem with other things such as experimenting with sigils and seeing what ways of using them works and which don't (I think his favorite if I recall was drawing up several sigils at once, for the desired effect of not remembering which were which, and hanging them on a wall where he'd see them on a regular basis).

I'm sure a lot of this hasn't gotten much less abstract but I think I can possibly suggest that to get a less abstract sense of it it helps to understand some basic things about the Hermetic Qabalah or Qabalistic philosophy in general and what the ten spheres and twenty-two paths are all about. Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah was a very good read for me even if it only touched on the spheres and not the paths. Gareth Knight expounded on that with Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism, and I think to some extent - for people interested in studying the tarot first and foremost - Robert Wang recondensed a corpus similar to Knight's albeit in closer to 325 than 700 pages, which goes by the name of Qabalistic Tarot and so the paths and spheres get covered there at length in terms of the tarot cards they represent.

I think a whole other reason people would want to study this stuff, completely outside the context of 'is it real!?' is the historical and cultural aspect. There's so much there, like the names for the days of the week, the iconography that you see in a lot of cathedrals, all kinds of people seem to have studied this stuff to where really after a good read you can see some pretty bold signs of it all over the place (a bit like after the first time you might drop LSD or eat mushrooms and see just how much of the art around you was inspired by it).

I somehow doubt that was as satisfying a response as you might have wanted but I suppose that's really what the terrain is. It isn't particularly clear, people generally only pick these things up from different types of internal experience in stops and starts, and it seems like certain things will work but as far as I can tell it's really not something someone should do if they want to use it to 'get things', not even for moral reasons per say so much as that it takes so much work and dedication to get any results out of it at all that it'll only be worth doing if you're desire is to follow the old Greek injunction to 'know thyself' and accordingly from there know the Universe and the Gods. Otherwise, if you simply want to get something, doing the normal work of getting it by the usual means is probably a lot less effort.



Theresa of Avila's account of her experiences with the seven Interior Castles was also very similar and it sounds like she ran into a very similar sort of entity - ie. something of pure white light with almost bug-eyed love and affection for her. Part of what chased me down this path is that I met this same being within myself on several occasions. I also had in 2013 and 2014 several brushes with what seemed to be Isis/Sophia/Mary, vivid experiences, but I still can't be sure whether it was actually The Goddess or that same being, perhaps my Holy Guardian Angel, pulling my chain a bit.

My primary interest in this stuff is that at some level it is real, even if it were only real in the sense of being a vivid and actual neurological experience it's still there. Even if it were just a fluke of what one's internal chemical structure could yield its still an absolutely fascinating find. I start with that as my boiler plate but I also look outward from that and, from what I can sense of how natural systems organize, I can't help but consider that consciousness is interlaced with matter for as far as we can see. When we assume that's all crap I tend think we're assuming so from rather gaudy and old-fashioned assumptions about what the universe should be, ie. almost like the 'Either it's bible or it's just matter' in which both cases seem like they're full of straw to some extent albeit in different ways.

What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind.

-Homer J. Simpson

Another quick and hopefully useful interjection:

The guys I mentioned above, while being incredibly well-versed and well-learned across a lot of formal western esoteric traditions, are humble in the extreme about what it is they actually 'know' about the universe because I think they themselves sense that whatever you can figure out is incredibly hard won, the context of it is liable to change, that what they'd have to say even if they say it is only right in the most narrow of contexts, and it's part of why very few of them will talk about their esoteric experiences or try to make many particularly strong truth claims about the more hidden mechanics of the universe. Some of them will say bits and pieces about the Knowledge and Conversation of Holy Guardian Angel experience, some will suggest that it's something like the ground-floor of your consciousness (Mark says something along these lines in one of his lectures). There's also a small amount said about one's 'Guardian on the Threshold' - your accumulated shadow and something which David Lynch portrayed will in the beginning of and throughout the movie Eraserhead.

I've also heard it suggested that if one is going out of body there are zone guardians, ie. beings that people describe as being reminiscent of Egyptian deities and that they demand evidence of one's knowledge before they can pass - ie. keeping people out of certain places where they could either seriously harm themselves or do harm to others or to complex systems by mistake (Regardie has said a fair amount about this). There might also be some connection between these beings and what people have historically called Archons although they're not evil necessarily so much as being themselves energy junctions in the universe (conscious ones) and like our own brains and spheres of awareness are a bit like key-holders for uniting different behavioral options when we face our environments (mainly linked to our survival) they also have their consciousness chained to certain structural functions or tasks. Even at that though some of those ideas, particularly the one I just mentioned, are in something of a squishy category where yes - a lot of people agree that this is what something in particular they've observed barks like but it's no assurance really that what it looks like is absolutely what it is or that the context of it is necessarily quite what they might think (ie. the inner worlds people find, regardless of how vast, can be incredibly deceptive because the symbols or appearances of things are never the things themselves).

That's also part of why I think this sort of thing will always be a personal knowledge pursuit and that it'll likely never give us external innovation in quite the same way the natural sciences have. It may inform us toward a much richer sociology and we might reform our various civics philosophies according to better knowledge of the shape, flavor, and personality of the broader conscious universe (ideally to form those philosophies with a much greater understanding of what has consequence so we're not discovering our blind spots the hard way constantly), maybe it could also inform scientific ethics in a sort of Pythagorean 'prevent suffering' in natural materials under industrial processes kind of way, but that's probably about it.

All right so to say in short, this esoteric stuff is just meant to be of special interest to some people with some special needs and happening to have all the time of their life to invest themselves in that for unclear results as they happen to have otherwise found nothing better to do of their life... in these conditions I cannot see why you expected me to be interested in that.
Personally, apart from some Seth readings, I recently found one thing sort of esoteric but much more impressive: after suffering for many years the brain damage which was inflicted to me by a mad psychiatrist, I was recently in large part cured from that by means of Boji stones. Especially the first 4 sessions (a couple of hours each, with a pair of them that is not those I could continue with after this...) repaired my brain a great deal, I felt like I was reborn after a long time of zombie life. That was one of the most amazing times of my life. So a total of just 8-10 hours or so spread across a week, no teaching, just carrying these magic stones in hand while staying in half sleep had a tremendous effect. Otherwise I am generally much too busy developing my site, doing other things online or going out to events. Even though I'm completely free of my time to do whatever I want (and I hate all the people who once forced me to follow the system to get a PhD that would grant me the right to get a job where... I still would have heavy obligations to follow), I keep feeling that I'd need about 40 hours per day to complete the many things I desperately wish to do for clearly useful or even imperative goals with no waste. So, invitations for more time-consuming paths to dubious results ? no thanks.

It's mostly interesting from the standpoint of those asking the question - can you bring your own will into it at all rather than it just being a sort of luck or lottery or can you transform yourself at all with it? They're taking the slow road to resolving that and many of them have somewhat to their own satisfaction. Also yes, it's not hyper-responsive in the way a lot of new agers, mediums, etc. like to act as though it were. Also TY the suggestion that I've found nothing better to do with my life.

As for your story with the Boji stones - the trouble with that, while its a wonderful story and I'm glad you're feeling better, events like that generally aren't repeatable. Stellar results can definitely happen in a while when you haven't planned them or don't necessarily know they're going to happen, but it tends to be like a jolt of energy or information that zips through one's life and typically it's found that the object itself had less to do with the event than something that one can't put their finger on. At that rate though I can assure you that you're right - ie. the odd things that happen in life, unprovoked, will almost always be more impressive than anything you toiled away to figure out how to do because in the later case it's a bit like you trying to bring it through willfully of your own accord while in the former case forces much more, if not more powerful, oriented toward such tasks than is typically possible on just a human level brought it to pass.

The other piece perhaps, to really be trying to figure out what's going on behind the scenes in terms of such emergent effects and large/chaotic patterns of information, of the sort that consciousness likely belongs to, it's not going to be as tight or neat as particle physics as you're going to be trying to figure out how macro formations and dynamics interact and you'll be doing so along vectors that are a lot like weather patterns. In that sense it's a lot more like meteorology, which in its own right gets almost as bad of a rap as divination sometimes. This is part of why they also seem to go on, in the 21st century, talking about the classical four elements or salt, sulfur, mercury, prima materia, and whatever else - it's not matter they're discussing but rather a sort of observed behaviorism within it and even if somewhat historically pejoritized by way of Renaissance association those terms don't really seem to be all that much better or worse than anything new they could devise.

To that extent though I tend to have more trust in people who show a great deal of candor with themselves and show that they've done a lot to tease apart the meaning of their experiences, even if their results would be considered modest. That's partly why I listed the names I did - ie. as far as I can tell they're honest with themselves enough that I feel like I can trust their intelligence as well as their ability to either isolate a useful detail about how things work from an experience or alternately admit to themselves what they don't really know and are able to at least responsibly circumscribe a zone of possibility from that perspective. New agers, OTOH, might get a lot of great results but they also swallow loads of credulity (really pushing that 'faith like a mustard seed' bit from Matthew), but the really sad thing is even if they get great results sometimes they can't understand how or why it happened and worse still they have no sensible model either for failure so they tend to both succeed big and wipe out equally hard with quite a bit of damage to their sense of identity (I tend to think of that as the kamikaze approach).

For the faithful I suppose that doesn't matter. For people who actually want to understand how this stuff works, or even figure out what new questions they should ask in light of new evidence, it's a slower road albeit I get the impression that those of us who take the analytical approach probably will be rewarded with much more stable dividends (as well as how real understanding typically adds to character) and also far fewer incidence of major psychological crisis, or identity crisis when and if things don't work out the way they thought they should, but I suppose as well these are different temperaments as the saying goes different strokes for different folks. Some people want religion out of this sector of things, others want science or philosophy and if it's science or philosophy you want data points for it's probably good to have a list of practitioners who fit well with that even if what they have may be a lot more modest than bringing JK Rowling's world to life.

What ?? Indeed I won't try to repeat the brain damage I had just for the sake of checking if these stones will cure that once again. I did not expect in advance to meet that man who had these stones, reported his extrasensorial perceptions of what I had in my body and promised to me that his stones would "wash" that damage - a promise which sounded rather incredible to me at first as the trouble lasted for so long I thought it was irreversible, I only accepted to try by relying on his total confidence in the power of his stones to do that while I saw there was at least some reality in his claims. Then as I regularly keep going to use again his other pair of boji stones, while the benefit is often unclear, most of the times I still clearly feel that "it does something".
Now from my observations the only obstacle I can see to the repeatability of such benefits, is that we live in a world of nuts suffering a dire lack of attention to what works, and very bad in the art of planning anything properly.

I think what I was trying to say is if you inquired further with the guy, or people like him, about how the stones worked you'd hear some vague reference about chi, prana, or something about mystical or occult energy along those lines. You could bring in ten, fifty, maybe even hundred people, and more than likely no one else would have been healed aside from having some vague sense of feeling better. A lot of people have run at this sort of thing hoping that they could perform some basic scientific observation and see if they could figure out what's happening, for example with an energy healer, using censors and measurement devices hoping to find something in the feedback that could lead them to isolating a scientific cause. So far that doesn't seem to have worked out well for anyone whose tried. For enough people who'd demand evidence via currently known and accepted models of physics that's sufficient proof that energy healing isn't a real thing.

I've probably tarred any image of my having any practicality or common sense by now since I'm willing to spend the rest of my life performing exercises and studying monographs but I might perhaps suggest keeping with your own criticism - ie. forget looking further into what happened with the stones, perhaps just be thankful that it happened, and just focus on the natural sciences. From the sound of things you won't have the patience for the blurriness of where researching what happened to you would lead.

I'm sure we'll look forward to your thoughts on physics and the like in the coming months. On this topic I'd rather give you some space because it seems like I'm just winding you up and even though I don't really care whether or not you see the world my way and I'm fine with principled disagreement it seems like the conversation's hitting an impass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rRzTtP7Tc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWQfe__fNbs

An "Inconvenient Truth" to Medical Science as whole is that the Placebo, so much more than a Sugar Pill,
in effect is more affect in the Healing Force of Emotions at the Cellular level too. There is a great deal of
research that does show that the Will of Mind as Practiced in Positive ways of Emotional and Sensory Affect
is more powerful in some cases at least than any Medical Science Pill Manufactured to date; full stop and go.

And as far as 'Newagey' ways of Meditation in both Still and Moving Ways; Science shows
that Meditation is literally a Tool For a Fountain of Youth to Keep a 50 Year old Brain
Looking Like a 25 year old Brain in Empirically Measurable ways too.

And of course as at one time; Moving Meditation was considered
Woo to Regulate Human Emotions and Integrate Senses in Enhancing
Cognitive Executive Functioning in ways of Laser Focus and Greater Short
Term Working Memory Abilities as now Science Shows that Moving and Still Meditation
Is A way as Eastern Martial Arts already Brings as a way to gain Mastery over the Internal
Universe of Human Being now. I did it all innately, instinctually, and intuitively to heal myself
after years of Failure of my Psychiatrist and other Doctors to help me as a being who lived in total pain and
numb from Wake to Sleep in a Synergy of 19 Life Threatening Disorders; where I overcame all of them with
Meditative Flow in Zone Art in Writing Free Verse Poetry as well as Free Flowing Dance with no guidelines or
instructions either but Flow and Go more as time, distance and space disappears beyond Infinity as a State of Well Love/
Being in 'Heaven' always now. Let's just say it's literally true, too; my Psychiatrist was so inspired by what I personally was
able to do where he could provide with no pills that he quit his Private Practice and is now Teaching Movement Arts
for the Real all Natural Healing Force of that at a Medical Hospital in Southern Florida now. It's true, not only
did I Heal myself; I also Changed the Life of My Psychiatrist who as a Major in the Reserves of the Air Force
who dealt regularly with Combat Fatigue in folks coming Back from War in the Middle East, stated
that my case was the worst case he had ever encountered so much that he referred me to
a new procedure to implant a Vagal Nerve Stimulator so I would Feel something, anything
at all of Emotions, then. They also used TransCranial Magnetic Stimulation too but
my Insurance would cover neither, so, I was left to figure it out myself. Really,
the answer is so simple as we are animals who are still evolved to move freely
making no sounds invisible to both Predator and Prey to both escape and
hunt for subsistence now free. Nah; straight line moves and pills for cure
are both short-cuts limited for fuller Freedom within as Well Being now as it
is a use or lose it proposition; same reason I don't get cold in the Winter; I expose
myself to the Cold and Adapt. Human Beings on average have little idea what they can
Do as Mind over Matter as far as flesh and blood well being goes and I for one at least, Bring
Conclusive Evidence so far that it works with no fail to this point increasing in efficacy as i continue
to live an amazing life pain free at will of mind where now my whole being is trained to the point of
A Real Mind and Body Balancing Soul where i can slowly raise my arm and bring higher levels of bliss in
Bio-Feedback continuing ways of a Blessing of Life that is real. No one could provide me the answers although
they existed online somewhere for those who do keep a seek and find for answers. I continue the Tradition for Free.

You make assumptions, with which I disagree. These stones have real big healing power. He told me about some cases where they were strikingly effective on other people. Also that it is not just any boji stones. He insisted that the ones he has are exceptionally powerful, and specially matching into pairs. More precisely, that their power is only similar to that of the most powerful magnetizers (in the sense of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_ma ... agnetizers which is actually unrelated to the magnetism in physics; many magnetizers actually practice under the official label of Osteopathy). I have no reason to distrust his claims because of the partial verifications I have.

My thoughts on physics are in my web site, so it's up to you to read them there. It remains incomplete but when I'll be ready to add more I'll do it there as well.

I need to take my leave on the conversation then. Maybe in the future we can talk about this more but it sounds like you're certain that either mesmerism or boji stones are a unique phenomena. That really shouldn't be my concern and really all I can do is just wish you good luck in your research.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a unique phenomena". Things I described are simply what I stumbled on, which appeared quite remarkable... it seemed to me that your way was not so clear based on your own words, yet I'm not trying to judge anyone's way. Being certain ? well things seem to me quite likely the way I said, that's all. Now I hope to come back to my work on maths and physics soon...

Not sitting in a broader context of phenomena or other items people have figured out and found to be in keeping with other items in a larger category.


You know the saying 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?', that's part of why I really try to avoid making grandiose claims on either the things I'm studying or the authors, lecturers, and teachers whose opinions and candor I respect. The impression I get with this sphere of nature and how most people interact with it is that the interaction itself and one's capacity for it is much more like a sport, in the sense of needing cultivated prowess, than a technology that you can assemble and distribute for anyone's equal use.

The only thing I've heard that maybe gets immediate results but needs gun-range etiquette are the old Renaissance books like the Lesser Key of Solomon, Ars Goetia, Ars Almadel, Hemptameron, etc.. As far as setting up a triangle of art and calling up angels and demons though - I can't say I have any personal experience, really don't have any place for such a permanent room for those sorts of workings, so I can neither confirm nor deny albeit I can say with some certainty that Stephen Skinner and Joseph H Peterson are some of the more scholarly translators and commentators on that sort of thing.

That and, as far as animal magnetism is concerned, different cultures have different names and symbols for it. That's part of why I don't really think there's much likelihood that boji stones, and a few inventions from Anton Mesmer and Paracelsus, are the whole dynamic.

Is the geeky kid God?

If we're living in a simulation does that mean Heaven and Hell could also be simulated? We might die in this simulation and wake up in a simulation of Hell.