Are the .1% are shooting themselves in the foot by hording?

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BTDT
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11 Nov 2017, 1:38 pm

This isn't new. Many experts now say that the Irish Potato Famine wasn't just a crop failure, as the British overlords continued to export food out of farming areas even though the farmers were starving to death.



GnosticBishop
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11 Nov 2017, 1:49 pm

BTDT wrote:
This isn't new. Many experts now say that the Irish Potato Famine wasn't just a crop failure, as the British overlords continued to export food out of farming areas even though the farmers were starving to death.


Point taken.

Masters always care about themselves more than their serfs and slaves.

In our oligarchies, that many think are democracies, we are all serfs and slaves.

That is why I think we need either a French type revolution or a good set of sumptuary laws.

I prefer a revolution as then we could set a better shape to our socio economic demographic pyramid and stick to it.

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DL



RetroGamer87
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11 Nov 2017, 4:07 pm

Before you start a revolution I suggest you read Animal Farm.


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Hyeokgeose
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11 Nov 2017, 4:27 pm

The "0.1%" are largely there due to cronyism, are they not? Most of them inheriting someone else's wealth, and able to maintain wealth by receiving bails, special tax cuts, and basically being backed by politicians whom increase control over other businesses.
Think about it. Even Standard Oil was on the verge of collapsing and splintering off among shareholders (the government only expedited it). Nowadays, instead of collapsing and splintering off into new businesses and more competition, we see them getting bailed and receiving special treatment from the politicians they back.
For that reason, it comes to no surprise to me that the "0.1%" tend to vote for leftist policies, knowing that they will increase in power. They want more government and to become more intertwined with the government.

Now, there are those who are charitable and earn so much money that they don't know what to do with it. Bill Gates is an example of this. I would like to note that one should not mistake non-profit organizations for charity, for example, the Chan-Zuckerburg Initiative, which he largely uses on himself (people praised him for donating 99% of his shares to charity... but the reality is, he "donated" his shares to himself).

So, long answer short: they're not shooting themselves in the foot. Another reason to this would be that leftists happen to worship most of the 0.1%, and ironically, leftists are the ones who claim to be for income equality. So, when the very people that claim to be for income equality are the ones supporting the 0.1%, we know that the 0.1% are playing them correctly and therefore not shooting themselves in the foot; rather, they are becoming more powerful in this way. :twisted:


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BTDT
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11 Nov 2017, 4:52 pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 844333001/
And families passing large estates from one generation to the next would get the most concentrated and least justified tax break of all. The phased repeal of the estate tax in the House Republican measure would cost at least $172 billion over the next 10 years.

The current administration wants to cut back the estate tax, which prevents the rich from passing on their wealth to the next generation without paying taxes on the transfer.



RetroGamer87
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11 Nov 2017, 5:22 pm

Even without cronyism the rich would still have more opportunities to make more money.

Even in a society totally without cronyism the poor would still be at a disadvantage.


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GnosticBishop
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11 Nov 2017, 5:25 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Before you start a revolution I suggest you read Animal Farm.


I may not get what you got from it.

Just look at how many theists become atheists after reading the bible.

If you have a message to say to those here, say it my friend.

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DL



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11 Nov 2017, 5:30 pm

Hyeokgeose wrote:
The "0.1%" are largely there due to cronyism, are they not? Most of them inheriting someone else's wealth, and able to maintain wealth by receiving bails, special tax cuts, and basically being backed by politicians whom increase control over other businesses.
Think about it. Even Standard Oil was on the verge of collapsing and splintering off among shareholders (the government only expedited it). Nowadays, instead of collapsing and splintering off into new businesses and more competition, we see them getting bailed and receiving special treatment from the politicians they back.
For that reason, it comes to no surprise to me that the "0.1%" tend to vote for leftist policies, knowing that they will increase in power. They want more government and to become more intertwined with the government.

Now, there are those who are charitable and earn so much money that they don't know what to do with it. Bill Gates is an example of this. I would like to note that one should not mistake non-profit organizations for charity, for example, the Chan-Zuckerburg Initiative, which he largely uses on himself (people praised him for donating 99% of his shares to charity... but the reality is, he "donated" his shares to himself).

So, long answer short: they're not shooting themselves in the foot. Another reason to this would be that leftists happen to worship most of the 0.1%, and ironically, leftists are the ones who claim to be for income equality. So, when the very people that claim to be for income equality are the ones supporting the 0.1%, we know that the 0.1% are playing them correctly and therefore not shooting themselves in the foot; rather, they are becoming more powerful in this way. :twisted:


They are, and I agree with most of what you put, but they would gain even more cash and security if they stabilized the economy the way they can should they choose to do so.

To me, that is them shooting themselves in the foot as people are just about ready, I hope, to put those rich in their proper demographic position.

They will like it better if they move that way instead of waiting till we force them to do the right thing.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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11 Nov 2017, 5:32 pm

BTDT wrote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/08/dont-kill-estate-tax-editorials-debates/844333001/
And families passing large estates from one generation to the next would get the most concentrated and least justified tax break of all. The phased repeal of the estate tax in the House Republican measure would cost at least $172 billion over the next 10 years.

The current administration wants to cut back the estate tax, which prevents the rich from passing on their wealth to the next generation without paying taxes on the transfer.


Just another piece of the pie they gorge on.

If people let it happen, it shows how cowed Americans have become.

Slavery in America is alive and well.

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DL



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11 Nov 2017, 5:34 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Even without cronyism the rich would still have more opportunities to make more money.

Even in a society totally without cronyism the poor would still be at a disadvantage.


True.

Thanks to inherited wealth, there is no way for us to catch up to the super rich regardless of what we do.

Not taxing them just makes them richer and further out of justices reach.

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DL



BTDT
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11 Nov 2017, 5:35 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erincarlyl ... 5aab931ae6
According to Forbes, 68% of the top 400 on their list made their money. Which means that only 32% inherited it.



GnosticBishop
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11 Nov 2017, 5:54 pm

BTDT wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erincarlyle/2013/09/18/how-self-made-forbes-400-billionaires-earned-their-money/#d55aab931ae6
According to Forbes, 68% of the top 400 on their list made their money. Which means that only 32% inherited it.


True but look at the impact and future.

[youtube]http://billmoyers.com/episode/what-the-1-dont-want-you-to-know-2/[/youtube]

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DL



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11 Nov 2017, 6:01 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Before you start a revolution I suggest you read Animal Farm.


I may not get what you got from it.

Just look at how many theists become atheists after reading the bible.

If you have a message to say to those here, say it my friend.

Regards
DL

Animal farm depicts how easily those who start a revolution with intent to build a perfect society can fall into the same corruption as the rulers they rebelled against.


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Daniel89
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11 Nov 2017, 10:10 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
But the money doesn't do nothing if its sitting in a bank account the bank will be loaning it out, if its invested it will be creating jobs and if its spent its going back into the economy money is never really static. Poverty is the natural state of humanity, since we have started to become capitalist since the industrial revolution we have not only become wealthier but also more free to the point that never in any society at any point in history have people been better off than they have in western capitalist countries. Poverty is not the fault of capitalist its the fault of the parents who choose to have children they cannot look after.


Poverty is not the natural state of humanity.

As to children. Have you not noticed how capitalism has Western nations not reproducing enough to maintain their population?

They do not do so, in part, because of the costs involved and the fact that the rich are hoarding instead of using a trickle up ideology that would stabilize our socio economic demographic pyramid.

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DL


So cavemen were not in poverty? All the wealth we have comes from innovation, capitalism has proven to be the best model for innovation.



RetroGamer87
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11 Nov 2017, 10:53 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
But the money doesn't do nothing if its sitting in a bank account the bank will be loaning it out, if its invested it will be creating jobs and if its spent its going back into the economy money is never really static. Poverty is the natural state of humanity, since we have started to become capitalist since the industrial revolution we have not only become wealthier but also more free to the point that never in any society at any point in history have people been better off than they have in western capitalist countries. Poverty is not the fault of capitalist its the fault of the parents who choose to have children they cannot look after.


Poverty is not the natural state of humanity.

As to children. Have you not noticed how capitalism has Western nations not reproducing enough to maintain their population?

They do not do so, in part, because of the costs involved and the fact that the rich are hoarding instead of using a trickle up ideology that would stabilize our socio economic demographic pyramid.

Regards
DL


So cavemen were not in poverty? All the wealth we have comes from innovation, capitalism has proven to be the best model for innovation.


What's so bad about being a caveman? Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.


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GnosticBishop
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12 Nov 2017, 9:18 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Before you start a revolution I suggest you read Animal Farm.


I may not get what you got from it.

Just look at how many theists become atheists after reading the bible.

If you have a message to say to those here, say it my friend.

Regards
DL

Animal farm depicts how easily those who start a revolution with intent to build a perfect society can fall into the same corruption as the rulers they rebelled against.


True, but there are success stories like the French Revolution that arguably led to Western democracy and the U.S. civil war that ended slavery.

I hope you would not want slavery to still be with us or no democratic system in the world.

Regards
DL