Why Do Conservative Men lnsist On Making Themselves Unlovabl
funeralxempire
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“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
"Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell
Seems like this might get locked based on the title.
Still, I do sympathize with anti-feminist conservatives to some extent. If I were as charmless as them, then I too would long for the days when women had lower standards and less self-respect! Women learning that they don't have to be straight and don't have to settle was a horrible development for the anti-feminist men of the world
_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
- Thucydides
Still, I do sympathize with anti-feminist conservatives to some extent. If I were as charmless as them, then I too would long for the days when women had lower standards and less self-respect! Women learning that they don't have to be straight and don't have to settle was a horrible development for the anti-feminist men of the world
Anti-feminist doesn't mean conservative.
_________________
Current college student looking for a new job.
"Capitalism" or free-market != oppression
The issue is, conservative doesn't mean conservative anymore. It doesn't even mean reactionary at this point. It's now a code word which, yes, does mean anti-feminist, as well as anti-diversity, anti-choice, etc.
We're going to need a new word to describe people who are what-used-to-be-known-as-conservative, because at this point, it means the opposite of the dictionary definition.
_________________
When the sun rises, look for silent fading stars.
I posted this article elsewhere from back in January, but it seems relevant here. A lot of the stuff I’m seeing reminds me of the Christian fundamentalist culture I was a part of 15-20 years ago which demonstrates conservative men’s shift to the right. Maybe I’ll talk about my experiences in a separate post.
Young men and women no longer agree on anything. What happened?
Something strange is happening between Gen Z men and women. Over the past decade, poll after poll has found that young people are growing more and more divided by gender on a host of political issues. Since 2014, women between the ages of 18 and 29 have steadily become more liberal each year, while young men have not. Today, female Gen Zers are more likely than their male counterparts to vote, care more about political issues, and participate in social movements and protests.
While the gender gap is an enduring feature of American politics, at no time in the past quarter century has there been such a rapid divergence between the views of young men and women. The startling speed of the change suggests something more significant is going on than just new demographic patterns, such as rising rates of education or declining adherence to a religion — the change points to some kind of cataclysmal event. After speaking with more than 20 Gen Zers, my colleagues at the Survey Center on American Life and I found that among women, no event was more influential to their political development than the #MeToo movement.
In 2017, women around the world began speaking out about their experiences with sexual assault and harassment. Gen Zers were then in high school and college, and for them, the movement came at a formative moment. "Luckily I had that all over social media to shape the way I look at dating and men," a 21-year-old woman told us about #MeToo. She said it allowed her "to use other people's experiences to form a sense of putting a guard up." A 20-year-old woman offered a similar take — that #MeToo empowered her to stand up for herself: "I think it makes me less of a doormat."
As I've written previously, the #MeToo movement united women politically. Although the challenges women face vary dramatically in the US, sexual harassment is a ubiquitous experience impacting women across lines of social class, politics, age, and race. Eight in 10 women say they have been sexually harassed at some point in their lives — and addressing that reality quickly became central for women. After the inauguration of Donald Trump, hundreds of thousands of women marched on Washington in the largest single-day protest in American history.
But while women were rallying together, many Gen Z men began to feel like society was turning against them. As recently as 2019, less than one-third of young men said that they faced discrimination, according to Pew, but today, close to half of young men believe they face at least some discrimination. In a 2020 survey by the research organization PRRI, half of men agreed with the statement: "These days society seems to punish men just for acting like men."
It increasingly feels like Gen Z men and women are living on different planets, each guided by the belief that they are navigating uniquely hostile terrain — and understanding why is crucial to bridging the gap.
#MeToo feminism
The #MeToo movement established a sense of solidarity among young women. A survey conducted in 2022 found that two-thirds of young women believe that in most or in every way, what happens to women in the US will have a bearing on their own lives — an idea known as "linked fate" in sociology. But this sentiment was not shared by older women: Only 36% of women older than 65 said the same. This bond has bled into Gen Z women's politics, especially around issues like abortion. A survey we conducted after Roe v. Wade was overturned and just before the 2022 midterms found that no issue mattered more for young women than abortion: 61% said it was a critical concern, while only 32% of young men said the same. In the 2022 midterm elections, all young voters strongly supported Democratic candidates, but young women demonstrated much greater support than men.
There was not a single issue that young men cared about significantly more than young women.
Gen Z women have also united around the importance of female leadership and representation. A recent Pew poll found that 72% of women aged 18 to 29 believe there are too few women serving in "high political offices," a steep jump from the roughly half of women over 50 and less than half of young men who said the same. More than seven in 10 young women said that the lack of female representation in political office is because women are held to higher standards than men.
This newfound solidarity among women is also showing up in the workplace. For decades a strong majority of men and women alike had reported a clear preference for a male boss. But the percentage of women who said they preferred a male boss plummeted 12 points between 2014 and 2017. By that year, the year of the most recent polling, a majority of women reported preferring a female boss for the first time.
At the same time, women's dissatisfaction with the status quo has only intensified. In 2016, 61% of women said they were satisfied with the way women are treated in American society, according to a Gallup survey. Today, that has dropped to 44%.
Men shift to the right
As women's political priorities have solidified, young men's priorities have melted into mush. Surveys consistently show that young men are far less likely than women to say any particular issue is personally important to them. A survey we conducted last year found that young women expressed statistically significant greater concern for 11 out of 15 different issues, including drug addiction, crime, climate change, and gun violence. There was not a single issue that young men cared about significantly more than young women.
Young men are also unhappy. For a growing number, feminism has less to do with promoting gender equality and more to do with simply attacking men. A 2022 survey by the Southern Poverty Law Center found that 46% of Democratic men under 50 agreed that feminism has done more harm than good — even more Republican men agreed. In our recent poll, roughly one in four male Gen Zers said they have experienced more gender discrimination than older men. And less than half of Gen Z men identified as feminists, with only half saying they support the #MeToo movement, compared to 72% of women.
One young man we interviewed said he didn't pay much attention to #MeToo: "It just seemed like a bit of buzz going on around celebrities, and awful things are happening in the world all the time. If I did ponder, it would bring me down and so I just choose to not even pay attention." Another said #MeToo was just something he picked up from "a woman's study class" in college but not anything that he thinks much about.
The lack of interest could be because Gen Z men have their own issues. Richard Reeves, the founder of the American Institute for Boys and Men, has meticulously documented the challenges facing young men in America: They are struggling more in school, are less likely than women to go to and graduate from college, have fewer close friends than previous generations, and are four times as likely to commit suicide than women. Reeves argues that this state of affairs requires that we hold two seemingly contradictory ideas at once: Men at the highest rungs of the economic ladder are still advantaged by a system that perpetuates gender inequality, while men on the lower rungs of society face unique challenges because they are men.
Out of a sense of increased insecurity, more young men are adopting a zero-sum view of gender equality — if women gain, men will inevitably lose.
While women have turned to the left for answers to their problems, men are finding support on the right. Trump helped redefine conservatism as a distinctly masculine ideology, stoking grievances and directing young men's frustration toward liberals and feminists. There are signs the message is resonating: Republican affiliation among white men aged 18 to 24 jumped from 28% in 2019 to 41% in 2023, according to a Harvard Youth Poll. Outside politics, right-leaning figures such as Andrew Tate, Elon Musk, and Jordan Peterson are attracting young men looking for an ideological home.
Most young men are probably not interested in making America great again, but they do feel acutely the need to secure a place for themselves in a culture that readily identifies male advantage but ignores the challenges young men face. Out of a sense of increased insecurity, more young men are adopting a zero-sum view of gender equality — if women gain, men will inevitably lose. It's an outlook that makes them defensive, encourages them to ignore or overlook enduring challenges women face in society, and can even spur misogyny. As one 35-year-old man told Pew in 2022 about #MeToo: "Too many people are taking advantage of a serious situation because it's trendy or they are greedy or just want attention." And this attitude has real-world consequences: In the online gaming world, 75% of Gen Z women have reported experiencing harassment.
No Winners
An oft-cited statistic that conveys the enduring absurdity of the gender gap is that until very recently, there were more CEOs named John than CEOs who are women. Across most industries, from politics to academia, men in American society still control more resources, earn higher wages, and enjoy more prestige. But few young men have any experience in the boardroom, and in the classroom, it's their female peers who are crushing it.
But both genders are feeling increasingly precarious — and it's causing them to drift further apart. A recent Washington Post editorial lamented what this growing political divide means for dating and marriage: If Gen Z men and women can't agree on politics, it's going to get harder for them to find a partner. But if anything, that understates the problem. Based on our interviews, there appears to be a growing eagerness among both young men and women to blame their problems on each other. And a society in which men and women see their interests as irrevocably opposed is not one that can last.
These graphs are in the article:
https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-g ... 024-1?IR=T
Still, I do sympathize with anti-feminist conservatives to some extent. If I were as charmless as them, then I too would long for the days when women had lower standards and less self-respect! Women learning that they don't have to be straight and don't have to settle was a horrible development for the anti-feminist men of the world
Anti-feminist doesn't mean conservative.
In my experience the Venn Diagram of 'anti-feminists' and 'conservatives' is nearly a perfect circle. Opposition to feminism is inherently conservative or reactionary. I've met many people who would not call themselves big or small C conservatives who oppose feminism. There are anti-feminist centrists, libertarians, nationalists, and members of any other group that accept or endorse conservative viewpoints. I tend to lump those all together as 'conservative' in this context, because, functionally and fundamentally, they are. The centrist only accepts left-of-center positions on a case by case basis; and most feminists are much too radical for the average centrist's liking. Libertarians are adamantly anti-equality; if women do not have the same status as men, it must be because they do not work hard enough in the market--or something; acting like the market isn't meritocratic is an intolerable heresy to the libertarian--and few feminists are detached enough from reality to think the market is a meritocracy. Nationalists oppose feminism because free-thinking, independent women do not make for loyal womb slaves eagerly waiting to pump out babies in the name of glorious homeland.
There's lots of reasons to oppose feminism. None of them are good--and almost all of them are conservative--hence my generalizing.
Certainly somewhere there must be a some number of liberals or progressives or leftists who consider themselves anti-feminist, but they aren't exactly welcome for long in those political circles.
_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
- Thucydides
I'll take a wild guess and say that it has something to do with the heuristic that states: "Men focus on power-based hierarchies, while women focus on supportive relational networks". Example:
HER: "We need to talk about our relationship."
HIM: "Shuddup and make me a sandwich!"
It is all a very simplistic idealization, and I could very well be wrong; but that is how it all looks to me.
_________________
Still, I do sympathize with anti-feminist conservatives to some extent. If I were as charmless as them, then I too would long for the days when women had lower standards and less self-respect! Women learning that they don't have to be straight and don't have to settle was a horrible development for the anti-feminist men of the world
Anti-feminist doesn't mean conservative.
In my experience the Venn Diagram of 'anti-feminists' and 'conservatives' is nearly a perfect circle. Opposition to feminism is inherently conservative or reactionary. I've met many people who would not call themselves big or small C conservatives who oppose feminism. There are anti-feminist centrists, libertarians, nationalists, and members of any other group that accept or endorse conservative viewpoints. I tend to lump those all together as 'conservative' in this context, because, functionally and fundamentally, they are. The centrist only accepts left-of-center positions on a case by case basis; and most feminists are much too radical for the average centrist's liking. Libertarians are adamantly anti-equality; if women do not have the same status as men, it must be because they do not work hard enough in the market--or something; acting like the market isn't meritocratic is an intolerable heresy to the libertarian--and few feminists are detached enough from reality to think the market is a meritocracy. Nationalists oppose feminism because free-thinking, independent women do not make for loyal womb slaves eagerly waiting to pump out babies in the name of glorious homeland.
There's lots of reasons to oppose feminism. None of them are good--and almost all of them are conservative--hence my generalizing.
Certainly somewhere there must be a some number of liberals or progressives or leftists who consider themselves anti-feminist, but they aren't exactly welcome for long in those political circles.
Politics is a spectrum. That's where I'm in agreement with you.
What I put in bold above is what I disagree with. I don't consider feminism as is practiced today to be good. I think feminism on the women's side and RedPill/MensRights/MGTOW on the men's side should be both tossed in the bin and start to acknowledge that men's and women's issues are both valid social-political causes.
A lot of the challenges both and in-between have are the same challenges but manifested in a different way for each.
_________________
Current college student looking for a new job.
"Capitalism" or free-market != oppression
Sweetleaf
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Posts: 34,833
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Still, I do sympathize with anti-feminist conservatives to some extent. If I were as charmless as them, then I too would long for the days when women had lower standards and less self-respect! Women learning that they don't have to be straight and don't have to settle was a horrible development for the anti-feminist men of the world
Anti-feminist doesn't mean conservative.
In my experience the Venn Diagram of 'anti-feminists' and 'conservatives' is nearly a perfect circle. Opposition to feminism is inherently conservative or reactionary. I've met many people who would not call themselves big or small C conservatives who oppose feminism. There are anti-feminist centrists, libertarians, nationalists, and members of any other group that accept or endorse conservative viewpoints. I tend to lump those all together as 'conservative' in this context, because, functionally and fundamentally, they are. The centrist only accepts left-of-center positions on a case by case basis; and most feminists are much too radical for the average centrist's liking. Libertarians are adamantly anti-equality; if women do not have the same status as men, it must be because they do not work hard enough in the market--or something; acting like the market isn't meritocratic is an intolerable heresy to the libertarian--and few feminists are detached enough from reality to think the market is a meritocracy. Nationalists oppose feminism because free-thinking, independent women do not make for loyal womb slaves eagerly waiting to pump out babies in the name of glorious homeland.
There's lots of reasons to oppose feminism. None of them are good--and almost all of them are conservative--hence my generalizing.
Certainly somewhere there must be a some number of liberals or progressives or leftists who consider themselves anti-feminist, but they aren't exactly welcome for long in those political circles.
Politics is a spectrum. That's where I'm in agreement with you.
What I put in bold above is what I disagree with. I don't consider feminism as is practiced today to be good. I think feminism on the women's side and RedPill/MensRights/MGTOW on the men's side should be both tossed in the bin and start to acknowledge that men's and women's issues are both valid social-political causes.
A lot of the challenges both and in-between have are the same challenges but manifested in a different way for each.
How is feminism today practiced in a way that's not good?
_________________
We won't go back.
I think there’s a tendency to equate feminism with extremism. Most feminists, including myself, are not radical or extreme. We care about equal rights for everyone. Major topics of interest are abortion laws, sexual violence, intimate partner violence, media representation of women, intersectional systems of oppression, and LGBTQ+ issues among other things. Due to my background, I’m also interested in sexism as it pertains to religion.
Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Apr 2024, 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
auntblabby
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