God Damn America - that's what Obama's pastor preached

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Griff
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16 Mar 2008, 2:49 pm

The outrage I'm seeing here reminds me of some of Al Sharpton's crusades.

Perhaps racism is racism, black or white, but political correctness is political correctness, black or white.

Pastor Wright comes from a very racially divisive background, and this has left him with a distorted view on the subject of race relations. This is going to affect how he discusses the subject. It is false, however, to suggest that this is all that the guy thinks about from the time he wakes up to when he turns his lights out at night. He thinks and talks about other things, or else we'd be keeping him in a mental ward to prevent him from inflicting injuries upon himself.

This has got to be the most vile tactic I've seen so far in the campaign. When Don Imus was torn down for a stray remark made on his radio show, I was tempted to push this little button I have on my hallucination machine that will cause the world to come to an end. I have it here, you know, right next to the F1 key. I will push it if I get too pissed off. I swear I will! I have my finger hovering over it right now. You will all be destroyed by fire if I don't hear a few words of common sense NOW!

Do you hear me, hypocrites? You're not going to get away with this crap anymore. You have your own strain of political correctness. It's just as useless and STUPID. You and Al Sharpton's ilk deserve each other. You must be distantly related.

Political correctness is political correctness, whether it's white, black, shitbrown, purple, pink, beige, or cyan.

If black racism is called political correctness, then white political correctness must be racism! You're racist, ladies and gents! Wake up. This is reality. You are what you hate. You will be punished in FIRE!

Pastor Wright said something that many take as offensive. This is not commendable of him. It has, however, been blown far out of proportion to what it is. It does not compare to pedophilia, and it does not justify every conceivable attack on Obama's character or these STUPID puns on his name. I'm not even particularly bothered by it if he's keeping it within the walls of his own church.

Whether or not there are any legitimate criticisms of Obama's eligibility to hold office, none of them have been discussed here. Just racist backbiting of the worst kind.

zendell
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16 Mar 2008, 4:20 pm

IdahoAspie wrote:

Well, in that case, you should not vote for any Catholics. Because Catholics do support their religion, even in spite of what some of the Preists and Cardanals have done.

Does this just apply to Catholics or is it a double standard that doesn't apply to other religions? Protestant pastors have been caught with prostitutes and I'm sure some have molested children. Does that mean I shouldn't vote for Protestants either? Also, how can you blame an entire church for the actions of a few members who broke the rules?

IdahoAspie wrote:

Catholics also don't believe women are equal to men. Isn't that sexist? Why do they stay in a church, and support a church that doesn't believe women are equal to men?

No. It's not sexist. All the major religions I know of teach that God appointed different roles for each gender. The roles complement each other and help make a strong family. What if spouses disagree? They can't vote cause it would be 1-1. If God appoints the man in charge, then this isn't a problem. The feminist movement lead to women arguing, disrespecting, and disobeying their husbands which ruined marriages, resulting in divorce and forcing children to suffer by having to grow up in broken homes. It is NOT sexist to teach that women should submit to their husbands. It's what is needed for orderly families and a civilized well functioning society.

zendell
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16 Mar 2008, 4:26 pm

Griff wrote:

Whether or not there are any legitimate criticisms of Obama's eligibility to hold office, none of them have been discussed here. Just racist backbiting of the worst kind.

For the record, my post had absolutely nothing to do with Obama's race. I am NOT a racist. Had something similar been pointed out about John McCain, would you even be mentioning racism?

Griff
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16 Mar 2008, 5:46 pm

zendell wrote:

For the record, my post had absolutely nothing to do with Obama's race. I am NOT a racist. Had something similar been pointed out about John McCain, would you even be mentioning racism?

I actually would.

I have stated my objections to the term, "political correctness," because it's too sweeping a phrase. It's loaded to the point of uselessness. However, say that Obama does get nominated, happened to be ahead for a while in the general election, and McCain's pastor were to say, "It's not fair. They're just voting for him because he's black." I might not agree with it, but the gloves would be off if someone like Al Sharpton were to rear up and get the black community embroiled in an outrage, vastly out of proportion with what his pastor actually meant by that statement. It would piss me off for the same reasons that the crap that has transpired in this thread pisses me off. It's wrong. It's just plain wrong.

I stick to my guns.

nominalist
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16 Mar 2008, 6:02 pm

I am extremely sympathetic to members of oppressed populations having a voice and being able to express their anger. Since I am not African American, it would be presumptuous of me to judge this pastor's experiences.

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Apatura
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16 Mar 2008, 6:25 pm

nominalist wrote:

I think most of the people on this board have felt oppressed and have been bullied (most polls here show at least 90%). I know what it is like to be spat on, laughed at, mocked, called names unfit to print, have people move to whole other parts of the room to not have to sit or be near me. I was ostracized and bullied so badly that I have PTSD from it. But I don't believe in vengeance, not even in the form of hateful speech. "Eye for an eye, tooth for tooth" is not a legitimate formula for me, because it will just become a fruitless cycle of hatred and resentment. Oppression isn't an excuse for "damning" a whole country and other race of people, no matter what your background.

Griff
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16 Mar 2008, 8:37 pm

Apatura wrote:

"Eye for an eye, tooth for tooth" is not a legitimate formula for me, because it will just become a fruitless cycle of hatred and resentment.

So what is the purpose of your anger toward Reverend Wright? I know you have political motives, but I'm interested in hearing you lie yourself into a corner.

Quote:

Oppression isn't an excuse for "damning" a whole country and other race of people, no matter what your background.

Offense to your scruples is no excuse for outright distortion. He chose this phrasing to pose a contrast with the cliche, "God Bless America." The cliche has come to mean something more like, "God damn anyone who wants to alter the status quo," so it stands to reason, in metaphorical speech, that "God damn America" isn't meant as anything other than a call for change. Although this reasoning sounds complicated, neurotypicals process it naturally. When the insinuations of a phrase fills them with a sense of unease, they'll spit out an answering phrase that "cancels them out." It sounds funny, but this is how rhetoric works. Pastor Wright wasn't literally condemning the American population to Hellfire.

Frankly, I think that you knew this.

velodog
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16 Mar 2008, 11:09 pm

IdahoAspie wrote:

Griff wrote:

velodog wrote:

So, racism isn't racism if it's being practiced by Blacks?

Yes, those black people shouldn't be so racist toward us. We should retaliate and declare white supremacy over them.

Have fun defending your White honor, sir. For my part, I just find the entire issue ridiculous.

Being Pro-White, isn't the same as being Being Pro-Black. The reason being that being Pro-White means that you think you are superior to Blacks and other races. The Pro-Black movement doesn't imply or state that Black people are greater than other races. It is simply for the ending of mistreatment of Blacks, and helping Blacks get their communities together, and to reestablish and have pride of their heritage that was so destroyed by US Politics over the last 400 years.

One is predjudiced, the other is pride in who you are.

Idaho Aspie I do take issue with your assertion, as I read it, that blacks are apparently not capable of malignant violent racist acts. Do some quick searches on 1) the Zebra killings, the group that committed these killings had ideological roots and ties with the Nation of Islam 2) the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult and 3)Clifford McCree. If you choose to look these up I would appreciate an explanation as to how the actions of the people cited are any less malignant or criminal than those of the Ku Klux Klan.

IdahoAspie
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16 Mar 2008, 11:27 pm

Apatura wrote:

nominalist wrote:

He was illustrating a point, he obviously doesn't believe in damning all the people, if he did, he would not have joined the Marines and helped to defend it. He was saying it was wrong to say God was for this behavior. It was not meant literally.

nominalist
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16 Mar 2008, 11:27 pm

Apatura wrote:

But I don't believe in vengeance, not even in the form of hateful speech. "Eye for an eye, tooth for tooth" is not a legitimate formula for me, because it will just become a fruitless cycle of hatred and resentment. Oppression isn't an excuse for "damning" a whole country and other race of people, no matter what your background.

I still say that it is not my place, as a white man, to criticize an African American leader. When aspies refer to themselves as an advanced evolutionary prototype, then I feel as though I, as an aspie, have a right to criticize.

IdahoAspie
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16 Mar 2008, 11:28 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

IdahoAspie wrote:

US Politics over the last 400 years.

Opps, I should say American (not US) politics toward Africans for the last 400. Slavery was around in the Americas before the US.

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16 Mar 2008, 11:35 pm

velodog wrote:

IdahoAspie wrote:

Griff wrote:

velodog wrote:

So, racism isn't racism if it's being practiced by Blacks?

I did not say that no Blacks are racist. Some of them are. I just said that being pro-black is not the same as being pro-white, it has a different history. Being Pro-Gay, does not mean someone opposes heterosexuality, it means they believe that Gays should be helped to be equal to eveyone else. Same here, being Pro-Black, means you are for helping Blacks, not being racist, as does the term Pro-White.

I don't think Rev. Wright was being racist, he was being dramatic about what racists using the guise of Christianity did to Blacks in its history.

If Reverend Wright was a Racist, what racist group was he a member of?

velodog
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17 Mar 2008, 1:07 am

Idaho Aspie , thanks for that last bit of clarification. apparently our views are not quite as far apart as I thought. As far as Rev. Wright being a racist the saying "you are known by the company you keep" as well as "if you lie down with dogs you might wake up with fleas" apply, in my view. I don't believe membership in any organization is a prerequisite to having any particular belief or set of beliefs. Louis Farrakhan has made his worldview very well known. Anyone endorsing him or his beliefs opens themselves up to the same type of scrutiny that would likely be applied to a person or organization that would consort with, or endorse the views of Tom Metzger or David Duke.

IdahoAspie
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17 Mar 2008, 1:36 am

velodog wrote:

Thanks veldog;

Obama has not endorsed the political beliefs of Farrakhan. Nor has he endorsed the political views of Rev. Wright.

I don't think Rev. Wright is a racist. I think he just has an overly passionate way of speaking. A guy that hated american would not serve in its military. There is a big difference between a spirtual belief, and a political belief.

I think if you could film and cherry pick the religious leaders of our political leaders you could do to them what they did to Rev. Wright. Religious view are always in contridiction with current political correctness, be it Mormon, Jew, Catholic, or Methodist.

If you believe someone is who they hang with, then you must believe Jesus was a prostitute, a crook, a tax collector, a theif, and a sinner.

NewportBeachDude
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17 Mar 2008, 2:05 am

merr wrote:

Idaho Aspie- THANK YOU for saying that. It's so true. I just want to point out to people the Pastor's age. He's an older man, probably the same age as my mother, and let me say the America he grew up in was very different than the America Obama grew up in or any of the younger generations.

I dont know if what Obama's pastor said was really racist in the terms of "hate whites." To me it sounded like he was just pointing out how racist America used to be. But really isnt that just fact?

My mother grew up in North Carolina in the 1950s. She had rocks thrown at her while walking to (segregated)school with little kids calling her a n btch. I can imagined the pastor is so impassioned about this (ie saying hillary has never been called the n word or been passed over by a taxi) because he experienced it. Back then they used to put in the children's textbooks that blacks werent people or werent as evolved. My mother said that those things hurt badly, but she was able to move on because of the experiences she had later. Maybe the Pastor didnt have any positive experiences to change his views?

Similarily I grew up in Virginia in the 90s, and my experiences with whites have been totally different. I went to school with them, best friends with them, am dating a white guy, etc. I see a totally different America than Pastor Wright.

Im not goin to say that the Pastor was right, I dont see what half of what he said had to do with Obama, and I think he prejudged America too soon in terms of how they would vote. But I think that everything he said comes from resentment from the past and not from hatred.

People from the older generation will always harbor what they experiences as teens and young adults.

It's a totally different world now, and I feel bad that this isnt the world he got to experience.

Merr, I respect your opinions, but don't feel you can use an African-American preacher's age to justify these words in 2008. With age comes wisdom. And, he stands in a pulpit every week to preach the word of Jesus, who taught forgiveness and acceptance. If he's that resentful, he needs to take off his cloth because he's not truly a man of God.

The AA community has major issues and preachers like him don't make them any better. Obama is not responsible for his words, but many in American will hold it against Obama come voting day.

NewportBeachDude
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17 Mar 2008, 2:09 am

IdahoAspie wrote:

Griff wrote:

velodog wrote:

So, racism isn't racism if it's being practiced by Blacks?

Being Pro-White, isn't the same as being Being Pro-Black. The reason being that being Pro-White means that you think you are superior to Blacks and other races. One is predjudiced, the other is pride in who you are.

Exactly. And, being pro-Black doesn't require you to have a swastika tattoo or wear a bedsheet over your head. :lol:

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