[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Mona Pereth
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31 Dec 2023, 2:07 am

Jakki wrote:
And am just imagining all the people , whom are jewish and are big in the media empire of which , i have been made aware of many ,are probably giving ""movie extras""
that are out of work .. jobs ..To go to locations outside of US gov. buildings to stand around as protesters ? :roll:

Do you have any evidence for this, apart from the fact that you personally don't know any Jews who would participate in these protests?

This sounds to me like the kind of conspiracy theory Alex Jones would come up with.


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31 Dec 2023, 3:19 am

I spent 8 years in the Middle East, seven in Saudi Arabia and one in Beirut, Lebanon. I was a teacher and worked at international American schools.

I arrived in Saudi Arabia in June of 1991 during the First Gulf War. Iraq had invaded Kuwait. At the time of my arrival, an Allied coalition had begun a bombing campaign of Iraqi military targets. Shortly after my arrival, they kicked off Operation Desert Storm, which was the invasion and liberation of Kuwait.

The first Arab I ever met was a Palestinian who taught Arabic at Dhaharan Hills Elementary in Dhaharan, Saudi Arabia. Dhaharan was an Aramco Oil Company community for Aramco corporate employees.

I will refer to him as "Abdul" which is not his real name.

Unlike a lot of Palestinian refugees, the bulk of whom resided in Lebanon in vast refugee camps which still exist to this day, Abdul had Jordanian citizenship. His goal at the time I met him was to work until he was 60 and then retire to Jordan where he would own rental properties and an olive grove.

At the time I met him, he asked me why the U.S. State Department was so set on a two state solution. I didn't know the answer. He asked me to imagine my classroom as my country. He asked me to imagine how one day, someone occupied my country and all the space that had previously been mine was now reduced to a single student's desk.

How would I feel about a two state solution under these circumstances?

When I asked him what he thought the proper solution was for peace to be made between the Israelis and the Palestinians, he told me that Palestine needed peace so that they could arm, train, and gather allies before grinding Israel into the dust.

Although our conversation had started out civilly enough, by the time he was finished, he was literally screaming.

I don't know what the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is. This latest surge in violence is part of a conflict that dates back to the founding of Israel in 1948.



The_Face_of_Boo
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31 Dec 2023, 3:21 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hezbollah doesn’t have a such record as far as I know yet, but I won’t bet much on their morals.
These have brought nothing but death since 2005: Assassinations, killing journalists, July war 2006 with Israel (for the sake of a pig child killer), coup d’état in 2008, clashes, death threats… etc
I would rather prefer to split the country into two, North Lebanon and South Lebanon (or they can call it Minor Iran or something) rather than to continue to coexist with these lunatics.

How much support is there, in Lebanon, for such a split?


Almost all the Christians I know express of wanting some form of split. The idea is extremely popular among Christians and even many Muslims/Druze (not Hezbollah) are starting talking about it.

The ones who oppose the idea the most are… Hezbollah and their allies; of course the abuser would always refuse to grant divorce easily.

https://themedialine.org/mideast-mindse ... h-dilemma/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/18/pa ... nons-woes/


Wild discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/commen ... nons_woes/

I am personally very pro-partition, for whatever it takes to separate us from Hezbollah.
I am not convinced federalism would solve anything tho, the US is federal but under one army, the senator of Texas for instance can’t decide to launch rockets at Mexico for instance; otherwise Mexico would declare war on all the US, not just on Texas. Therefore the only solution for the Hezbollah problem is full partition apart from them, Hezbollah would probably become the national army of this new Southern Minor-Iran country.
So they can enjoy their wet dream for the Christ/Mahdi comeback against the Anti-Christ.


Yes, we both would end up as mini-countries, Qatar is a mini country yet very stable and successful tho. North Lebanon may simply be called Lebanon (I am pretty sure Hezbollah wouldn’t include this word if they get their own nation), but a smaller version getting rid of its tumor at last.



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31 Dec 2023, 5:02 am

So much crazy.

Makes me glad I’m in such a sparsely populated country. If we ever have that much crazy anywhere in the populated South all we have to do is pack up and roll out and go homestead somewhere in the snowy North and just ignore all the crazies doing their crazy things. Could get satellite internet and stay up to date on things, OR not and just live an off grid life with no worries about whatever the crazies are or are not doing. Plenty of space for that.

Perhaps part of the reason for all this conflict elsewhere is population density and lack of space between people who cannot ever get along. If I lived anywhere in a region like that it would be my goal to gtfo and head to Canada. I’d rather work Very Hard and be poor in a major population centre Or live in the middle of f*****g nowhere in the snow than deal with all that BS. It’s little wonder there’s such a long waiting list to get into Canada.


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31 Dec 2023, 5:06 am

goldfish21 wrote:
So much crazy.
It’s little wonder there’s such a long waiting list to get into Canada.

TRUE


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The_Face_of_Boo
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31 Dec 2023, 6:16 am

goldfish21 wrote:
So much crazy.

Makes me glad I’m in such a sparsely populated country. If we ever have that much crazy anywhere in the populated South all we have to do is pack up and roll out and go homestead somewhere in the snowy North and just ignore all the crazies doing their crazy things. Could get satellite internet and stay up to date on things, OR not and just live an off grid life with no worries about whatever the crazies are or are not doing. Plenty of space for that.

Perhaps part of the reason for all this conflict elsewhere is population density and lack of space between people who cannot ever get along. If I lived anywhere in a region like that it would be my goal to gtfo and head to Canada. I’d rather work Very Hard and be poor in a major population centre Or live in the middle of f*****g nowhere in the snow than deal with all that BS. It’s little wonder there’s such a long waiting list to get into Canada.


The US went through such phase historically; progressive North vs backward Southern Confederate filled with crazy religious dogma.
Except in our case, the backward Southern Hezbollah state is far stronger militarily.

I don’t think South Koreans can coexist with North Koreans anymore in a same democratic nation; despite them being the same people, sharing same ancient history and language.
It would take generations of “de-brainwashing” of Northerns perhaps.
In some cases, partition is really the best way possible.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 31 Dec 2023, 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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31 Dec 2023, 7:30 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I don’t think South Koreans can coexist with North Koreans anymore in a same democratic nation; despite them being the same people, sharing same ancient history and language.
It would take generations of “de-brainwashing” of Northerns perhaps.
In some cases, partition is really the best way possible.

Yeah, even de-brainwashing of people in the former DDR didn't happen overnight, if in fact it isn't still ongoing.


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31 Dec 2023, 7:40 am

David1346 wrote:
<etc.>
At the time I met him ("Abdul"), he asked me why the U.S. State Department was so set on a two state solution. I didn't know the answer. He asked me to imagine my classroom as my country. He asked me to imagine how one day, someone occupied my country and all the space that had previously been mine was now reduced to a single student's desk.

How would I feel about a two state solution under these circumstances?

When I asked him what he thought the proper solution was for peace to be made between the Israelis and the Palestinians, he told me that Palestine needed peace so that they could arm, train, and gather allies before grinding Israel into the dust.

Although our conversation had started out civilly enough, by the time he was finished, he was literally screaming.

I don't know what the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is. This latest surge in violence is part of a conflict that dates back to the founding of Israel in 1948.

Nevertheless, for the most part, American participants in this discussion have either (one or two) expressed strongly anti-Palestinian and probably Islamophobic attitudes consistent with the more extreme views held by Israelis, or (one or two) expressed extreme anti-Zionist and possibly anti-Semitic attitudes in favor of the people in Gaza, or (the vast majority) have basically lectured us to support the Two-State Solution, suggesting this is the only reasonable point of view for a Westerner with sincere empathy for those on both sides of this conflict.

As for myself, I don't think a Two-State Solution can or will happen, or if it does, then the Palestinian side will only agree to it for the reasons given above. Luckily, somebody with direct personal experience with the Middle Eastern situation has told the story so I don't have to. Maybe some of those of us who feel the need to preach about the "correct" point of view will reconsider, and understand why some of us have an extremely cynical take on the whole matter and are unable to invest ourselves emotionally in the "plight" of the Palestinians.


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31 Dec 2023, 8:06 am

David1346 wrote:
When I asked him what he thought the proper solution was for peace to be made between the Israelis and the Palestinians, he told me that Palestine needed peace so that they could arm, train, and gather allies before grinding Israel into the dust.


As your anecdote shows there are idiots on both sides in this conflict. I think we have all at some point met similar fanatics on the Israeli side. I think the solution to this conflict is to brake the cycle of "revenge" by taking away the power from the feuding parts and hand it over to the UN. This means that the US has to step down and let justice has its way. With boots on the ground UN could prevent the Palestinians from throwing stones or making more serious attacks against the Israelis while simultaneously stop the Israeli harresements, shootings of civivilian Palestinians, collective punishment and the destruction of water supplies etc.


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31 Dec 2023, 9:32 am

There was this very interesting banned book by the title of “Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists” yet I could get it via online means way back) I read long ago. It talks about Hezbollah cells operating in the US.

This conference on this book was held on 15th March, 2005. The day after the biggest human protest in Lebanon which led to the series of events to end the Syrian occupation. For those who don’t know, the 14th March massive protest was a response against the Hezbollah’s 8th March 2005 massive gathering for supporting the Syrian occupation. From those two massive protest the *cultural* split started to appear, giving birth to two political alliances named after these 2 dates.

After the Syrian withdrawal, I would say the 14th March leaders made the mistake of thinking they can “Lebanize” Hezbollah, all it brought is more assassinations and violence from them (the Hezbollah). You just can’t tame scorpion. We should had realized back then that the fact they wanted for the Syrian presence to go on then their identity lies elsewhere.

One of the book’s authors, Barbara Newman, is very visionary in Mideast politics, she was so spot on Hezbollah, this is a very interesting part of the conference I uploaded to youtube. Nothing she said there back then has changed ever since.



This is full video of the conference https://www.c-span.org/video/?186061-1/ ... terrorists



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31 Dec 2023, 10:05 am

BillyTree wrote:
David1346 wrote:
When I asked him what he thought the proper solution was for peace to be made between the Israelis and the Palestinians, he told me that Palestine needed peace so that they could arm, train, and gather allies before grinding Israel into the dust.


As your anecdote shows there are idiots on both sides in this conflict. I think we have all at some point met similar fanatics on the Israeli side. I think the solution to this conflict is to brake the cycle of "revenge" by taking away the power from the feuding parts and hand it over to the UN. This means that the US has to step down and let justice has its way. With boots on the ground UN could prevent the Palestinians from throwing stones or making more serious attacks against the Israelis while simultaneously stop the Israeli harresements, shootings of civivilian Palestinians, collective punishment and the destruction of water supplies etc.

It's also possible that you are unable to accept that "Abdul"'s views are in fact typical of Palestinians, so you resort to calling him an idiot.

As for the UN guaranteeing peace. Disregarding the obvious, that the UN has been blatantly hostile to Israel throughout its history, the only way such a guarantee could be implemented would be through some sort of massive military presence (I mention the UN's anti-Zionism because such a military presence could never be seen as other than hostile by Israel).

An arguably more practical way to achieve the same thing would be for the US to do this. Frankly the US is far more capable. However, the US knows exactly how that would play out.

Dream on.


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31 Dec 2023, 10:56 am

^ Why do you think the UN and various humanitarian organizations have had a problem with the Israeli government for quite some time? It appears like they have good reasons based on the evidence that’s been provided in this and other threads.

As various polls have demonstrated, not everyone in Palestine agrees with “Abdul’s” viewpoint. Well, maybe they do now.


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31 Dec 2023, 11:53 am

Regarding Hezbollah and the suggestion that the country be partitioned, I taught at an international American school in Beirut, Lebanon for a year. This was after having taught at another American school in Saudi Arabia for 7 years.

I remember watching Hezbollah attacks against Israeli convoys in what was then occupied Southern Lebanon. Israel had occupied southern Lebanon as a safety buffer following the Syrian occupation of the rest of the country.

It was a very odd experience to live in Lebanon at that time. All major intersections were occupied by the Syrian Army. There was usually a tank or an armored personnel carrier with troops in a sandbagged emplacement. For the most part they didn't hinder traffic.

The local news portrayed Hezbollah as freedom fighters because they were launching attacks against the Israeli occupiers as well as the Christian militia which supported the Israelis.

I was in Beirut on the evening of the last day of school when Israeli jets thundered overhead and began bombing Beirut's infrastructure - electrical generators, bridges, cell phone towers etc. Having been a civilian veteran of the First Gulf War in Saudi Arabia where we (civilians) had to contend with incoming Iraqi scud missiles by seeking cover, at the sound of the first explosions followed by the ack-ack-ack of Syrian anti-aircraft gun crews (the nearest of which was just one block away from my faculty apartment); I rolled out of bed and crawled under the sturdy desk of my faculty apartment.

From my position under the desk, I could see orange tracer fire rising into the nigh sky. There were no civil defense sirens as there would have been in Saudi Arabia. There were instead the distant wails of first responders as police, firefighters, and ambulances responded to sites that had been bombed.

As I later found out, a lot of these first responders died that night. While they were tending to the wounded and putting out fires, a 2nd wave of aircraft hit the same targets.

Following these attacks, there was a lot of anger against Israel as well as the United States which was seen as an Israeli ally. For a time, my school was surrounded by an angry mob. It's fortunate that we had 9 foot walls topped with barbed wire. We also had security at the gates.

Despite this, someone threw a grenade over one of the walls. The detonation didn't hurt anyone since school was not in session.

A mob tried to storm the U.S. Consulate but was beaten back by the Lebanese police. Some of the rioters were shot and killed.

Although I had a two year contract to work in Beirut, as soon as the international airport opened a few days later, I self evacuated; hightailing it back to the states. I am now blacklisted by the ISS, International Schools Services, for having broken contract. (Eyeroll)

So ended my 8 year international teaching career. I have been stateside since June of 1999 and don't miss being in the Middle East.

What a lot of people outside Lebanon don't understand is that the Lebanese government is completely ineffective, more so since their economy imploded. Israel continues to blame the government for its failure to control Hezbollah but the reality is that the government has never had control over this group.

Lebanon was artificially created as a country by the French following the end of WWI. As part of the old Ottoman Empire, the French basically did a land grab and pulled disparate regions together to form Lebanon. The land grab included Druze, Muslim, and Christian areas. None of these groups really get along.

The country drafted its constitution in 1926. Given how there are 18 religious sects in the country, politics in Lebanon has always been a sectarian quagmire. The Lebanese Constitution for example states that the three key government positions of president, prime minister, and speaker must be split between a Maronite Christian, a Sunni Muslim, and a Shia Muslim. The seats in Parliament's have been equally divided between Christians, Muslims, and Druze.

While this mandate seems to share an equal distribution of power among some of the leading sects, the reality is that the government is weak, corrupt, and patronage based. Men in powerful positions have given government jobs to loyalist supporters. Promotion within the government has always been based upon patronage and loyalty (to the patron) as opposed to actual merit and skill.

A graphic example of government incompetence was seen in 2020 when a warehouse at a port in Beirut abruptly exploded with the force of 2,750 tons of dynamite. 218 people were killed. 20,000 were injured. 300,000 were rendered homeless. Property damage has been estimated at $15 billion.

The explosion occurred in Warehouse 12. For reasons unknown, someone thought that it would be a good idea to store ammonium nitrate and fireworks next to a massive grain elevator. The ammonium nitrate came from a freighter that had developed engine problems back in 2013. After offloading its cargo, the owners abandoned the ship and the fertilizer was allowed to sit in the warehouse for seven years.

From a safety viewpoint, the fertilizer should have been stored in a concrete non-combustible building. It was instead stored in a regular warehouse. When the fireworks caught fire, the heat caused the ammonium nitrate to release gases and to generate more heat. When enough heat was generated, there was an explosion which was magnified because of the nearby grain silo.

To date, nobody in the Lebanese government has ever been held accountable for this disaster.

The explosion coupled with the Covid pandemic have completely gutted Lebanon's economy.

An astounding half of all people in Beirut are unemployed. In March of 2020, the government defaulted on a $31 billion dollar debt. You may have seen on the news that Lebanese banks have made it increasingly difficult for depositors to withdraw money. As memory serves, there have been at least 2 bank robberies in which the robbers were only robbing the bank of money from their own accounts.

The banks have long since stopped lending money and given the circumstances, have been unable to attract new depositors. As if all of this wasn't bad enough, government insolvency has resulted in fuel shortages which in turn have led to rolling electrical blackouts throughout Beirut. Unless homes or businesses have their own generators, most neighborhoods only get 1-2 hours of electricity per day.

Fuel shortages have made it difficult for filtration plants to provide clean water. The lack of fuel has crippled the transportation sector's ability to deliver food and other supplies. Can you imagine the problems facing hospitals when they don't have the power to run incubators for premature babies or dialysis machines?

Lebanon is a failed state. I honestly don't know how it can recover under the current circumstances.



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31 Dec 2023, 12:13 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ Why do you think the UN and various humanitarian organizations have had a problem with the Israeli government for quite some time? It appears like they have good reasons based on the evidence that’s been provided in this and other threads.

This argument would take too much time to construct, and I probably don't have the proper research tools anyway. I tried to touch on one well-documented aspect here:

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=417015&view=previous

TwilightPrincess wrote:
As various polls have demonstrated, not everyone in Palestine agrees with “Abdul’s” viewpoint. Well, maybe they do now.

I think the predominance of the "Abdul" point of view has been clearly evident to one and all since the failure of the Oslo Accords. Of course, there are some Palestinians who disagree, just as there are Jews who oppose Zionism.

But what @David1346 reported is basically correct, even if it calls the feasibility of the Two State Solution into question.

EDIT @David1346, if you think my understanding is a misrepresentation of what you said, please speak up, thanks!


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31 Dec 2023, 1:27 pm

Quote:
A graphic example of government incompetence was seen in 2020 when a warehouse at a port in Beirut abruptly exploded with the force of 2,750 tons of dynamite. 218 people were killed. 20,000 were injured. 300,000 were rendered homeless. Property damage has been estimated at $15 billion.

The explosion occurred in Warehouse 12. For reasons unknown, someone thought that it would be a good idea to store ammonium nitrate and fireworks next to a massive grain elevator. The ammonium nitrate came from a freighter that had developed engine problems back in 2013. After offloading its cargo, the owners abandoned the ship and the fertilizer was allowed to sit in the warehouse for seven years.


Well, it is no secret that Hezbollah used the port to smuggle/store stuff for them; it is also known that the Assad regime used plenty of Nitrate Ammonium in his war against the rebels.

In 9 years it dropped around 82000 barrels containing this material.

https://reliefweb.int/report/syrian-ara ... bs-killing


https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... last-cargo


The quantity that blasted the port is estimated to be way less than the initial figure, so apparently someone was using the stash. The Hezbollah wanted to make it sound as a case of negligence and corruption but apparently it is way more than that. Its presence there was no coincidence.
Since you apparently still follow Lebanese news, you are probably aware that it was Hezbollah and its ally Amal who halted every attempt of investigation into the Beirut blast case.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 31 Dec 2023, 1:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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31 Dec 2023, 5:11 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There was this very interesting banned book by the title of “Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists” yet I could get it via online means way back) I read long ago. It talks about Hezbollah cells operating in the US.

This conference on this book was held on 15th March, 2005. The day after the biggest human protest in Lebanon which led to the series of events to end the Syrian occupation. For those who don’t know, the 14th March massive protest was a response against the Hezbollah’s 8th March 2005 massive gathering for supporting the Syrian occupation. From those two massive protest the *cultural* split started to appear, giving birth to two political alliances named after these 2 dates.

After the Syrian withdrawal, I would say the 14th March leaders made the mistake of thinking they can “Lebanize” Hezbollah, all it brought is more assassinations and violence from them (the Hezbollah). You just can’t tame scorpion. We should had realized back then that the fact they wanted for the Syrian presence to go on then their identity lies elsewhere.

One of the book’s authors, Barbara Newman, is very visionary in Mideast politics, she was so spot on Hezbollah, this is a very interesting part of the conference I uploaded to youtube. Nothing she said there back then has changed ever since.



This is full video of the conference https://www.c-span.org/video/?186061-1/ ... terrorists


Why was the book banned?