BBC News: 'autism caused by sodium valproate'

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funeralxempire
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09 Feb 2024, 12:43 pm

JamesW wrote:
It may be the case that valproate (or other drugs taken in pregnancy) causes autism. It is the case that valproate (or other drugs taken in pregnancy) causes autism-like symptoms.


I believe in these situations it's referred to as syndromic autism. There might be a broader set of impacts and an identifiable cause, but the defining features of autism are among the symptoms. If they meet the diagnostic criteria for autism that means they're autistic, no?

Idiopathic (non-syndromic) autism is the more common form of autism but that doesn't mean secondary (syndromic) autism doesn't count.

It's possible at some point autism might be untangled as more causes are identified. Copy number variations, single gene mutations, chromosomal differences, teratogenic impacts, etc are all identified as relevant in some instances of autism.

Fetal valproate spectrum disorder is one example of a syndrome caused by a teratogen that often includes autism.

22q11.2 deletion syndrome, Fragile X and a host of other genetic conditions include syndromic autism as a common symptom.


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14 Feb 2024, 12:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
JamesW wrote:
1. Autism is not brain damage.
Brain damage may produce autism-like symptoms.

Very true.

I have a good friend who's social functioning is.. way less than ideal. Several of his behaviours could be mistaken for ASD as they're textbook examples, but I know from mutual friends that have known him for decades that he was normally functioning before he was involved in a serious car crash and banged his head hard enough to knock a few screws loose and cause some brain damage. Seriously. And then it all gets worse the more he drinks -> which is the case for almost anyone, NT or not.. binge drinking destroys gut flora and impairs social functioning. (I posted an article or study about that once, it's not just a theory or guess.)


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Nades
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14 Feb 2024, 1:16 pm

JamesW wrote:
1. Autism is not brain damage.

2. Autism is not the parents' fault.

Anything that feeds either of these narratives is harmful to autistic people.

Your opinion may differ. I've said my piece and I'm out.


Hard to prove or disprove any of these points.

There might actually be a problem within the brains of autistics.

Parents might make autism much worse by handling an autistic child poorly, it might even be possible a parent can directly cause mild autism by parenting techniques which gets passed on through the generations. While it's suggested there is a genetic link, I find it very suspicious that no definitive genes have been found yet leading me to think environmental causes that play out through the family tree perhaps factor in more than genetics.

It's well known that aggressive anti-social behaviour is often passed on from parent to child afterall, genetics completely aside. I don't see why autism which is the polar opposite might be too different. We learn a lot of our social skills from our parents and if they have poor social skills to begin with then I can see how it's possible for a child to learn equally poor social skills with no genetics playing any factor.....in theory.



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14 Feb 2024, 3:43 pm

Fenn wrote:
In the USA the DSM is used to diagnose Autism. And that is exactly about observable behavior. No more, no less. In Europe they have different rules and I live in the USA so I don’t happen to know about them. Twin Studies show a 98 percent correlation when one identical twin is Autistic then the other twin is as well. Strong evidence for a genetic component. But still not a 100 percent correlation in every case. .


^^^ This is my understanding too...there is so much conflicting research at the moment it's difficult to keep up



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14 Feb 2024, 4:18 pm

Nades wrote:
JamesW wrote:
1. Autism is not brain damage.

2. Autism is not the parents' fault.

Anything that feeds either of these narratives is harmful to autistic people.

Your opinion may differ. I've said my piece and I'm out.


Hard to prove or disprove any of these points.

There might actually be a problem within the brains of autistics.

Parents might make autism much worse by handling an autistic child poorly, it might even be possible a parent can directly cause mild autism by parenting techniques which gets passed on through the generations. While it's suggested there is a genetic link, I find it very suspicious that no definitive genes have been found yet leading me to think environmental causes that play out through the family tree perhaps factor in more than genetics.

It's well known that aggressive anti-social behaviour is often passed on from parent to child afterall, genetics completely aside. I don't see why autism which is the polar opposite might be too different. We learn a lot of our social skills from our parents and if they have poor social skills to begin with then I can see how it's possible for a child to learn equally poor social skills with no genetics playing any factor.....in theory.

It's hereditary - but - genes aren't the only thing inherited from mother to child. See thread here discussing recent medical study about causes of Autism: viewtopic.php?t=418692


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