Bobbi Kristina Another life lost to that nasty drug Heroin!

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when i practiced medicine, i took care of heroin addicts ( in the 80's, 90's), so i have real-life experience, too. they weren't paranoid. i guess it could happen, but if the effects were as dismal as you portray, no one would do it. when someone tries it and finds it to be a nice experience, they will discount all you say. better to point out the risks of hepatitis b, hiv, and overdose.

I guess that explains Rush "Mr. Oxycotin" Limbaugh.

The late author William Burroughs was famously a heroin addict for most of his life. In his later years, he had a regular prescription for the methadone clinic. As his father and uncles were all raging alcoholics, and that his son, Billy, had died from his own addictions and alcoholism, I think a case can be made for a genetic predisposition for addiction.

It's not a nice experience. That's the point I am making. People who say it's nice are lying! Don't believe them. Not very many people did do it back in the eighties. That was when Ecstasy was first becoming big and people were raving about how great it was. They liked that particular one. Crank and weed were a couple of others. Heroin was definitely NOT mainstream by any stretch of the imagination. Every once in a while, when I'd go out, I saw a couple people languishing on heroin. They were just really out of it. One attacked a band I went to see with a broken beer bottle and he had absolutely no clue whatsover what he was doing. He collapsed soon after. He had been nodding on and off the entire evening. This was, like, when I was seventeen years old. I thought, I never seen anybody that out of it on drugs before now and it was kinda weird to see someone in that state.
People started taking it in larger numbers after it was romanticized in the media. That is when it got distorted into this great thing it isn't, in fact, quite the opposite and it made people want to take it and it's all because the cartels who manufacture it want the addicts so they can make money off of heroin. That's the only thing behind it. That's why it was in the media so much, to create a market because hardly anyone liked it before then.
Being around it some and hearing about people's experiences with it at the time was enough to convince me it would absolutely suck taking it and I hope others would feel the same way if they are told the ugly truth about it. I would like to curtail the drug's market because of the lies surrounding it.

The paranoia occurs when you are in that immobile state only you can't do anything. You can't move. It's like you are sitting there and you can think and panic inside and you are aware of how the drug is messing with your mind but you cannot move and you don't know when it will end. Ugh. I've heard that it's horrible. That is what I meant by paranoid. During detox, most people aren't in that immobile state, are they, unless they are given something to help them detox.

the folks i saw were active users, not in detox. saw them for things like blood clots and pregnancy.

But you're relying on second-hand evidence. You don't actually know.

one of the known side effects is euphoria (feeling very, very good). this has been the description i got from users. how do you know it's not your contacts who are lying?

While some users may report an intense rush, or an acute transcendent state of euphoria, diacetylmorphine ("heroin") tolerance develops quickly, and increased doses are needed in order to achieve the same effects. Eventually, sufficiently large doses of diacetylmorphine can cause fatal respiratory depression, kidney failure, or both.

Anyone who defends the use of heroin, or attempts to deprecate the known hazards of its use, are likely ignorant of its actual effects, and are deluded in the belief that it is only a "recreational" drug.

Lose a few friends to the needle and spoon first, before you judge those of us who are against it.

i am against it, which you will see if you read all my posts on this thread. i just think it should be fought honestly.

Musical Reflection:

I may be the only person on this thread who has actually done heroin. I've shot it and smoked it. I shot it back in the early 80's when me and my friends were shooting dope. Heroin, t's and blues, perlude, and coke. I tried that again once last year with my friend who is a heroin addict. It's still the same. I've snorted it with her several times too. I can tell you anything you want to know about heroin.

Yes, it can be very warm and fuzzy, but it's also VERY DANGROUS. I never got ON it, I only chipped, even back in the day. I've seen smack dopesickness and it's nothing to play with. You get dopesick when you get addicted and can't get any. It's hell. It's worse than hell and it lasts for days and days. She's on methadone now, at the clinic, thank God. She's getting her life back together. Hopefully she will taper off the methadone before too much longer, but this is good enough for now though.

The first time you do heroin you will throw up. Maybe the next few times too. You know how opiates make you vomit sometimes, and at the hospital when you are in pain and they give you demerol they also give you phenergan with it? That's because a high dose of opiates makes you vomit. Heroin is an opiate. You will puke. It will not be fun. Usually when you shoot it you get the freight train at first. You get that with any needle, but a smack freight train is great. Then you nod. Nodding is NOT sleeping although it looks like it. You are fully conscious kind of. You can move, you don't want to. You feel like you CANNOT open your eyes. It's very hard to. This is when you usually vomit. So you are trying to keep your eyes open from your nod and you want to sit back and chill cause you are high and feel great but you are also puking. For a good ten or fifteen minutes. Till you get to the point of dry heaves. You get this from snorting enough to get a nod too.

Also, you don't always nod when you just do little amounts. And heroin doesn't usually make you all f****d up so you are obviously high. In small amounts it can almost act like speed, making you very talkative and energetic. Like one Lortab or Vicodin. How much is small depends on the user. What is small for my friend would be enough to make me nod and just chill for a couple hours.

After you do it a few times you stop vomiting. You also stop pooping. It makes it hard to pee for some people too. Opiates are that way. You have to take colace and a laxative occasionally so you don't end up impacted. Many people on it find that they can almost poop put cant get it out so they have to put on a glove and reach in and pull it out. I never had to do that. I took a laxative. I was also a chipper.

When you are on it and you go over about 24 hours without it you start getting sick. You have a dry hacking cough and a runny nose and eyes. Then you start throwing up and have the runs. Then you hurt all over and sweat and have chills. You feel like the flu but worse. You get severe body pains and cramps. All over, especially your stomach. It's worse than any actual illness cause you know if you just did one shot you would feel better. Lots of people go from snorting to shooting while dopesick. When you have the congested nose and it's runny and somebody brings you a monkey killer so you can feel better you cannot snort it. Thats when many people shoot it for the first time. I shot it for the first time the very first time I did it cause thats what my friends did.

I honestly didn't think it was the best high I ever had. That was quaaludes. I loved them. Everybody has their own feeling that they enjoy the most. I enjoyed heroin but I wouldn't choose it over something I liked better. I would prefer taking an adderall to doing heroin because I like the adderall feeling better. I don't really do drugs now, but lots of my friends do. I'll do some with them from time to time because I enjoy it and it's recreational. I absolutely hate meth. Tried it a few times and it's terrible. Don't know what people see in it. It's NOTHING like coke. Heroin is ok but it's not my idea of the best time there is. The freight train with it is awesome but that lasts less than a minute and it's not worth all the other crap that goes with shooting dope to get that very brief feeling. Although that feeling is the very one I think about any time I think of shooting dope. I don't do that now, but even when I'm discussing it I remember that. It's why some people get so addicted to needles, they want the train. I know that to this day, decades after I used to shoot dope on a regular basis, any time they take my blood I do watch them and when they do hit a vein my stomach drops and I briefly anticipate that freight train and I miss it for a minute. Well, I miss it a lot, but I'd never do that again like I did. I did that with my friend for old times sake, just to see if it was still the same and it was. I loved it. Thats why I never hit it again although I snorted it fairly often. It's not something I'd buy though, it's not worth it.

I'm talking about the brown powder and the China white, not black tar. I've never done or seen black tar and don't want to. It's full of crap. It's cut to hell and no telling what all is in it and what bacteria. The brown is ok but the white is best because it's mostly Fentanyl. Fentanyl is a prescriptian opiate and without a doubt the most euphoric. Its' more euphoric than heroin. Thats why China white heroin is the best you can get, it's part heroin and mostly fentanyl. I've done that too. It's around as well as the brown powder now. Heroin is making a comeback and this next generation of people don't know anything about it and end up dead on it, more than my generation did back in the day. There is never a way to make shooting dope safe. However, you are less likely to OD on heroin if you snort a small amount than you are if you smoke or shoot it. Snorting it is safer than smoking it which is safer than shooting it. It's legal in the UK as a prescription pain med for I believe end stage cancer and other very serious illnesses. I believe it's diacetylmorphone but I could be wrong. It's something like that though. They give it in hospital only there I believe. Or thats how it used to be.

UK heroin is different than US heroin in that to shoot UK heroin you have to add citric acid when you cook it. In the US you just have to cook it. You don't even have to do that, if you are in a hurry you can just dissolve it in the spoon. Cooking it does burn off a tiny, tiny amount of your drug but it also kills some bacteria and increases bioavailability in the shot. When my friend, who is about ten years younger than me started on heroin and finally told me about it I was sitting in the bathroom with her one day talking to her on her lunch hour while she was shooting up and I was putting my makeup on and I noticed she didn't cook it. I told her to cook it from now on and why. She did after that. That also meant her shot was stronger and she had to spend less money on it cause she did less dope per shot.

Eventually she got to where a 20 wouldn't even get her high it only kept her from being sick. She never had enough money to get good and high and she was always on the brink of being sick or in the early stages of it a few days a week. She went through being sick more than once and I've gone out and got her a monkey killer when she couldn't even get out of bed because she wouldn't go to the damn hospital like I wanted her to. Eventually the bad parts of it outweighed the good parts of it and she went to the methadone clinic. She never wants to get back on it and I'm proud of her. She can also never do it again once or twice recreationally like I can do because it would trigger her addiction and she would be right back on it. It's like cigarettes. When you quit you cannot ever even have one. There are a very few people who can smoke cigarettes only occasionally without starting to smoke just like there are a very few people who can do heroin occasionally and not get on it. I happen to be the latter and wish I was also the former. Now that she's off it I will probably never do it again cause I'll never really be around it.

But, I've done heroin and done it a lot so if you want to know anything about heroin, I'll answer your questions.

I wanted to address this too. Regarding heroin paranoia. It can happen. People usually think they are overdosing. With newbies, especially shooting up, there will always be that one way green newbie who on his first or second shot when he's getting good and high and starting to nod will sit up and scream "OH MY GOD I'M OVERDOSING CALL 911!" and won't believe everybody else when they tell him "you idiot you are not overdosing you have never seen nobody OD on smack or you wouldn't say that you silly ass Motherf***er" and ruin everybody's buzz and good time. These people should not do heroin. Well, nobody should do heroin, but out of people who might do ok on it, these people are not on that list. In fact usually people won't get high with them or score for them anymore. Being newbies they don't score themselves they throw in on something. They also can't hit themselves so there is no chance of them trying it on their own and dying. They wouldn't anyway because they are (rightfully) scared. Still, even though I think it's a bad thing to do I kinda look down my nose at them. I shouldn't but I do. Most experienced users even ex users do.

When you OD you usually don't know you are about to. You feel good, then a little too good for maybe a minute then BAM you are gone. With downers when you get to feeling too good you actually can't sit up and yell to call 911 or do anything except maybe mumble. Thats with shooting dope. With taking pills it's different. With snorting it's a little different but much faster acting. You have a few minutes grace between "I think I did too much" and passing out. It's totally different with speed and coke, I'm talking heroin and other downers here.

When somebody does OD on heroin and it's one shot with just a little too much, you actually do not have to take them to the hospital. You SHOULD yes, and I urge everyone to, but you don't HAVE TO. ODing on a little too much usually causes death by respiratory failure. This means you pass out and forget to breathe. You do this on your nod. This will pass within about an hour if somebody keeps them walking around and slaps them and keeps them talking and f***s with them so they stay awake. It's a horrible feeling cause you just want to go to sleep but they won't let you and you are pissed as hell and try to fight them but you can't really. When you can actually fight them and push them away and jerk away and walk off and go lay down, the danger is passed. You just have to sit by them and watch their breathing and make sure to shake them and wake them if they stop. THIS IS NOT THE BEST TACTIC but there are MANY MANY people who won't call 911 about drugs.

Also, I know quite a few folks who keep narcan to give to somebody who OD'd. It's sort of like the adrenaline shot scene in pulp fiction but not at all. It's not adrenaline, that just restarts the hard and doesn't reverse the drug. That wouldn't have happened like that, but it was a funny scene. You are more likely to kill somebody with adrenaline than bring them around. Narcan completely reverses the narcotic and if they are an addict it sends them immediately into severe withdrawal. You can't give them a monkey killer or even a suboxone because the narcan will countaract it. It also has to be given again in a few hours because it will wear off and depending on the drug they took they will need to re-up the narcan. Heroin will be out of the system but if the OD'd on a bunch of oxycontin or opana time release pills and swallowed them whole you will need to give it for a good 12 hours or so till it's all gone. This is also not the best thing to do and most people only keep one vial around. Not a good idea. For pill OD's you have more time and when they pass out and breathing gets slow and you can't wke them you call 911. Or if you are a cold hearted self centered SOB you drive them to the hospital and dump them out and tell somebody. But needle OD's happen FAST and you should never shoot up alone unless you know what you are doing. You should never shoot up anyway but this is harm reduction here, not the best of the best advice. But when somebody OD's on smack and you shoot them up with narcan it is not pretty. They can go ballistic and usually will. Thats when you put them in the car and get somebody to sit on them and dump them at the hospital, if you were too stupid to call 911 immediately. You can put them in the yard across the street and call anonymously and say that you found them if you have to. But call the freaking emt's they know more than you. But many, if not most, don't. So thats why you walk them like that until the danger is passed.

There used to be an old wives tale that a cold bath would work but it wont. Also, for some reason folks thought shooting them up with cows milk would work. No. Even back in the day when I was a teenager I knew better than that. Folks didn't listen to me though considering I was a newbie and only in the needle world about two years. Way before AIDS and stuff.

but yes you can get paranoia from too intense a high. You can get that from any high at all if you don't know what you are doing. I saw my best friend who is a VERY experienced user get it when she shot some suboxone after not waiting long enough after shooting smack. She didn't go full on dopesick but she felt weird and like the beginnings of it with a little high. Contrary to popular belief, suboxone is also a recreational drug, like methadone. it gives a weirder high. I've never done it. Don't want to either. I don't see the point. But I told her not to shoot that but she did because she's an idiot (I love her but she's an idiot. I don't hide that fact from her either) and so she came out of the bathroom all "I feel weird OMG I'm hot all over. My skin is burning. Something is wrong. Feel my heart. I'm gonna die" I told her she's not gonna die, her skin is not burning, she's got half a high with a side of dopesick and it's not fun. She went back to work but she went back 30 minutes late after she laid on the couch and made me turn off the tv and sit by her and keep an eye on her. You can't see perspective when you are inside a dope paranoia situation so it's best if you have somebody to just humor you. it can get annoying but trying to ignore the person only makes them worse and louder. I have seen motherf***ers running around the house not even really high getting in everybodys face saying take me to the hospital I'm overdosing on downers. BS. It's not even logical but you can't see it when you are in it. I've felt it but controlled myself. I would ask a friend if I looked ok and told them keep an eye on me I didn't feel right and they would. That is more likely to get you serious consideration that some half assed theatrics and hysteria.

So yes, the paranoia is real and usually with newbies. Almost everybody is scared when they feel the intensity of the high of their first shot. Not so much with snorting. Not really at all with snorting unless a half a nod scares you. But usually people don't shoot up heroin for the first time alone and without other junkies around and the other junkies know what you are going through and they reassure you. If you have decent friends there it's a pleasant experience. Hell, it's a great experience but not the best. I'm not saying it's something people should try because it's definately not. If I had my choice it wouldn't exist but it does, and people use it.

I know a friend of the kids who has just started using it. Snorting only though thank god. He won't ever shoot up because he's an opiate addict. He's in his mid 20s and I'm the only "adult" he will talk to about his addiction and what he does. His parents are aware of what he does and the extent but can't stop him. He's functional and works and is a contributing member of society and has a social life and everything and has been an opiate addict for about three years. I give him sane advice and he knows I'd rather he NOT DO ANYTHING but he's going to so I make sure he's safe as he can possibly be with it. He's very smart and understands chemistry and pharmacokenetics so he researches as well. He does extensive research as do I about anything he puts in his body whether from the doctor or a dealer. That is a good thing. And he's just started with heroin. I've told him everything I know about it and he does follow the rule of "You can always do more, you can never do less" so he does a little and waits 30 mins and then does a little more till he gets to where he wants to be. It's not as dramatic a high but it's a safer high. Hopefully he will go back to treatment one day. He wants to and is getting close to doing that. He's about tired of it. That's good. But I think heroin will hold him for a while. I also think he will bang it before it's over with. When that happens I will do everything I can to get him to the clinic and on methadone. He has insurance and can get suboxone and has been on it for other opiate addictions but I'll do everything in my power to stop him when that inevitable happens. He does heroic doses as it is because he's got a huge tolerance. He will die if he hits it up and he knows it so maybe he won't, but I know him and he will want that train just one time. Yeah, lol. It's NEVER just one time after you feel it, and he's an addict so that'll be that.

So, that was my post about the paranoia part. He's even had it. He's called me on the phone paranoid once or twice about stuff. He knew logically if he was ODing he couldnt be talking to me but I talked to him till he chilled. I told him to tell his mother he had a bad stomach bug and to check on him and he did and she did so he felt better. I wish he would be truthful with her but she would freak out too much to be much help. She knows but not the specifics.

So there is heroin paranoia, it's just not common like weed paranoia or speed paranoia. It's not "part of it" or part of the high it's part of the user though, especially when new.

Sorry to go on and on but I wanted to correct some misconceptions and I felt like I was the only one here who could. I don't know everything about it, and hardly any from a technical or medical standpoint, only from the junkie standpoint and many times that's a pretty decent amount of common sense working knowledge. I'm also not trying to glorify it, I'm just telling the truth about it. Anybody who says it isn't great is lying but anybody who says it's the absolute best there is to everybody or that it's immediately addictive with the first shot is also lying.

Don't do drugs ya'll. But if you do, then do them safely. And quit soon.

As I said, it depends on the amount you do and the way you do it. Shooting it is a very intense high and that can scare some. Also the first few times you throw up. That is not fun. Many people do that with lortabs and vicodin as well. However, nobody I know who has done heroin says it's crappy, and I know a ton of people who have done it, as have I. It's not my favorite by a long shot though. But it's not horrible like you say it is either. Anybody can have a bad experience and do too much and get too sick or be in too deep a nod and hate it. Lots of people dislike the nod and never do it again. But I've never met anybody who does drugs and is used to intensity saying they hate heroin. I don't even dislike the high, it's just not my favorite and I'm far from romanticising it. It's not anything I'd seek out though but it's not something I'd throw rocks at if I was gonna get high.

I loathe how weed makes me feel and I know a few people who are like me about it, but we are the minority. Just because some of us feel that way doesn't mean that most people who smoke green really like it. I've done meth a time or five too and never cared for it. I tried it more than once because I wanted to give it a fair chance. Never cared for it. Too edgy and just too crazy feeling. I had been told it would be like coke but it was an upper, that's where the similarity stopped. I wouldn't do it now if you put it out in front of me, just like I wouldn't smoke weed if you handed it to me. I could hold somebody's meth or weed stash for days and never be tempted to dip into it, I dislike both that much. Of course I'd never dip into anybody's stash I was holding but I wouldn't be tempted at all.

Heroin is not a terrible high and something that makes everybody feel like crap and all the hype is a lie. Sure it gets overhyped. Sure everybody in movies and on tv does a shot and then is completely incoherant for hours and that is very far from how it actually is. Real users laugh at the innacuracies of heroin use in the media but they aren't going to show how it really is because they are afraid they will encourage people to use it. It's not heaven but it's not hell either, until you get addicted. Which if you cannot chip, and most people cannot chip, you will get addicted. I've only known a handful of people to be able to do it recreationally and have access to it and not get on it. I'm one of those, believe it or not, and I have an addictive personality so I don't know why I didn't but I didn't.

You are talking from second hand information, I'm talking from first hand experience many years ago and recently. And for more than just trying it a time or two as well. And I'm telling you what people I got high with would say about it too.

People who have used it hate it now because of the addiction, not because of some crappy high. Of course they hate the addiction. They still love the old feeling which they try not to think about, all day every day. Hell even I love the old feeling and I wasn't addicted so I can imagine how it calls to them.

Heroin is s**t. It's a death sentence for most, or at least a long sentence of time addicted and losing a ton of stuff that is important to you. It's something that can bring you hell on earth and usually does. It's the road that you best not ever go down unless you are prepared to lose everything and still not be happy and it not be worth it. It's one you shouldn't even put your foot on unless you are absolutely sure you are strong enough to resist it. I wasn't sure when I put my foot on it, I was on the needle with several things, so whats one more plus it was a great high. But as it turned out, I was one of the few. I got lucky. Most do not.

It's all that I said above but it's not a crappy high. It can be for some people but for most it's not. For most it's pretty decent, although it's not the best opiate high out there for real. But to get some of the better ones you have to dig deep and know more people than folks who sell pills and maybe a smack dealer. Most aren't going to get that until they get way deep into the drug game. BTDT. Heroin ain't the best but it's nothing to turn your nose up at either. ALthough anybody with any sense should turn their nose up at it and walk right back over there to the lightweight section and buy some Lortabs and stay happy with that. Leave the heroin to the hardhitters because they will either be dead or in prison before long, most of them. You don't wanna go there and if you can't keep up then it's your ass on the line. Not a chance to take.

Heroin is schedule 1 in the US. It's prescribed legally for major pain in other countries. Like morphine it doesn't kill the pain per se, it just makes you not care. A morphine high is the closest I've had medically to a heroin high. The heroin high was more euhporic though, but not as euhporic as a fentanyl high. It's more intense than a demerol high though.

I believe for a while in the UK they would give registered addicts legal doses of heroin for maintenance. Not enough to get them high but enough to keep them from being sick. Then they switched to methadone. I don't know this for a fact, I've only read it. It could be methadone they are talking about. Methadone will get you high too. In high doses it makes you sleep but if you break the pill in half or in quarters and take a small amount it's similar to a slightly euhporic lortab.

Honestly you don't willingly become addicted. You become addicted from irresponsible chipping. You do it two or three days in a row and when you quit you get a LITTLE sick. You don't know what real dopesick is like and even the LITTLE SICK (I've been there) is unpleasant so you do some to prevent it. You do a little a day to prevent the little sick and get high here and there and before you know it you are physically dependent and you get major sick when you quit so you have to keep on doing it. I would be scared by the little sick and had seen real sick and knew that I needed to cut back. Never more than two days in a row and deal with the little bit of withdrawals from that. It's nothing you can't deal with. But thats how it gets most people. They try to avoid discomfort. It's almost impossible to not get addicted if you aren't willing to deal with a little sickness if you want to party for a couple days. Even a couple days snorting will put you in bed for a day after with flulike symptoms. But deal with it for Gods sakes. Grow up and stop whining about it if you want to do it you pay the piper and think of it like a hangover because it's gone the next day. Best not to do it at all, but if you are gonna do it be willing to suffer a little after a couple days with it because you will. Know that in advance. People do tell you ,but most don't listen.

Physical dependence on needed pain meds is totally different. There is nothing wrong with taking something every day if it enables you to function without pain and the doctor gives it to you. The very nature of opiates means you will become physically dependent on them even if taken as directed. This doesn't mean you will increase the dose on your own or exhibit drug seeking behavior. Most people who are physically addicted will go to their doctor when they stop working. Most also get used to the "high" and don't feel it as much because they aren't increasing the dose and are taking the prescribed amount and not feeling a buzz from it but feeling pain relief. Recreation users increase the dose to get the better buzz. That is the difference. Both become physically addicted but one type is ok because it's something they can taper off and it serves a purpose.

Years ago when I had the panic disorder and agoraphobia for years I couldn't leave home until the dr put me on xanax. I took it every day but less than I was prescribed. It kept the panic attacks away. I took it for two years and never took it to get high and never felt it. When I felt like I could do without taking it every day I tapered off it and kept my last prescription around in case I needed one here or there for a panic attack. It stops one cold. I never took one for the buzz, even after I had stopped taking them every day, and even though it would give me a buzz when I took one for the panic attack. I was physically addicted but not mentally addicted nor drug seeking. That is the difference.

Doctors are so afraid of law enforcement and the DEA now that they have allowed the DEA to actually classify tramadol as a narcotic when it is not a narcotic pharmacologically at all. They classify it as that because idiots think they are getting high off it. It works on opiate receptors but isn't an opiate. It also has a mood lift side effect from seratonin, much like being on an antidepressant for a month. Idiots are selling it and taking it by the handful now to get "high" when they are actually only getting "not depressed and happier". It is the EXACT SAME FEELING you get after being on Welbutrin and Lexapro for a couple months. EXACTLY. So, they classify a nonnarcotic as a narcotic and now it's hard to get a script for this safe and effective pain med. Freaking idiots.

But you don't let yourself get addicted to heroin. It just happens. I used common sense. Most do not. Also most junkies aren't idiots, many are very smart, but they are usually the ones who survive it. Or the ones who survive it have a smart friend to help them out.

Most heroin users do not push it on others. Most will not willingly give it to someone for the first time. Usually you have to talk them into it and catch them on a broke day and offer to spot them a sack. Then they will. Some will do it because they think the person can handle it, which was the case with me. I was already shooting other dope with some friends. Some had done smack before and got some one night. I said let me try that and they did. I did ok and so I because an occasional user. If I had not done ok (read my first post on the people running around freaking out) then they would not have ever given me any more and probably quit doing anything with me.

So most do not try and "sell it". They tell you what they feel about it if asked, but they don't sell it. What I've said about it is true and I'm not trying to "sell it' either, but if I lie about it and somebody does it and finds out first hand that I've lied then anything else I could tell them to keep them safe will be disregarded, forever. So I'd rather tell the truth. It's a pretty great high, not the best though, to me anyway but it is to some, and it's very very dangerous although some pills that people do a lot are more dangerous actually, but it's still not something to play with. And be prepared for mild sickness if you party with it for a few days. It will pass. Don't get a monkey killer, ever. Monkey killers are what addict you by their very nature.