John McCain Wants Trump To Retract Wiretapping Claim

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Kraichgauer
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18 Mar 2017, 2:16 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

I meant America, not you personally. So that's the first correction. Who mentioned Obama?

the US has been doing in the region for decades. Obama just continued with it. What 'Arab spring democracy movements' did he support? No it's not remotely why you supported dictators in the past. You did it if they played ball with resources etc and if that dictator was oppressing the people of the country and stopping them benefits from resources etc that you wanted to benefit from. You still support dictators and brutal regimes.

Obama had supported the Arab Spring in Libya, which unfortunately had had unforeseen results.

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JohnPowell
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20 Mar 2017, 1:38 pm

Of course he did, but it wasn't an 'Arab Spring'. It was a foreign, part proxy intervention by mainly France and the UK as well as the US. Using fake stories about Libyan soldiers raping women as part of the propaganda to support the intervention.

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Kraichgauer
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20 Mar 2017, 1:56 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

But it's undeniable that everything started with a popular uprising in the streets.
And who says Libyan soldiers weren't raping their women? Soldiers everywhere have always behaved badly.

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Jacoby
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20 Mar 2017, 3:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

But it's undeniable that everything started with a popular uprising in the streets.
And who says Libyan soldiers weren't raping their women? Soldiers everywhere have always behaved badly.

The Obama administration was instrumental in causing the civil wars in both Libya and Syria, none of this happens without US meddling.

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20 Mar 2017, 3:22 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

But it's undeniable that everything started with a popular uprising in the streets.
And who says Libyan soldiers weren't raping their women? Soldiers everywhere have always behaved badly.

The Obama administration was instrumental in causing the civil wars in both Libya and Syria, none of this happens without US meddling.

Really... I'm pretty sure civil wars were happening long before the US existed; in true so long before that even apes do it. Didn't it occurred to you that the population of those countries could have, you know, legitimate reason to rise up against their corrupt dictatorial governments; or that Russia may want to keep Syria actual government for political and strategical reasons other that the ISIS, not all that different from the US government wanting to protect some corrupt regime.

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Jacoby
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20 Mar 2017, 3:59 pm

Tollorin wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

But it's undeniable that everything started with a popular uprising in the streets.
And who says Libyan soldiers weren't raping their women? Soldiers everywhere have always behaved badly.

The Obama administration was instrumental in causing the civil wars in both Libya and Syria, none of this happens without US meddling.

You are ignorant of the situation and buying into the Obama administration's narrative about it, Obama was a huge huge liar and people are acting like he's some truthteller now but he's not. There would not of been civil wars in Libya or Syria without US overt and covert support, the NATO intervention into Libya was done at the absolute last moment as Gaddafi was preparing a final assault on Benghazi the 'rebel' stronghold in the country. That no fly zone was more bomb the s**t out of Gaddafi force on the ground, kill Gaddafi and his family, importing weapons/mercenaries, and in the end basically partitioning the country. Obama actually recognized the Islamist government in Tripoli rather than the UN recognized one which is now based in Tobruk, Obama and his allies are very close to the Muslim Brotherhood who have exposed themselves as a terrorists organization.

Kraichgauer
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20 Mar 2017, 5:00 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

But it's undeniable that everything started with a popular uprising in the streets.
And who says Libyan soldiers weren't raping their women? Soldiers everywhere have always behaved badly.

The Obama administration was instrumental in causing the civil wars in both Libya and Syria, none of this happens without US meddling.

And years of dictatorial abuse by Gaddafi had nothing to do with the uprisings in the street?
And as far as you other post is concerned: claims the Obama is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood is as ridiculous as that he faked his birth certificate, and both are the imaginings of fevered, far right nationalist brains.

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Jacoby
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20 Mar 2017, 5:30 pm

As usual you are ignorant, yes Obama allied with the Muslim Brotherhood that is not in contention and they are considered a terrorist organization by many countries and there are bills in congress to designate them as one in this country as well. I would wager to bet the CIA was a part of these coups, Obama let the CIA run wild all over the Middle East and even here domestically.

I'd take Gaddafi's 'dictatorial abuse' over any of the so called democracies in the Africa, Gaddafi actually gave back to his country and continent. Libya had the highest living standards in Africa under his regime, now they've been in state of civil war for years with no end in site with ISIS/other Islamists gaining a foothold in the country that they hadn't before just like in Iraq and just straight up tribalism and gangsters. It's a terrible ungovernable country now, what once was a peaceful prosperous country is now hell on earth. Obama's foreign policy is the cherry on top of his failed presidency, he can't blame Bush for s**t he started.

Last edited by Jacoby on 20 Mar 2017, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnPowell
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20 Mar 2017, 7:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

But it's undeniable that everything started with a popular uprising in the streets.
And who says Libyan soldiers weren't raping their women? Soldiers everywhere have always behaved badly.

Like the ones shown by the BBC that turned out to be a video from India? It's true what Jacoby says. Our rulers don't want people of the region benefiting from their resources. It's embarrassing that you believe these fairy tales about how people just suddenly rise up against their leaders when that is hardly ever the case. Sometimes when it is, the US backs the government to beat down the protesters. So we should invade every country then, because all soldiers are bad?

JohnPowell
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20 Mar 2017, 7:06 pm

And yesterday, Israel bombed the Syrian army again, helping ISIS. Israel have vested interests in Syria. Read "The Greater Israel Project".

Kraichgauer
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20 Mar 2017, 7:46 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Okay, I'm ignorant, whatever.

I never said that the end result of what happened in Libya was a good thing, just that Gaddafi had been largely responsible for causing it.

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JohnPowell
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22 Mar 2017, 4:15 pm

"just that Gaddafi had been largely responsible for causing it."

Not remotely true.

Kraichgauer
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22 Mar 2017, 4:21 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

"just that Gaddafi had been largely responsible for causing it."

Not remotely true.

You don't think living for decades under an emotionally unbalanced, fickle dictator for decades hadn't contributed to the eventual uprising?

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Jacoby
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22 Mar 2017, 4:28 pm

Gaddafi supported terrorism at one time but he cared about his people and helped build a lot of infrastructure all across Africa, he's not a black and white figure. I think everyone in Libya besides the Islamists probably misses him, their country is now an ungovernable failed state in sectarian civil war with little possibility of the situation improving any time soon. It was a terrible terrible mistake by NATO to intervene, more people have died 20x over if we didn't stick our nose in it. Not only that but it was a total betrayal by the West to Gaddafi who had cooperated with our War on Terror and had given up his WMDs, lesson to other pariahs is to NEVER disarm.

also confirmed surveillance of Trump and associates by Intelligence Chair David Nunes, says FBI is not cooperating with the congressional investigation but the NSA is. I think the time to fire Comey as FBI director is coming soon.

JohnPowell
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22 Mar 2017, 4:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

"just that Gaddafi had been largely responsible for causing it."

Not remotely true.

You don't think living for decades under an emotionally unbalanced, fickle dictator for decades hadn't contributed to the eventual uprising?

Nothing to do with it. It's completely irrelevant. He was removed and the country destroyed because it's what the West wanted to happen. Have you ever thought about looking elsewhere for news and information? Cause you're being lied to.

JohnPowell
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22 Mar 2017, 4:37 pm

Yep, straight as he did that regarding disarmament, the game was up. I'm afraid the only way to stop the West's destruction is if Iran had nukes.

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