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Trump's 1st Trip Abroad as President

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androbot01
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22 May 2017, 2:47 pm

Slate: Trump Says He “Never Mentioned the Word ‘Israel’” to the Russians, Which No One Says He Did

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Just ahead of a meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today, President Trump told a group of reporters several times that he “never mentioned the word, or the name, Israel,” in his Oval Office conversation with the Russian foreign minister and ambassador earlier this month. He then leaned over to Netanyahu, who is presumably fully aware of what they’re talking about, and told him, “they were all saying I did.”


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Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 3:41 pm

^^This is actually the low point of his presidency thus far. By saying he didn't tell the Russians Israel was where the information came from he confirmed the story. U.S. intelligence agencies will struggle to get information from their allies from here on out because he just burned an ally's asset. Whoever that agent was is either extracted or dead, and either way of no use at this point. It's grade school social skills: if you tell a friend a secret and they go around blabbing it to anyone in earshot you don't tell that person secrets anymore and you question if that person's friendly at all.



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22 May 2017, 4:23 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
^^This is actually the low point of his presidency thus far. By saying he didn't tell the Russians Israel was where the information came from he confirmed the story. U.S. intelligence agencies will struggle to get information from their allies from here on out because he just burned an ally's asset. Whoever that agent was is either extracted or dead, and either way of no use at this point. It's grade school social skills: if you tell a friend a secret and they go around blabbing it to anyone in earshot you don't tell that person secrets anymore and you question if that person's friendly at all.


American intelligence services are probably thinking twice about sharing any classified information with this blabber mouth.


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Jacoby
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22 May 2017, 4:55 pm

American 'intelligence' services were already the laughing stock of the planet after the whole WMD debacle, now they're meddling politically and have been the victim/source of massive leaks.



Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 5:06 pm

Jacoby wrote:
American 'intelligence' services were already the laughing stock of the planet after the whole WMD debacle, now they're meddling politically and have been the victim/source of massive leaks.

Sure they've had mistakes, all institutions do, and other intelligence institutions understand that because they themselves have made mistakes as well, thus they continue to work as allies hopefully fixing those mistakes. That said, burning an ally's source is a cardinal sin, a sign of distrust in a job where trust is everything-- our intelligence agencies didn't burn that trust, our president did.

edit: Put the shoe on the other foot to understand our ally's perspective. Say Netanyahu went out bragging about intelligence he received from his American allies and that burned (possibly killed) an American intelligence agent, would you want our government to continue sharing intelligence with someone so cavalier and reckless?



Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 5:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
^^This is actually the low point of his presidency thus far. By saying he didn't tell the Russians Israel was where the information came from he confirmed the story. U.S. intelligence agencies will struggle to get information from their allies from here on out because he just burned an ally's asset. Whoever that agent was is either extracted or dead, and either way of no use at this point. It's grade school social skills: if you tell a friend a secret and they go around blabbing it to anyone in earshot you don't tell that person secrets anymore and you question if that person's friendly at all.


American intelligence services are probably thinking twice about sharing any classified information with this blabber mouth.

By law they're required to hand over any classified information he requests, failure to do so is treason.



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22 May 2017, 7:10 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
^^This is actually the low point of his presidency thus far. By saying he didn't tell the Russians Israel was where the information came from he confirmed the story. U.S. intelligence agencies will struggle to get information from their allies from here on out because he just burned an ally's asset. Whoever that agent was is either extracted or dead, and either way of no use at this point. It's grade school social skills: if you tell a friend a secret and they go around blabbing it to anyone in earshot you don't tell that person secrets anymore and you question if that person's friendly at all.


American intelligence services are probably thinking twice about sharing any classified information with this blabber mouth.

By law they're required to hand over any classified information he requests, failure to do so is treason.


Still, I'm sure they wouldn't be reporting such intelligence with any great zest, and will probably try to impress on his orangeness that he MUST not share this with the Russians.


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Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 7:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Still, I'm sure they wouldn't be reporting such intelligence with any great zest, and will probably try to impress on his orangeness that he MUST not share this with the Russians.

Yes, he's very erratic and I'm sure they're concerned but as long as he's president they're still obligated to turn over the intelligence, and being professionals I expect they will. But I mean come on it's Trump, the daily intelligence briefing was 10 pages when Obama left office, Trump's asked them to cut it down to a single page with bullets and graphics which they've done. Hell he's already said he knows more than the intelligence agencies: a clear sign he's not even paying attention to what they're telling him.

So IF Trump is complicit in handing over reams of intelligence to the Russians they're getting intelligence from the class clown with ADD. Point being, they're getting better stuff out of their actual agents on the ground than the one that has all the access, because the one with all the access is completely unreliable due to a whole host of mental disorders. I'd call him the American Nero, but Nero doesn't need to be dragged down anymore than history has already done.



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22 May 2017, 7:30 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Still, I'm sure they wouldn't be reporting such intelligence with any great zest, and will probably try to impress on his orangeness that he MUST not share this with the Russians.

Yes, he's very erratic and I'm sure they're concerned but as long as he's president they're still obligated to turn over the intelligence, and being professionals I expect they will. But I mean come on it's Trump, the daily intelligence briefing was 10 pages when Obama left office, Trump's asked them to cut it down to a single page with bullets and graphics which they've done. Hell he's already said he knows more than the intelligence agencies: a clear sign he's not even paying attention to what they're telling him.

So IF Trump is complicit in handing over reams of intelligence to the Russians they're getting intelligence from the class clown with ADD. Point being, they're getting better stuff out of their actual agents on the ground than the one that has all the access, because the one with all the access is completely unreliable due to a whole host of mental disorders. I'd call him the American Nero, but Nero doesn't need to be dragged down anymore than history has already done.


Just imagine if Trump goes from Nero to Caligula? :pale:


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Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 7:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Just imagine if Trump goes from Nero to Caligula? :pale:

Look at the bright side, Caligula had one of the shorter reigns in the Roman Empire, and those people whacked leaders like pinatas at a Mexican birthday party.



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22 May 2017, 8:58 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Just imagine if Trump goes from Nero to Caligula? :pale:

Look at the bright side, Caligula had one of the shorter reigns in the Roman Empire, and those people whacked leaders like pinatas at a Mexican birthday party.

Didn't Nero burn down Rome? and Trump talked about "draining the swamp"



Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 9:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Just imagine if Trump goes from Nero to Caligula? :pale:

Look at the bright side, Caligula had one of the shorter reigns in the Roman Empire, and those people whacked leaders like pinatas at a Mexican birthday party.

Didn't Nero burn down Rome? and Trump talked about "draining the swamp"

That's what Nero's opponents claimed since Nero wanted to build a structure of some sort in the area that was torched. But chances of him actually giving the order are slim, and the fire was most likely accidental. Nero just wasn't that concerned when it happened hence the statement: 'Nero fiddled while Rome burned'.



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22 May 2017, 9:06 pm

I'm not understanding this latest upset. Why is "they" supposed to be limited to a coupe of news stories? There is a huge amount of sensationalism, innuendo and rumor mongering going on all over the place 24/7.

The whole idea from the beginning is that Trump supposedly blabbed secret info to the Russians that will supposedly have disastrous consequences and put whoever imagined in danger.

Btw, some scholars say Nero wasn't nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.



Last edited by EzraS on 22 May 2017, 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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22 May 2017, 9:13 pm

I guess we better start practicing saying President Pence



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22 May 2017, 9:34 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I guess we better start practicing saying President Pence


Hasn't that been said every single day since Trump was the president elect? People saying"Trump is going to be impeached" daily. Either that or Trump never wanted to be president. The idea presented by the OP is that Trump is actually fleeing the US. Trump is in collusion with the Russians and on and on.

It's just so hard for me to take most anything said against Trump seriously because of all the desperate hope for his presidency to end that I've seen displayed from the beginning. Which like I said, began November 8th.

I just don't get the hysteria or that certain people can't see the hysteria for what it is or that they themselves are being hysterical.

This of course makes me look like a right winger Trump supporter. But it's really that I see the majority of stuff brought up against him as simply being nonsense. None of it ever turns out to be anything close to something impeachable and usually is in the form of sensationalism, suspicion, conjecture, innuendo and rumors rather than anything factual.

I see it all as quite bizarre and absurd. Hopefully history will accurately record it for what it is.



Last edited by EzraS on 22 May 2017, 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 9:36 pm

EzraS wrote:
I'm not understanding this latest upset. Why is "they" supposed to be limited to a coupe of news stories? There is a huge amount of sensationalism, innuendo and rumor mongering going on all over the place 24/7.

The whole idea from the beginning is that Trump supposedly blabbed secret info to the Russians that will supposedly have disastrous consequences and put whoever imagined in danger.

Btw, some scholars say Nero wasn't nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.


The problem is that for our intelligence agencies to operate in other nations and cooperate with other nations we need a certain level of trust. If the president is burning assets of other countries we will lose that trust and the intelligence they have to offer us because no one wants to spend years training an asset, millions of dollars getting an operation running, only to have all that investment flushed down the toilet by an ally in a casual manner. Our intelligence network is a global network, if parts of Europe, Asia, and South America start going dark on us because we're too risky to share with we're blind to any possible attacks coming from those regions. If you think our intelligence is bad now (it's actually not comparatively), wait until it's operating with a blindfold.