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More "white nationalist" demonstrations planned

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Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2017, 4:00 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
This from today's Wall Street Journal:

A source with knowledge of the Monument Fund, Inc., one of the plaintiffs which obtained a temporary injunction against removing monuments in Charlottesville, tells this column:


"Nobody from our group attended the protests or counter-protests. We all stayed away. As everybody should have done. As President Sullivan of U Va urged people to do. Just stay home. But City Councillors and a coalition of leftist groups invited their followers to show up for counter protests. And show up they did, angry and spoiling for a fight.
If City Council had just said: let the Nazis shout idiot slogans at empty air, ignore them, stay home -- no violence would have happened. The police are unfairly criticized for not stopping the fighting. How could they? These two groups wanted to fight. They found ways to get at each other. These are public streets, they could not all be locked down and cleared of belligerents.
This was a tragic event, it will scar the city. It will take a long time for the anger to subside."


Yeah ignore them till they come smashing in your windows and doors...


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16 Aug 2017, 4:01 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...Conversely, I never notice the people who bring up D-Byrd mentioning any contrition from Jesse Helms or Dtrom Thurmond, just for two --- Hm, they switched to R...Ooh, ooh, Mr. Kotter!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! I know, the liberal media and George Soros covered up their contrition :mrgreen: !






Shrapnel"]^^^

I am finding a different portrait of Lee. After the Civil War he called slavery evil and conducted himself like a gentleman, and worked to unite the country. Nothing about that “Unite the Right” march shared Lee’s values.


On numerous occasions, Lee called slavery an evil institution. For example, on December 28, 1856, he told President Franklin Pierce:
“There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former.”


If the left cannot accept Lee’s contrition after the Civil War than how can they forgive Sen. Robert Byrd (D) who was a member of the KKK at one time?

Answer: Because Byrd’s name is followed by an upper case D.
[/quote]

Confederate General, Longstreet, went on to head up the racially mixed New Orleans police force, and used it to crush those Confederate army veterans who had tried to violently disrupt and overthrow the Reconstruction government. Longstreet I have genuine respect for, because his contrition was shown in his actions, and not just in his words.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2017, 4:08 pm

We should seek to use the tactics of Martin Luther King, rather than the tactics, say, of the Black Panthers.....



techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2017, 4:31 pm

Gad Saad and Jordan Peterson speech now cancelled at Ryerson:


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16 Aug 2017, 4:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We should seek to use the tactics of Martin Luther King, rather than the tactics, say, of the Black Panthers.....


A few less known aspects of both MLK and Gandhi. They were both a moderate in the their respective conflicts. When the conflicts between the more extreme movements and the colonial powers became to intense, the government would work the less extreme section of the struggle in order to appease the masses.

MLK - Malcom X/Black panthers
Gandhi - Bhagat Singh

The caveat here is that the extreme movement/people have to actually represent what the majority wants.

This is what will happen with the Black Block/Antifacist, but will not happen with the Nazis (unless there are some fundamental changes in our society).

We saw this over the last few years with the rise of the teabaggers, but we see many people suffering from buyers remorse now that they know how it could effect them.


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16 Aug 2017, 4:41 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
But they hardly represent all the counter protesters of white supremacist rallies/marches and I still don't see them calling for genocide.


When Trump said something similar about people who support the statues staying up he got near universal derision. While that is true, the demos and the counterdemos were organized by and a large amount if not a large majority of people participating in them came to brawl.

Sweetleaf wrote:
I just don't get where in the f**k people get the idea that the majority of liberals would support something as ridiculous as 'enforced thought'. I never thought people complaining about nazi rallies would be described as wanting extremely severe limits on free speech that would make even the slightest inappropriate thought a criminal offense.

I can not speak for other WP posters but I specifically referred to the "illiberal left" and policing speech and enforcing language because that is what they are about.


And I can't say I necessarily blame people for wanting to brawl with piece of sh*t nazis, not saying it is for sure the right way to handle it or whatever but I certainly get it. I mean if someone came spewing some white supremacist crap to me I'd want to hit them to...if they were doing it in my town I would want to tell them they aren't welcome. Also I guess there are some censorship nuts on the left, but I really doubt they are the element of the left that is most prominent. And the way people b*tch so much about political correctness and any limit whatsoever on free speech its like they think there is a conspiracy to just erase freedom of speech from constitution. I suppose we should be able to call for genocide, an all white world, scream bomb or fire on a plane or movie theater, verbally harass other peoples children, threaten to kill and rape each other ect.


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16 Aug 2017, 4:44 pm

KagamineLen wrote:


To everybody who spoke out against the counterprotesters - the statements made by the Nazis in the video above are exactly what you are speaking in favor of. Think about that for a minute.


Come on. Speaking out against counterprotesters does not equate to being in favor of Nazis.

I did see the video earlier today but decided not to post it because I felt it might violate WP guidelines. I hope this video is allowed to stay even though it is very triggering.

OFF TOPIC: I see the hijacking of narrative demonstrated in the reaction to the events. It is pretty much mostly about denouncing the obvious racist agenda of the Nazi's. What the leaders of the riot said tells me it was largely if not mostly about anti-Semitism. Charlottesville was not only chosen because of the statue but because its mayor is Jewish. This is not mentioned I believe because the anti-Semitism narrative is inconvenient to the elements of the left that support the Boycott and Divestment of Israel campaign.


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16 Aug 2017, 4:45 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
If the left cannot accept Lee’s contrition after the Civil War than how can they forgive Sen. Robert Byrd (D) who was a member of the KKK at one time?

Answer: Because Byrd’s name is followed by an upper case D.

Ugh. This is the worst false equivalency ever, yet you people keep brainlessly repeating it.

1.) Almost nobody that is part of "the left" these days considers Byrd a progressive just because he was a Democrat.

2.) Byrd disavowed his earlier racism. (Lee never did, and we can only speculate whether his views would or would not have change if he had lived through the civil rights era).



techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2017, 4:46 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Come on. Speaking out against counterprotesters does not equate to being in favor of Nazis.

It does when Antifa's the only thing standing between you and a gas chamber or oven! :lmao:


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KagamineLen
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16 Aug 2017, 4:51 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Come on. Speaking out against counterprotesters does not equate to being in favor of Nazis.

It does when Antifa's the only thing standing between you and a gas chamber or oven! :lmao:


You must think you are so clever right now. Have a goddamn cookie. I insist.



ASPartOfMe
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16 Aug 2017, 5:01 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
This from today's Wall Street Journal:

A source with knowledge of the Monument Fund, Inc., one of the plaintiffs which obtained a temporary injunction against removing monuments in Charlottesville, tells this column:


"Nobody from our group attended the protests or counter-protests. We all stayed away. As everybody should have done. As President Sullivan of U Va urged people to do. Just stay home. But City Councillors and a coalition of leftist groups invited their followers to show up for counter protests. And show up they did, angry and spoiling for a fight.
If City Council had just said: let the Nazis shout idiot slogans at empty air, ignore them, stay home -- no violence would have happened. The police are unfairly criticized for not stopping the fighting. How could they? These two groups wanted to fight. They found ways to get at each other. These are public streets, they could not all be locked down and cleared of belligerents.
This was a tragic event, it will scar the city. It will take a long time for the anger to subside."


The Holocaust survivors who were 1 of 6 residents of Skokie, Illinois and all other residents of Skokie ignored the Nazi's when they came marching into town way back when. The march broke up in 10 minutes. I suppose in this day and age of flash mobs and zero sum game politics it is nieve to expect people to ignore anything.

I am not a pacifist, there are times when a violence is the only way to deal with a threat. In this case it was a few hundred thugs. Rightly or wrongly we are debating the merits of the counterprotesters. The Nazis are getting days and days of free publicity. If they marched unopposed it would have been a one day story.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 16 Aug 2017, 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2017, 5:01 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Come on. Speaking out against counterprotesters does not equate to being in favor of Nazis.

It does when Antifa's the only thing standing between you and a gas chamber or oven! :lmao:


You must think you are so clever right now. Have a goddamn cookie. I insist.


I don't even know wtf anymore, people are insane...I am starting to be mildly concerned that I will wake up to some insane post apocalyptic type world one morning.


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rick sanchez
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16 Aug 2017, 5:03 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Come on. Speaking out against counterprotesters does not equate to being in favor of Nazis.

It does when Antifa's the only thing standing between you and a gas chamber or oven! :lmao:


You must think you are so clever right now. Have a goddamn cookie. I insist.


I don't even know wtf anymore, people are insane...I am starting to be mildly concerned that I will wake up to some insane post apocalyptic type world one morning.


We can dare to dream :)


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marshall
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16 Aug 2017, 5:08 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Yet only on one side did the violence result in killing a person. Of course if you have a group made up largely of white supremacists clashing with counter protestors it will be impossible to keep it 100% peaceful...but there is quite the difference between shouting, screaming chants, brawling and fist fights than plowing a vehicle into people, and carrying weapons, which if I am not mistaking some of the white supremacists who attended did.

It sounds like you're saying you haven't watched many of the videos - either at Charlottesville of Antifa, or much of anywhere else. Saying you dislike one groups politics more than the other is one thing, saying that one group is more violent or corrosive to the rule of law than the other is a different matter entirely.

Even if I don't agree with their violence, or even their ideology as a whole, the anger of the left at least seems genuine. They truly believe they are fighting for justice. The alt-right, on the other hand, act like a bunch of spoiled s**t sociopathic faux-hyper-masculine frat-boy scum. They don't seem to actually care about anything but deliberate provocation. They say the "the white race" has superior intellect, yet they are acting like monkeys with their "alpha male" BS, calling people "cucks", "fa***ts", etc... basically schoolyard-style name-calling, macho-posturing, and bullying... the same as what one would imagine witnessing in "the hood".



KagamineLen
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16 Aug 2017, 5:14 pm

marshall wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Yet only on one side did the violence result in killing a person. Of course if you have a group made up largely of white supremacists clashing with counter protestors it will be impossible to keep it 100% peaceful...but there is quite the difference between shouting, screaming chants, brawling and fist fights than plowing a vehicle into people, and carrying weapons, which if I am not mistaking some of the white supremacists who attended did.

It sounds like you're saying you haven't watched many of the videos - either at Charlottesville of Antifa, or much of anywhere else. Saying you dislike one groups politics more than the other is one thing, saying that one group is more violent or corrosive to the rule of law than the other is a different matter entirely.

Even if I don't agree with their violence, or even their ideology as a whole, the anger of the left at least seems genuine. They truly believe they are fighting for justice. The alt-right, on the other hand, act like a bunch of spoiled s**t sociopathic faux-hyper-masculine frat-boy scum. They don't seem to actually care about anything but deliberate provocation. They say the "the white race" has superior intellect, yet they are acting like monkeys with their "alpha male" BS, calling people "cucks", "fa***ts", etc... basically schoolyard-style name-calling, macho-posturing, and bullying... the same as what one would imagine witnessing in "the hood".


Yep. That is exactly the kind of attitude people are encouraging when they are speaking out against the counter protesters. I bet the Nazis probably don't even want aspies defending their right to talk about how much they want to gas anybody they find racially impure. Yet here are a handful of aspies defending speech that is designed to undermine democracy and promote ethnic cleansing.



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16 Aug 2017, 5:16 pm

It must be stated that many Republicans, even of a "tea-party" mentality, denounced the Alt-Righters by name, but didn't equally denounce the counter-protestors.