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George Bush goes full on anti Trump

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kraftiekortie
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13 Feb 2018, 9:48 pm

The solution is to have more paths to legality. More paths for people to become US citizens.

Sort of like the Ellis Island days.



EzraS
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13 Feb 2018, 10:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
This is a fact:

It is almost impossible to gain legal status in the US (if you're not from the US) unless you marry a citizen, or someone sponsors you.

If people were able to enter the US legally, and shoot for citizenship legally, like they used to be able to do in the Ellis Island Days (up to 1924), they would do so.

I don't find "illegal aliens" necessarily morally debased. Most of the time, all they want to do is to provide for their families.

Now....if it was 1905, and people would try to bypass Ellis Island, I would think very differently.


Migrant workers, don't need to achieve citizenship, they just need a green card.

As for it being nearly impossible to get legal citizenship in the US, "Lawful immigrants account for three-quarters of the foreign-born population in the U.S. – 33.8 million people out of 44.7 million in 2015".
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... mmigrants/

So that's 33.8 legal vs 10.9 illegal. Out of that 10.9, my guess there are far more who won't, than those who can't. And of those who can't, I bet there's a good percentage who can't because they have a criminal background.



EzraS
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13 Feb 2018, 10:27 pm

auntblabby wrote:
^^^some people are hopeless cold-blooded legalists. no dealing with them.


*Once again, posts are being selectively removed without notice*

To repeat, calling someone who suffers from flat effect due to autism cold blooded is is just plan wrong. Add to that you calling me throughly obnoxious, which hurt my feelings. That's just being cruel.



auntblabby
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13 Feb 2018, 10:42 pm

EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
^^^some people are hopeless cold-blooded legalists. no dealing with them.


*Once again, posts are being selectively removed without notice*

To repeat, calling someone who suffers from flat effect due to autism cold blooded is is just plan wrong. Add to that you calling me throughly obnoxious, which hurt my feelings. That's just being cruel.

I did not mention you. I did not refer to you in any way. what part of "some" refers directly to you? your BEHAVIOR is obnoxious as of late, you think you don't hurt anybody's feelings with palpably plain malice aforethought? you think referring to me as obtuse is innocent? that is hypocritical behavior, you know. :shameonyou:



DarthMetaKnight
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13 Feb 2018, 10:54 pm

Raptor wrote:
Syd wrote:
Image


Are you saying immigration was illegal or controlled under Indian laws of the time?
You can't break a non-existing law.


You're completely missing the point.

The right-wingers claim that immigrants are invading America and destroying American values. That's why immigration is restricted in the first place.

When Europeans stole the Americas from the indigenous people, that was an actual invasion.

Image
^^^
This is what an actual invasion looks like.


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EzraS
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13 Feb 2018, 11:01 pm

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
^^^some people are hopeless cold-blooded legalists. no dealing with them.


*Once again, posts are being selectively removed without notice*

To repeat, calling someone who suffers from flat effect due to autism cold blooded is is just plan wrong. Add to that you calling me throughly obnoxious, which hurt my feelings. That's just being cruel.

I did not mention you. I did not refer to you in any way. what part of "some" refers directly to you?


You were obviously referring to me:

Image

auntblabby wrote:
your BEHAVIOR is obnoxious as of late, you think you don't hurt anybody's feelings with palpably plain malice aforethought? you think referring to me as obtuse is innocent? that is hypocritical behavior, you know. :shameonyou:


Like someone else said, wow just wow.



Kraichgauer
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13 Feb 2018, 11:07 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Committing the crime of wanting a better life for themselves and their children.
Remember, helping runaway slaves had once been considered a crime. But who in the end was morally right?


If people want a better life for themselves and their children by entering another country, then they should do so legally which is morally correct.


That can take forever, and even then they can be rejected as most of them are dirt poor. If I was in that situation, I'd be tempted to provide my family with a brighter future. Sure, technically, it is a crime, but it's hardly a violent crime, or a crime of theft.


So what's the solution, eliminate immigration laws?


No, but as under past PResidencies, law enforcement can show some discretion in enforcing said laws.


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DarthMetaKnight
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13 Feb 2018, 11:14 pm

Isn't it funny how the people who make fun of the hypersensitivity on the left often turn out to be hypersensitive?

If you want people to be nice to you, you generally need to be nice to them.

You know what they say about men who live by the sword.


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auntblabby
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13 Feb 2018, 11:15 pm

EzraS wrote:
You were obviously referring to me:

you are obviously bearing false witness. :shameonyou:



EzraS
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13 Feb 2018, 11:36 pm

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
You were obviously referring to me:

you are obviously bearing false witness. :shameonyou:


No I honestly think you were referring to me.



kraftiekortie
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13 Feb 2018, 11:49 pm

If you don’t have a family member who is a citizen, or if you don’t marry a citizen, it’s very difficult to become a lawful immigrant.

I should have pointed out the “family members who are citizens.” My mistake.



auntblabby
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13 Feb 2018, 11:52 pm

obviously I can't influence your thoughts, I can't convince you to consider A or B or Z. you are smart enough to take care of yourself. you are also smart enough to know that sometimes, one reaches the limits of "reading between the lines" and that "sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar." (speaking figuratively here and not using Freud's original literal meaning)



EzraS
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14 Feb 2018, 12:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Committing the crime of wanting a better life for themselves and their children.
Remember, helping runaway slaves had once been considered a crime. But who in the end was morally right?


If people want a better life for themselves and their children by entering another country, then they should do so legally which is morally correct.


That can take forever, and even then they can be rejected as most of them are dirt poor. If I was in that situation, I'd be tempted to provide my family with a brighter future. Sure, technically, it is a crime, but it's hardly a violent crime, or a crime of theft.


So what's the solution, eliminate immigration laws?


No, but as under past PResidencies, law enforcement can show some discretion in enforcing said laws.


Perhaps other presidents have been too lax which has created a situation where the illegal population has grown to 10.9-12 million. Since 75% of the immigrant population is legal, it seems likely that becoming a legal resident is far from impossible. And getting a green card to pick produce or whatever is also probably far from impossible.

I'm being told these illegals are incredibly diligent workers, so why can't they be diligent in getting proper authorization? My guess the actually diligent ones do just that.

Most other countries have much tighter immigration laws, including Mexico, and the US is basically catching up to them.

Really it seems the opposition stems from the claim that it's purely racist motivated.



cyberdad
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14 Feb 2018, 1:03 am

naturalplastic wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I reckon the damned thing will eventually be built in whatever form, at obscene cost to working amuuuricans, and it will be a monument to amuuurican stoooopidity.


Nonsense!

Trump will do it under budget, and ahead of schedule.....by hiring Mexicans, and Salvadorans, to build it! :D


Trump has no choice. The budget for his wall (a popular election platform for his followers) has already blown well out of proportion so he must hire thousands of low paid workers from sh*thole countries to build his wall providing American taxpayer money to foreigners (got to love the irony)

Any wonder George Bush thinks he's an idiot



EzraS
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14 Feb 2018, 1:15 am

auntblabby wrote:
obviously I can't influence your thoughts, I can't convince you to consider A or B or Z. you are smart enough to take care of yourself. you are also smart enough to know that sometimes, one reaches the limits of "reading between the lines" and that "sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar." (speaking figuratively here and not using Freud's original literal meaning)


Just stop making me out to be a bad person.



Kraichgauer
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14 Feb 2018, 1:32 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Committing the crime of wanting a better life for themselves and their children.
Remember, helping runaway slaves had once been considered a crime. But who in the end was morally right?


If people want a better life for themselves and their children by entering another country, then they should do so legally which is morally correct.


That can take forever, and even then they can be rejected as most of them are dirt poor. If I was in that situation, I'd be tempted to provide my family with a brighter future. Sure, technically, it is a crime, but it's hardly a violent crime, or a crime of theft.


So what's the solution, eliminate immigration laws?


No, but as under past PResidencies, law enforcement can show some discretion in enforcing said laws.


Perhaps other presidents have been too lax which has created a situation where the illegal population has grown to 10.9-12 million. Since 75% of the immigrant population is legal, it seems likely that becoming a legal resident is far from impossible. And getting a green card to pick produce or whatever is also probably far from impossible.

I'm being told these illegals are incredibly diligent workers, so why can't they be diligent in getting proper authorization? My guess the actually diligent ones do just that.

Most other countries have much tighter immigration laws, including Mexico, and the US is basically catching up to them.

Really it seems the opposition stems from the claim that it's purely racist motivated.


There is a racial element, though, and it precedes Trump and his talk of bringing in only Norwegians. Brown people were never the target immigrant group for the people who run immigration in America.


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