09 Feb 2018, 11:34 am
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
09 Feb 2018, 2:41 pm
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I've never had more respect for GWB. <3
According to what they WILL NOT? There's a lot of Americans who live in just as much poverty as those in countries south of the border, people with families who live in tarp tents and cardboard houses.
And Trump insulted his brother.
That's a very good point.
Says the fact that crops rot in the fields when Mexicans are prevented from being able to come harvest them.
Article: http://fortune.com/2017/08/08/immigrati ... ing-crops/
It's very well known that migrant workers with strong work ethics will do hard labour for long hours in terrible conditions for lower levels of pay than locals of nearly any place. The very same holds true right here where I live. There are some Mexican migrant farm workers here, too, but most are from India, often the elderly, women, and the newly arrived. Most locals here aren't willing to pick berry crops etc - and there are plenty of locals in dire poverty, living on welfare or homeless.
The same holds true for most places on the planet. People simply refuse to do undesirable jobs for a variety of reasons. If locals would do the jobs, there'd be no such thing as unemployment and far fewer, if not zero, migrant farm workers. But they won't do the jobs and crops go to waste, so those willing to do hard work for low pay in order to provide for their families step up to the plate so that you can dine from yours.
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It's pretty much a fact that many Americans WILL NOT do the "dirty jobs"--like picking cotton. Agricultural jobs are very difficult jobs. And very unpleasant.
George W Bush, "Mr. 43," is a dyed-in-the-wool conservative. He's been this critical of Trump before.
George W Bush, "Mr. 43," is a dyed-in-the-wool conservative. He's been this critical of Trump before.
According to what they WILL NOT? There's a lot of Americans who live in just as much poverty as those in countries south of the border, people with families who live in tarp tents and cardboard houses.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
And Trump insulted his brother.
That's a very good point.
Says the fact that crops rot in the fields when Mexicans are prevented from being able to come harvest them.
Article: http://fortune.com/2017/08/08/immigrati ... ing-crops/
It's very well known that migrant workers with strong work ethics will do hard labour for long hours in terrible conditions for lower levels of pay than locals of nearly any place. The very same holds true right here where I live. There are some Mexican migrant farm workers here, too, but most are from India, often the elderly, women, and the newly arrived. Most locals here aren't willing to pick berry crops etc - and there are plenty of locals in dire poverty, living on welfare or homeless.
The same holds true for most places on the planet. People simply refuse to do undesirable jobs for a variety of reasons. If locals would do the jobs, there'd be no such thing as unemployment and far fewer, if not zero, migrant farm workers. But they won't do the jobs and crops go to waste, so those willing to do hard work for low pay in order to provide for their families step up to the plate so that you can dine from yours.
So Canada allows thousands of illegal immigrants to work in fields picking produce and such? How many illegal immigrants would you say are allowed to live in Canada?
Alos there's an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the US. How many out of that 12 million are picking crops? 100%? 50% 20%?
I have no idea how many are illegal and how many are legal just being paid illegally low wages/piece rates that amount to less than minimum wage. We certainly do have illegal immigrants here, though, like every desirable country where people either sneak in (from the South.. USA) or simply come under false pretenses and overstay their work/travel/student visa. (probably a lot more common)
No idea how many are picking crops, working construction, doing janitorial work.. what does it matter? The point is that migrant workers who need to work or starve/have their families starve are willing to do hard dirty work for low pay that Americans refuse to do. If it weren't true, the article I posted wouldn't have happened etc. No job would go unfilled and so on. But North Americans have had it pretty damned good.. and I do wonder if a part of it is rooted in the USA's history of slavery.. making certain jobs in the economy "beneath," people and only fit for a slave or illegal so that's why they'd rather be on welfare or on the streets than pick crops or clean toilets. Then there are those (both in Canada & the USA) who aren't disabled enough to be on disability, but aren't well enough to work - they're not necessarily lazy; there's something wrong with them. But no matter which way you slice it, Americans won't do the work no matter how much you wish they had the work ethic to do it, and poor migrant Mexicans/others will. Period.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
09 Feb 2018, 5:36 pm
09 Feb 2018, 5:49 pm
09 Feb 2018, 6:01 pm
09 Feb 2018, 7:55 pm
09 Feb 2018, 9:12 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2018, 12:01 am
10 Feb 2018, 1:09 am
10 Feb 2018, 2:46 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2018, 5:09 am
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
10 Feb 2018, 5:26 am
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I have no idea how many are illegal and how many are legal just being paid illegally low wages/piece rates that amount to less than minimum wage. We certainly do have illegal immigrants here, though, like every desirable country where people either sneak in (from the South.. USA) or simply come under false pretenses and overstay their work/travel/student visa. (probably a lot more common)
No idea how many are picking crops, working construction, doing janitorial work.. what does it matter? The point is that migrant workers who need to work or starve/have their families starve are willing to do hard dirty work for low pay that Americans refuse to do. If it weren't true, the article I posted wouldn't have happened etc. No job would go unfilled and so on. But North Americans have had it pretty damned good.. and I do wonder if a part of it is rooted in the USA's history of slavery.. making certain jobs in the economy "beneath," people and only fit for a slave or illegal so that's why they'd rather be on welfare or on the streets than pick crops or clean toilets. Then there are those (both in Canada & the USA) who aren't disabled enough to be on disability, but aren't well enough to work - they're not necessarily lazy; there's something wrong with them. But no matter which way you slice it, Americans won't do the work no matter how much you wish they had the work ethic to do it, and poor migrant Mexicans/others will. Period.
No idea how many are picking crops, working construction, doing janitorial work.. what does it matter? The point is that migrant workers who need to work or starve/have their families starve are willing to do hard dirty work for low pay that Americans refuse to do. If it weren't true, the article I posted wouldn't have happened etc. No job would go unfilled and so on. But North Americans have had it pretty damned good.. and I do wonder if a part of it is rooted in the USA's history of slavery.. making certain jobs in the economy "beneath," people and only fit for a slave or illegal so that's why they'd rather be on welfare or on the streets than pick crops or clean toilets. Then there are those (both in Canada & the USA) who aren't disabled enough to be on disability, but aren't well enough to work - they're not necessarily lazy; there's something wrong with them. But no matter which way you slice it, Americans won't do the work no matter how much you wish they had the work ethic to do it, and poor migrant Mexicans/others will. Period.
Well the answer is that the Canadian government doesn't allow anyone to be in the country illegally.
I don't know where you get the idea that American or Canadian citizens don't work as janitors or window washers or busboys or burger flippers or many other menial minimum wage jobs, but they do.
Also, just how long do harvest times last? What about November through June? If illegal migrant crop pickers have to pick crops or their family dies, then wouldn't all of them die throughout the late autumn, winter and spring when there are no crops to pick.
Of course no one including Trump is saying foreign workers are not allowed. They are allowed if they have a green card. And my guess is that those who do have green cards, resent illegals.
Maybe they don't officially, but they also know they're here and rarely do immigration raids. Illegal immigrants are an integral part of many economies, so officials turn a blind eye to the fact that they're here or in California picking crops.
I never said there aren't any Canadians or Americans working as janitors etc.
I used a few menial job titles as examples of undesirable jobs that a lot of illegals/migrants/new immigrants etc are willing to do far more readily than the typical North American.They're called migrant workers for a reason. If they're harvesting crops, they'll move with the crops that need to be harvested, and when it's Winter chances are they're back with their families, or perhaps laying low somewhere doing odd jobs. Also, there is no end to the growing season for greenhouses for produce & indoor marijuana grows - both legal and illegal. Apparently there are migrant weed crop clippers, too.
I doubt many resent them. The illegals are largely doing jobs others won't get off their asses to do or think they're too good to do etc. Hence crops rotting in the fields.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.10 Feb 2018, 6:30 am
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I have no idea how many are illegal and how many are legal just being paid illegally low wages/piece rates that amount to less than minimum wage. We certainly do have illegal immigrants here, though, like every desirable country where people either sneak in (from the South.. USA) or simply come under false pretenses and overstay their work/travel/student visa. (probably a lot more common)
No idea how many are picking crops, working construction, doing janitorial work.. what does it matter? The point is that migrant workers who need to work or starve/have their families starve are willing to do hard dirty work for low pay that Americans refuse to do. If it weren't true, the article I posted wouldn't have happened etc. No job would go unfilled and so on. But North Americans have had it pretty damned good.. and I do wonder if a part of it is rooted in the USA's history of slavery.. making certain jobs in the economy "beneath," people and only fit for a slave or illegal so that's why they'd rather be on welfare or on the streets than pick crops or clean toilets. Then there are those (both in Canada & the USA) who aren't disabled enough to be on disability, but aren't well enough to work - they're not necessarily lazy; there's something wrong with them. But no matter which way you slice it, Americans won't do the work no matter how much you wish they had the work ethic to do it, and poor migrant Mexicans/others will. Period.
No idea how many are picking crops, working construction, doing janitorial work.. what does it matter? The point is that migrant workers who need to work or starve/have their families starve are willing to do hard dirty work for low pay that Americans refuse to do. If it weren't true, the article I posted wouldn't have happened etc. No job would go unfilled and so on. But North Americans have had it pretty damned good.. and I do wonder if a part of it is rooted in the USA's history of slavery.. making certain jobs in the economy "beneath," people and only fit for a slave or illegal so that's why they'd rather be on welfare or on the streets than pick crops or clean toilets. Then there are those (both in Canada & the USA) who aren't disabled enough to be on disability, but aren't well enough to work - they're not necessarily lazy; there's something wrong with them. But no matter which way you slice it, Americans won't do the work no matter how much you wish they had the work ethic to do it, and poor migrant Mexicans/others will. Period.
Well the answer is that the Canadian government doesn't allow anyone to be in the country illegally.
I don't know where you get the idea that American or Canadian citizens don't work as janitors or window washers or busboys or burger flippers or many other menial minimum wage jobs, but they do.
Also, just how long do harvest times last? What about November through June? If illegal migrant crop pickers have to pick crops or their family dies, then wouldn't all of them die throughout the late autumn, winter and spring when there are no crops to pick.
Of course no one including Trump is saying foreign workers are not allowed. They are allowed if they have a green card. And my guess is that those who do have green cards, resent illegals.
goldfish21 wrote:
Maybe they don't officially, but they also know they're here and rarely do immigration raids. Illegal immigrants are an integral part of many economies, so officials turn a blind eye to the fact that they're here or in California picking crops.
The estimate is that Canada has 100,000 illegal immigrants. Which is a lot more than I expected, but still a drop in the bucket compared to 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the US. I wonder how blase Canada would be if our 12 million all migrated up there.
goldfish21 wrote:
I never said there aren't any Canadians or Americans working as janitors etc. I used a few menial job titles as examples of undesirable jobs that a lot of illegals/migrants/new immigrants etc are willing to do far more readily than the typical North American.
I used a few menial job titles as examples of undesirable jobs that a lot of illegals/migrants/new immigrants etc are willing to do far more readily than the typical North American.The standing claim is that illegal immigrants only do work no one else would want or do. If they are working jobs that citizens do want and work, that throws that claim right out the window.
goldfish21 wrote:
They're called migrant workers for a reason. If they're harvesting crops, they'll move with the crops that need to be harvested, and when it's Winter chances are they're back with their families, or perhaps laying low somewhere doing odd jobs. Also, there is no end to the growing season for greenhouses for produce & indoor marijuana grows - both legal and illegal. Apparently there are migrant weed crop clippers, too.
So we're going from vast cotton fields in the blazing sun, to green houses. How many illegal workers does a greenhouse need? As far as pot goes, I find it hard to believe with as much money as pot sells for, they can only afford illegal labor. Also if they can do odd jobs in Mexico or wherever, they don't need to work here illegally.
goldfish21 wrote:
I doubt many resent them. The illegals are largely doing jobs others won't get off their asses to do or think they're too good to do etc. Hence crops rotting in the fields.
But what's the bottom line here, eliminate immigration laws?
Last edited by EzraS on 10 Feb 2018, 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
10 Feb 2018, 6:33 am
10 Feb 2018, 6:39 am
10 Feb 2018, 6:48 am
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