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Another murderer who happens to be an Aspie

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thadius
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21 Dec 2005, 1:08 pm

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Box 5 Characteristic features of Asperger syndrome that predispose to criminal offending

An innate lack of concern for the outcome can result in, for example, an assault that is disproportionately intense and damaging. Individuals often lack insight and deny responsibility, blaming someone else; this may be part of an inability to see their inappropriate behaviour as others see it.

An innate lack of awareness of the outcome that allows individuals to embark on actions with unforeseen consequences; for example, fire-setting may result in a building’s destruction, and assault in death.

Impulsivity, sometimes violent, can be a component of comorbid ADHD or of anxiety turning into panic.

Social naïvety and the misinterpretation of relationships can leave the individual open to exploitation as a stooge. Their limited emotional knowledge can lead to a childish approach to adult situations and relationships, resulting, for example, in the mistaking of social attraction or friendship for love.

Misinterpreting rules, particularly social ones, individuals find themselves unwittingly embroiled in offences such as date rape.

Difficulty in judging the age of others can lead the person into illegal relationships and acts such as sexual advances to somebody under age.

Overriding obsessions can lead to offences such as stalking or compulsive theft. Admonition can increase anxiety and consequently a ruminative thinking of the unthinkable that increases the likelihood of action.

In formal interviews, misjudging relationships and consequences can permit an incautious frankness and the disclosure of private fantasies which, although no more lurid than any adolescent’s, are best not revealed.

Lacking motivation to change, individuals may remain stuck in a risky pattern of behaviour



What do you all think of this? I found it here: http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/5/341



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21 Dec 2005, 10:35 pm

thadius wrote:
What do you all think of this? I found it here: http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/5/341


I find that incredibly disturbing... 8O But at least they didn't list "Lack of Empathy"...Which is just false.



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22 Dec 2005, 2:40 am

Most of it is true though, GA. I've stolen a couple of things due to my obsessions, and while I'm not a stalker, I do like to follow some people so long as they're heading the direction I am. The two things in that article I'd think to be distinctly untrue, the "Misinterpreting rules, particularly social ones, individuals find themselves unwittingly embroiled in offences such as date rape." one. And the "Difficulty in judging the age of others can lead the person into illegal relationships and acts such as sexual advances to somebody under age." one. They are SO untrue, imho.



eyeenteepee
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22 Dec 2005, 4:15 am

I think there's going to be varying degrees of validity to that, depending on the individual. My own Dad would fit most of those criteria very closely. He's not been diagnosed officially, but it's a pretty fair bet.

On my part, most of those do not apply, or certainly not in the specific way described there.

:(

No wonder a friend of mine who has a Master's degree in Psychology and has studied Asperger's on a counseling course was rather terse in her reply when I revealed my dx to her! :roll:


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22 Dec 2005, 8:12 am

danlo wrote:
Most of it is true though, GA. I've stolen a couple of things due to my obsessions, and while I'm not a stalker, I do like to follow some people so long as they're heading the direction I am. The two things in that article I'd think to be distinctly untrue, the "Misinterpreting rules, particularly social ones, individuals find themselves unwittingly embroiled in offences such as date rape." one. And the "Difficulty in judging the age of others can lead the person into illegal relationships and acts such as sexual advances to somebody under age." one. They are SO untrue, imho.


Oh I know it's all true to some extent..It's still disturbing. Though I'd say yes on the Misinterpreting of social rules...Though I don't have sex, so date-rape is something that'll never happen on my watch...
And I do sometimes have a little difficulty in judging age, though I tend to be around +/- 5 years. And again, I don't do sex, so not a problem in such respects...

I have stolen, like from school and the like..But mostly I would only do so if I could guarntee to myself I would not get caught.

eyeenteepee wrote:
No wonder a friend of mine who has a Master's degree in Psychology and has studied Asperger's on a counseling course was rather terse in her reply when I revealed my dx to her! :roll:


I don't understand, what do you mean?

GA



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22 Dec 2005, 8:58 am

I know I SNAP occasionally (I am an aspie who reprobates medication for myself) , especially and mainly in self-defense. I know I am small and pretty scrawny, but on different assorted occasions, I felt the strength of ten (10) Grinches, and I have lifted and thrown things that could not normally be lifted nor thrown. Like super adrenaline rush, you knowy?



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22 Dec 2005, 9:02 am

It is known that Autistics can possess near-super human strength at times of stress or anxiety...

GA



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22 Dec 2005, 9:03 am

I guess we've established given the right circumstances an Aspie could kill another person...quite easily...

As disturbing as that is... 8O



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22 Dec 2005, 5:04 pm

Having had time to sit and think on this, I kinda feel that you could characterise pretty much any kind of extreme personality traits in a very negative, disturbing light. After all, not all criminals are Aspies, not by a long shot.

Aren't we just the easy targets for these kind of cheap shots from the psychologists?

For instance:

Quote:
An innate lack of concern for the outcome can result in, for example, an assault that is disproportionately intense and damaging.


Yes, that sounds quite scary. However, it is unquestionable that serious assaults that end in critical injuries or death are perpetuated by NTs.
Therefore, you could write this statement about non-Aspies:

Me wrote:
Despite knowing the realistic outcome of a brutal and sustained attack, the individual continues assaulting the victim, possibly to the point of death.


You see, when you put it like that, don't NTs sound very dangerous and scary? They should be locked up or drugged for their own good! (Sarcasm!)

Of course, I'm stretching a point, most people (NT or otherwise) would not go so far. And yet, there are those individuals that do.

Take this statement too:

Quote:
Social naïvety and the misinterpretation of relationships can leave the individual open to exploitation as a stooge.


Isn't that suggesting that the poor innocent Aspie has got themselves caught up in trouble, started by...yep NTs. Who is the real criminal then?

Isn't it about time psychology stopped making generalisations about Asperger's? We suffer enough as it is, without being tarred with this very dirty brush. The simple truth is, there are people with no mental health issues and no pervasive development disorders who commit crimes.
Why should we be made out to be so dangerous? It is us, after all, that tend to be the victims of bullying and (as we get older) street fights, corporate abuse etc. All at the hands of others.


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22 Dec 2005, 5:09 pm

GalileoAce wrote:
eyeenteepee wrote:
No wonder a friend of mine who has a Master's degree in Psychology and has studied Asperger's on a counseling course was rather terse in her reply when I revealed my dx to her! :roll:


I don't understand, what do you mean?

GA


Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Most people I have told about AS are usually quite interested, curious even. Possibly even pleased for me that I have made this major discovery about myself.

This person made a few comments along the lines of "yes I have studied that, I know about it". She made a few comments about being able to deal with it better and that was it. I got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that she had heard nothing but bad things. This surprised, because of what she does, I expected her to want to get a first hand account to relate the theory too.

Maybe I'm just reading into things that aren't there? Ah, I'll shut myself up! :wink:


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23 Dec 2005, 9:13 am

eyeenteepee wrote:
GalileoAce wrote:
eyeenteepee wrote:
No wonder a friend of mine who has a Master's degree in Psychology and has studied Asperger's on a counseling course was rather terse in her reply when I revealed my dx to her! :roll:


I don't understand, what do you mean?

GA


Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Most people I have told about AS are usually quite interested, curious even. Possibly even pleased for me that I have made this major discovery about myself.

This person made a few comments along the lines of "yes I have studied that, I know about it". She made a few comments about being able to deal with it better and that was it. I got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that she had heard nothing but bad things. This surprised, because of what she does, I expected her to want to get a first hand account to relate the theory too.

Maybe I'm just reading into things that aren't there? Ah, I'll shut myself up! :wink:


It is quite possible that you misread things... But, I've found, for myself, that my radar on such things is pretty accruate... Your's could be too, I dunno...

Have you asked her? Specifically? That would clear things up quickest...Though I wouldn't be surprised if they way she was taught, perhaps not delibratley so, was to dissociate people with mental illnesses from individuality. In other words, they'd be taught to treat M.I. patients as patients, as opposed to people... That may not be the intent of the course she's studying..But I wouldn't be surprised if it comes off that way...

But then again..I'm only hypothesising, and I could be very wrong indeed.



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23 Dec 2005, 9:06 pm

danlo wrote:
Hmm, I'm not so sure. We do seem to be prone to snapping and going off our rocker. I can recall a couple of occasions when I might have killed someone, had I not been pulled off them, after I've broken down. Reduced to the point where I was on the street choking my brother, chanting that he must die. But I do agree that it doesn't contribute to premeditated or deliberate murder, but it can contribute to killing someone.


I know I as a person don't go around killing people nor do I entend to, jeez...what a f'ing ret*d...



danlo
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23 Dec 2005, 9:28 pm

Are you talking about me Hannah, or that other guy? And, I wasn't saying Autism makes you prone to becoming a deliberate murderer, just that it can cause accidents that you don't mean to happen. That it can contribute to moments of temporary insanity, where control and logical thought goes out the window.



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27 Dec 2005, 10:45 pm

I've been known to lose my temper and go for someone's throat, but I've always let up immediately after any signal of 'surrender,' and that's under severe provocation. (My style of 'fighting,' such as it is, appears to be 'dig your nails into a sensitive area of their body and shake your hands once your nails are at least an inch into the skin. Do not let go unless a better grip presents itself.' Needless to say, I've gotten a fast surrender every time I have lost my temper to the degree necessary to provoke an attack.)

I don't understand why someone would just haul off and kill a younger kid like that, and I can't see how AS would make him do so.



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28 Dec 2005, 10:48 am

SolaCatella wrote:
I've been known to lose my temper and go for someone's throat, but I've always let up immediately after any signal of 'surrender,' and that's under severe provocation. (My style of 'fighting,' such as it is, appears to be 'dig your nails into a sensitive area of their body and shake your hands once your nails are at least an inch into the skin. Do not let go unless a better grip presents itself.' Needless to say, I've gotten a fast surrender every time I have lost my temper to the degree necessary to provoke an attack.)

I don't understand why someone would just haul off and kill a younger kid like that, and I can't see how AS would make him do so.


I'm like you; my tactics are aimed at bringing down my opponent in the fastest possible time, my actions usually produce a surrender quickly, and I desist.

GA



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28 Dec 2005, 3:52 pm

GalileoAce wrote:
SolaCatella wrote:
I've been known to lose my temper and go for someone's throat, but I've always let up immediately after any signal of 'surrender,' and that's under severe provocation. (My style of 'fighting,' such as it is, appears to be 'dig your nails into a sensitive area of their body and shake your hands once your nails are at least an inch into the skin. Do not let go unless a better grip presents itself.' Needless to say, I've gotten a fast surrender every time I have lost my temper to the degree necessary to provoke an attack.)

I don't understand why someone would just haul off and kill a younger kid like that, and I can't see how AS would make him do so.


I'm like you; my tactics are aimed at bringing down my opponent in the fastest possible time, my actions usually produce a surrender quickly, and I desist.

GA

Come to think of it, I'm probably a lot more dangerous if you touch me on my 'forbidden areas,' like my back, if only because I'm prone to accidentally hurting people.

My little sister (who is three years old) is always hugging me from behind or hugging me around the neck from behind, which triggers an immediate 'get it off no matter what!' reaction that I'm usually only partially able to control. Today she did it AGAIN and I accidentally whacked her in the face when I panicked. (What's worse is that my mother doesn't believe that I can't control it. She apparantly thinks I DECIDE to panic and throw my little sister across the room, so I got into trouble over it. Again.)