Verbal Communications Differences and Difficulties Sticky

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Labpet, It looks like your Special Silent thread up and running!
Almost a whole page now!

Merle

what a good idea, a forum i'd actually feel included in

Thank you, & I look forward to your contributions DivaD, and others as well.

Just to mention: My rigorous (sleep-depriving ) academic program at the Univeristy requires intensive studying with Chem (my speciality!) and Biochem - I'm in the Neurosciences, which is within this department. Anyway....one professor, whom I very much like, has noted the 'difference' in one infamous biochemist who was instrumental in defining DNA and the morphology - one of the 1st and now dead. Sorry I do not now too many details about this scientist, but I'll share what I do know. He worked closely with another scientist and they are Watson/Crick - modeled DNA and biochemists use their contribution to this day - major impact. Anyway, one of this pair (unsure which.....) was virtually non-verbal. The safe assumption, based upon evidence, is that this biochemist was a (partly) mute high-functioning autistic. I do not too many details, but I thought I would share.

For certain, many of those who are NV, or partly so, can and do contribute in profound ways.

This I do not know - just curious......(Maybe someone here knows?): The magicians Seigfreid (sp?) & Roy; the one who virtually does not speak - is he.....? Again, just speculative. His partner was mauled by a tiger!! ! Yikes.

I haven't heard from MrMark so I am unsure. Then, any moderator may assist - thank you sinsboldly. BTW: I didn't know you were a moderator until just recently; a serendipitous discovery. Post-congrats on your new status.

I hope others can join in - anyone, really. Like Age1600, others.

Maybe this could be moved to the Haven (?), or another appropriate place for others to access, yes?

Maybe one of the moderators would know best since I do not.

Where does this belong? Hmmm.....

So there is a new silent thread in addition to the one in the Women's Discussion? If so, where?

Not especially. A thread did occur in the Women's Discussion, Problematic Speech, but it isn't a New Theme Topic and that isn't the intent. Just coincidentally, I had considered this thread, for those who are NVs, and Problemetic Speech does show some real interest in this special need with insights - you can check it out. Perhaps this thread could be a new 'official' Forum for those who are NV.......standing by. Moderator's permission, I think. Maybe to move into the Forum?

I would be glad to move this to The Haven, if that is your wish, Labpet. . . .


Merle

Is anybody who had unexplained trouble with talking so that they can be understood by others or expressing themselves by language or with varying verbal skills welcome to participate, too?

That would be great - thank you. I think that would be the appropriate place, yes?

Sora: When I speak I often feel 'verbally cornered,' where I just cannot! So confining. I wonder if there is another way you can express youself, besides just speaking? Many Aspies/Auties have written, repeatedly, in paraphrase: 'I have a hard time getting my across.' Or, 'No one listens to me.' Pervasive problem. I am partially mute but there is a continuum here, from totally NV to those who are just misunderstand, in various ways, much like you mentioned. I hope you can keep posting! Plus, we can use your advice.

We'll look in the Haven, thanks to sinsboldly. I hope others find us too - there's at least a few NV on WP.

sinsboldy - re: your keys. Look in the left pocket of your green raincoat. You're welcome.

<Lab Pet is experimenting with her (lack) of psychic skills>

I would really like this to be true. A few months ago I read the biography of Rosalind Franklin, and though plenty was said about Watson and Crick the impression was not given that either one might have been autistic. It is all too easy for an individual to have their autism dismissed simply as shyness plus eccentricity, especially if the person in question is an academic type (although I do not suppose there is anything simple about being shy and eccentric).

It is advisable to use caution when speculating on whether a long deceased person had autism, but the one exception to this has to be Henry Cavendish. I have never before encountered such an obvious case of Aspergers Syndrome. I know not much of his work, but what has been written of his mannerisms and personality is quite amazing; here was someone acting just like us but two and a half centuries ago.

Henry Cavendish:

The grandson of both the Duke of Devonshire and the Duke of Kent, the aristocratic and eccentric scientist Henry Cavendish was born in 1731.

After studying at Cambridge and unwillingly undertaking a Grand Tour of Europe as a young man, he spent the rest of his life engaged in experiments and scientific investigations.

He was a notoriously reclusive and shy man. Sir Joseph Banks, the President of the Royal Society at the time, said of him that, 'He probably uttered fewer words in the course of his life than any man who ever lived to four score years'. Cavendish ordered his dinner by leaving notes on a table for servants to find and, because he was particularly alarmed by women, his female staff were told they would be instantly dismissed if he were ever to catch sight of them.

Although wealthy he rarely spent money on himself and wore the same crumpled and old-fashioned suit and three-cornered hat for decades.

Despite his eccentricity, he was also a gifted experimental scientist who was the first to investigate the properties of hydrogen, which he called 'inflammable air', and to prove that water was the result of the combination of two gases. He also spent long hours working on experiments with electricity. In one of these he measured the strength of a current by the simple but rather dangerous method of giving himself an electric shock and then estimating the level of pain he had experienced.

He died in 1810 at the villa on Clapham Common which he had built to house his laboratory and his library. Much of his work he left unpublished at his death. His papers were studied and edited by James Clerk Maxwell in the 1870s. Maxwell found that the silent and solitary Cavendish had anticipated a number of later theories but had not felt the need to tell anyone else about them.

No formal portrait of him exists because he refused to sit for one. The only likeness to survive is a quick sketch of him made, without his knowledge, at a Royal Society dinner.
[Taken from the BBC World Service website]

Thanks for the post about Cavendish - he's very notable. Also - I do refrain from making any diagnotic assessment since this is presumptous and just...wrong. I did mention Watson/Crick because, and only because, my neuroscientist professor (autism researcher too) had suggested this NV was likely HFA. I don't mean to imply, defininitely, this is true - just speculative. Mostly I mentioned in this Forum since it's about those who are NV or partially so (some other clues as well, but I truly don't know the details). Like you, I'm really leery about haphazard diagnostics! Sort of a pet peeve, I guess. If a forensic Dx is determined there are real methodologies to warrant this 'label,' it's not arbitrary. Sometimes there's simply insufficient evidence.

In any case, regardless of Dx, the Watson/Crick 'team' transcended biochemistry; that's what matters.

This is entirely true, and it makes for an interesting point: if one of the pair was an autistic mute, how did this affect their working relationship?

It would be ridiculous to say that autistic mutes can not form meaningful relationships with others, clearly this is not the case. Yet there is an issue here, not least when reflecting on my own experiences. I performed very poorly in science at school, in particular due to the amount of co-operation and team work involved. Perhaps it is a different scenario at research level, where individuals are given greater freedom to work on specialised projects and choose their own colleagues. But, after performing so badly in early years, how to get to that stage?

Conversely, is it easier for a non verbal person to work in a pair? Any speech can be delegated to the talker, almost to the point of advocacy, and the mute can research, type, draw, and present in a non verbal manner.

LabPet, you are a scientist: do you generally find it better to work in a pair or alone?

A compelling question. Science is a lone pursuit in that for a hypothesis to come into fruition it occurs just in that one's mind; like a zenith perspective. I am basically a loner and very motivated.

But...I have had amazing academic mentor! And some great co-workers too. For me, a colleague rapport is smooth and mutually beneficial. I can, and have, become really close to some whom I work with. I don't mean for this to sound strange, but I think there are co-workers/advisor whom I do love, in a platonic and non-familial way. If it works, it just clicks!

Mostly science in non-verbal; that is, in the lab, developing, researching, data analysis, etc. But there is the aspect of presentation. I love creating PowerPoint presentations and writing but I obviously need another to speak. My 'partner' can do this. For whatever reason(s) I am often attracted to those who are outgoing. I am not a passive individual, which can be a misnomer about those who are mostly NV. I am certainly introspective and shy though. I guess the partner-part is they speak but I contribute in every way too. Mutually beneficial relationship.

For the Watson/Crick pair: Each was a strong chemist in their own right. But surely there is the element of a mutual symbiosis too. One must speak and this is one way science can be communicated. I don't know much about the personal dynamics of Watson/Crick, just their DNA morphology, and related.

As to the day-to-day difficulties of not speaking......well, I'm on my own. Sigh.

Yes, I think we should move this to...the Haven. Do you think so? Then more can post. I'll let a moderator move this since I am unsure how.


Friday I had lunch w/ my academic advisor and a University Director - very nice. I did speak, some. I also brought my Dana to write but this isn't so compatible in a restaurant (what if the waiter should spill hot tea on the Dana?).....just wondering: How do others (NVs) order?

I am virtually always alone but Friday was a special occasion. I just don't go out to eat except for the local coffee shop, which isn't really like a restaurant (I can study there as well). But Friday I pointed to '# 22' on the menu and my advisor ordered aloud for me - in Thai even. He doesn't speak Thai but he speak 'Menu Thai'

At the coffee shop I'll sometimes just write, on paper, my drink order - quite simple. Or if I feel ok I'll just say the order but I am shy.

TA DAAAA!! !
glad to move it for you, LabPet!

Merle

just watched your video, it ROCKED!! !

Last edited by sinsboldly on 10 Aug 2008, 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.