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League_Girl
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28 Aug 2010, 4:39 pm

I don't because bad things can happen to anyone even if they never did anything to deserve it. If bad things do happen to someone and they happened to deserve it, it was just a darn coincidence unless people made it happen to that person and it was all planned.

When I do use the word, I am using irony there. If someone were to speed and they got in a wreck, would you call it karma? I might just for the fun of it because it wouldn't have happened if the person weren't speeding.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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28 Aug 2010, 4:44 pm

I believe in cause and effect. I think Karma is a misunderstanding of this.


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CockneyRebel
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28 Aug 2010, 5:46 pm

I believe in Karma.


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UglyDuckling
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28 Aug 2010, 6:16 pm

Quote:
I believe in cause and effect. I think Karma is a misunderstanding of this.


I second that.


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28 Aug 2010, 6:31 pm

Karma is something the upper echelon of hindu priesthood invented to keep the Indian peasantry in check.

Ffs they think cows are sacred. Can you take them serious? Only hippies do.



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28 Aug 2010, 6:33 pm

I am a firm believer in karma, I feel I was very bad in my last life



happymusic
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28 Aug 2010, 6:52 pm

Karma is a very complicated concept in a true philosophical/religious sense. In that sense it seems very clear to me that it's real. It is self evident that what appear to be two actions are just part of one action. For example, birth is just one half of an action that involves death, etc. In the sense that it is used in a mundane, casual way, it's nonsensical and not fully thought out. It depends on the idea of a cycle of birth and death and constant becoming. The way people use it casually doesn't depend on that so the concept appears faulty.

So, I do believe that my problems are of my own making.



gramirez
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28 Aug 2010, 7:55 pm

Yep, I believe in Karma. That's why I help people whenever I can.


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OneStepBeyond
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28 Aug 2010, 8:25 pm

i dooo. i dont believe that people who have bad things happen to them necessarily did something bad (at least i hope not or i musta been a right sod). but i do believe that people who do do bad things will get what they deserve at some point. its what keeps me sane lol



rojasje87
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28 Aug 2010, 8:32 pm

Good things happen bad people, but they also happen to good people. Also, good and bad things happen to both good and bad people. In order to answer such a question another must first be asked: Do you believe in free will? The reason why this question needs to be asked first is because one of the implications discerned from the original question "Do you believe in Karma" is that if you do believe in karma, then how would it be possible to at the same time believe in free will? The answer is that it is not possible if you think logically. The reason is that karma negates free will. If karma can be understood as the enforcement of the consequences of our actions which is controlled by an enforcer (god) from outside the realm of our existence, then this would mean our own actions or causes don't lead to our own effects or consequences, and free will goes right out the door. Furthermore, cause and effect leaves no room for karma; our actions (causes) are actually effects caused by previous effects, and from which those effects will cause subsequent effects. The only way to alter the pattern of cause and effect would be to alter the conscience of a decision making being. What this would imply is that the notion of karma is actually a paradox because the only way to alter or influence a conscience would be to physically alter the brain, and the only ways to achieve this is through drugs which will ultimately changes our thoughts and alters perspective on reality and make us delusional because we can't see reality for what it truly is. But, we can also change our thoughts by making a conscious decision to do so, which would actually be employing freewill. Therefore, karma is actually a delusion created by our own thoughts through our own free will which alters our conscience because we can't see reality for what it actually is; a reality which obeys the laws of physics more specifically cause and effect; karma is actually the effect of its own cause; a paradox. Basically, karma is only true because we decide to make it true or to accept it, but we can also decide to not believe in it, and in that case it actually doesn't exist because it has no effect on our conscience. Ultimately, to believe in free will is to not believe in karma, and to believe in karma is to not leave any room for our own free will. In a way, karma is similar to the notion that we will be punished or rewarded in heaven our hell after we perish depending on our decisions now hear on earth, but karma instead either gives us little piece of heaven or hell while we are still alive on this planet. Personally, I believe in free will. I think we should take responsibility for our own decisions, and by we I mean as individuals and the whole of mankind. Obviously, we haven't yet because there are those who still believe in something as ridiculous as karma. Karma is nothing more that a selective observation and negation of others which gives the observer a lopsided perspective on reality. Although in my opinion, karma isn't real, it does have one particular (maybe two) benefits, in that it gives those who actually have a conscience something: conditioning. If someone who believes in karma decides at a moment to do something bad, and then later experiences something bad which happens to them, they will be reminded of all the bad things they've done and feel enormous guilt; this prevents future bad decisions because the fear of experiencing enormous guilt again, and that the enforcer of karma (god perhaps) disapproves, which also instills the fear of a greater power who decides the outcome of our rewards or punishments. This is also the same for the opposite; those who do good things we'll feel reassured that the greater power which controls karma approves of their decisions, and they will feel safe from bad events or experiences within the future and be rewarded for good deeds. The problem with this that this doesn't leave any room for goodwill. Shouldn't we have goodwill, rather then doing good out of fear of karma? Shouldn't we let our own consciences' make our decisions rather then letting some arbitrary belief like karma control them? I believe so.



Last edited by rojasje87 on 28 Aug 2010, 9:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.

happymusic
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28 Aug 2010, 9:04 pm

Oh god. My eyes just broke.



OneStepBeyond
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28 Aug 2010, 9:06 pm

happymusic wrote:
Oh god. My eyes just broke.


lol :D



League_Girl
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28 Aug 2010, 9:32 pm

Block text broken up.

rojasje87 wrote:
Good things happen bad people, but they also happen to good people. Also, good and bad things happen to both good and bad people.

In order to answer such a question another must first be asked: Do you believe in free will? The reason why this question needs to be asked first is because one of the implications discerned from the original question "Do you believe in Karma" is that if you do believe in karma, then how would it be possible to at the same time believe in free will? The answer is that it is not possible if you think logically.

The reason is that karma negates free will. If karma can be understood as the enforcement of the consequences of our actions which is controlled by an enforcer (god) from outside the realm of our existence, then this would mean our own actions or causes don't lead to our own effects or consequences, and free will goes right out the door.

Furthermore, cause and effect leaves no room for karma; our actions (causes) are actually effects caused by previous effects, and from which those effects will cause subsequent effects. The only way to alter the pattern of cause and effect would be to alter the conscience of a decision making being. What this would imply is that the notion of karma is actually a paradox because the only way to alter or influence a conscience would be to physically alter the brain, and the only ways to achieve this is through drugs which will ultimately changes our thoughts and alters perspective on reality and make us delusional because we can't see reality for what it truly is. But, we can also change our thoughts by making a conscious decision to do so, which would actually be employing freewill.

Therefore, karma is actually a delusion created by our own thoughts through our own free will which alters our conscience because we can't see reality for what it actually is; a reality which obeys the laws of physics more specifically cause and effect; karma is actually the effect of its own cause; a paradox.

Basically, karma is only true because we decide to make it true or to accept it, but we can also decide to not believe in it, and in that case it actually doesn't exist because it has no effect on our conscience. Ultimately, to believe in free will is to not believe in karma, and to believe in karma is to not leave any room for our own free will. In a way, karma is similar to the notion that we will be punished or rewarded in heaven our hell after we perish depending on our decisions now hear on earth, but karma instead either gives us little piece of heaven or hell while we are still alive on this planet.

Personally, I believe in free will. I think we should take responsibility for our own decisions, and by we I mean as individuals and the whole of mankind. Obviously, we haven't yet because there are those who still believe in something as ridiculous as karma.

Karma is nothing more that a selective observation and negation of others which gives the observer a lopsided perspective on reality, and those who believe karma are oblivious to the fact that it's just as likely that good things will happen to good people as bad things will happen to bad people if it is taken from the perspective of the individual in which that something happened to.

Although in my opinion, karma isn't real, it does have one particular (maybe two) benefits, in that it gives those who actually have a conscience something: conditioning.

If someone who believes in karma decides at a moment to do something bad, and then later experiences something bad which happens to them, they will be reminded of all the bad things they've done and feel enormous guilt; this prevents future bad decisions because the fear of experiencing enormous guilt again, and that the enforcer of karma (god perhaps) disapproves, which also instills the fear of a greater power who decides the outcome of our rewards or punishments.

This is also the same for the opposite; those who do good things we'll feel reassured that the greater power which controls karma approves of their decisions, and they will feel safe from bad events or experiences within the future and be rewarded for good deeds. The problem with this that this doesn't leave any room for goodwill. Shouldn't we have goodwill, rather then doing good out of fear of karma? Shouldn't we let our own consciences' make our decisions rather then letting some arbitrary belief like karma control them? I believe so.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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28 Aug 2010, 11:36 pm

Thank you for breaking that post up, League_Girl.


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blue_bean
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29 Aug 2010, 12:09 am

I make karma exist by being a Dexter Morgan-esque serial killer :!:



marshall
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29 Aug 2010, 12:14 am

no.