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C2V
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16 Dec 2017, 9:48 pm

Ashariel wrote:
I like you, C2V. You remind me of myself, in that you make a sincere effort to try to say helpful things to people, even if you might not instinctively know the right thing to say. Once in a while that tactic is going to result in unintentionally offending people, which is a stereotypical autistic trait, and you just have to do damage control and apologize as best you can, but not beat yourself up for having a 'social blindness' problem that's not your fault.

If you can handle a little blunt honesty - there was one time when you seemed dismissive/skeptical of my problem, which I found hurtful, but I realize you just didn't understand, and it's not your fault.

*waves to fellow unpopulars*

See, that's helpful. :D So thanks for that! It's a bit of a catch 22 though - say you are told this approach can cause offense, but because you're autistic and can't communicate you're going to have no way of understanding if it is offensive - what's the alternative? Seems to me the alternative would be to not even try to help or respond to people, which might be just as bad. Then others would think you had no interest in them or helping them out.
I guess it comes from an impaired understanding of what people have told me is hurtful for them before. Others have said that they find it hurtful if people just ignore them, don't show interest in their problems, don't respond to them or "don't care." So I've tried to prevent people being damaged in that way, by respond to their problems.
Umm but it seems my sort of response isn't actually helpful anyway. So I suppose it's not a great approach.
Needless to note, I never mean to be dismissive of people. We all have our own perceptions and all a subjective creature can do is respond from their own.
I do try to understand but it's seemingly more and more hopeless.


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Ashariel
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16 Dec 2017, 9:54 pm

I hear you on all that. I vacillate between trying to show people I care (which I do), vs. keeping quiet because I know I really, really suck at guessing what's a helpful thing to say. In my own case I feel like I'm 'socially tone deaf', like someone who thinks they're good at singing but they're actually terrible at it, and should just shut up.



C2V
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16 Dec 2017, 10:33 pm

Ashariel wrote:
I hear you on all that. I vacillate between trying to show people I care (which I do), vs. keeping quiet because I know I really, really suck at guessing what's a helpful thing to say. In my own case I feel like I'm 'socially tone deaf', like someone who thinks they're good at singing but they're actually terrible at it, and should just shut up.

Hah, yep, exactly the same thought I've been having.
Because I can't seem to work it out - it's here at WP but also elsewhere. I'm being conscientious (or so I think) I'm being friendly, I'm being cooperative, I'm responding to people when they communicate a problem and suggesting things which I think might help them to fix their issue and be happier, I'm making sure they don't feel ignored or that no one cares that they are having difficulties ... so why isn't this working? What's the problem? It seems like people still can't stand me and I really don't see how else I could have responded, other than just ignore them, which they have told me is damaging to them.
I often see others responding in a way like "I'm sorry you feel that way, that must be hard for you," etc. Like ... validating that person's misery?
I don't understand the point of that. It offers no solution to the problem, so I don't think it's useful of me to respond that way. Plus of course, I cannot feel the way they feel or understand what that feeling is.
But like you I think maybe I should just shut up. The evidence seems to be in that what I'm doing isn't helpful, for me or for other people. Obviously, I have misunderstood, and need to revise my strategy (though how, I can't imagine).
I guess I have been trying to use these situations to learn to act human, and observe the results. Does it help other people? Does it result in people liking me better and having less issues with me? Seems not. I see other people being liked easily when they seemingly put in no effort, and it's a lot of effort for me and it still doesn't help my social understanding.
So yeah, maybe I should just shut up.


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17 Dec 2017, 12:52 am

In the same mix with y'all, big problem for me has also been explaining my own pain


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Ashariel
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17 Dec 2017, 1:40 am

C2V wrote:
I often see others responding in a way like "I'm sorry you feel that way, that must be hard for you," etc. Like ... validating that person's misery?


Yeah I don't really get that either, but apparently that's the empathetic thing to say? When I try to say that stuff it just feels like I'm spouting empty platitudes, copy-pasting from a generic script, without actually give a crap at all.

But when I try to say something thoughtful and heartfelt, it comes out even worse, so maybe it's not such a bad tactic after all? Haha



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17 Dec 2017, 7:35 am

It's not telling them that they should be miserable. It's empathizing with them and telling them you understand how they feel.

Some people don't like to be given advice. They just want someone to show they care and listen to them.

I'm autistic. I don't always know what's the best way to respond or how to help people. But I don't want to do nothing at all. So I respond the best way I can, by giving words of encouragement and support. I imagine it's the same for others as well.



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17 Dec 2017, 9:24 am

TheAP wrote:
Some people don't like to be given advice. They just want someone to show they care and listen to them.


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17 Dec 2017, 10:39 am

Well, it's true. Some problems aren't as easily fixed as having a nail in your head. I can't fix someone's mental illness to relationship problems. But why shouldn't I try to help in the best way I can?



Ashariel
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17 Dec 2017, 10:48 am

TheAP wrote:
It's not telling them that they should be miserable. It's empathizing with them and telling them you understand how they feel


Good point, and yes that's definitely the goal. The problem is we struggle with empathy, and in fact don't understand how they feel. We care, we want to help, we try to understand, but we're often told that we don't understand at all, and that our attempt to help has made the person feel even worse.

That's the point where silence is arguably better than saying something hurtful.



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17 Dec 2017, 5:02 pm

Ashariel wrote:
C2V wrote:
I often see others responding in a way like "I'm sorry you feel that way, that must be hard for you," etc. Like ... validating that person's misery?


Yeah I don't really get that either, but apparently that's the empathetic thing to say? When I try to say that stuff it just feels like I'm spouting empty platitudes, copy-pasting from a generic script, without actually give a crap at all.

But when I try to say something thoughtful and heartfelt, it comes out even worse, so maybe it's not such a bad tactic after all? Haha



When I try to say stuff it can feel like that to me. I think people want me to be happy, but calm and quiet and out of the way, but admit to it in a way that doesn't make it sound depressing. I'm not some savant who has a special X-Men ability that no one understands. I really want those little things that most people overlook, a life where you aren't isolated most of the time, saying no politely, and having common relatable dislikes and interests... Unfortunately most people wish that they could have the life of living in an institution where everything is given to you. I mean yeah that can make you happy, but after awhile it drags and drains and you feel dried out like a prisoner.



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17 Dec 2017, 5:12 pm

Ashariel wrote:
TheAP wrote:
It's not telling them that they should be miserable. It's empathizing with them and telling them you understand how they feel


Good point, and yes that's definitely the goal. The problem is we struggle with empathy, and in fact don't understand how they feel. We care, we want to help, we try to understand, but we're often told that we don't understand at all, and that our attempt to help has made the person feel even worse.

That's the point where silence is arguably better than saying something hurtful.


Quite True


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18 Dec 2017, 8:33 pm

America sucks,

That is my unpopular opinion and that thread seems to have disappeared so I am gonna leave this here. Its the United States of shame with clusters of corruption called everyone else around them corrupt. I am ashamed to be a part of this nation as it stands now.

Just saying...



KyleTheGhost
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29 Dec 2017, 5:35 am

Question: Who would in a fight between Ares and Hades? War vs. Death?


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kazanscube
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29 Dec 2017, 2:05 pm

KyleTheGhost wrote:
Question: Who would in a fight between Ares and Hades? War vs. Death?



Difficult questions to answer, since Hades is the Greek god of the Underworld, I'd say that, Hades would have the advantage. As far as the 2nd confrontation, Death holds sway over all things regardless.


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EzraS
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01 Jan 2018, 12:11 pm

How about which would win in a fight between marshmallow vs meringue?



kraftiekortie
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01 Jan 2018, 12:14 pm

Marshmallow, definitely! They are more resilient and don't break easily like meringues.