Page 11 of 16 [ 244 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 16  Next

MidoriNoKaori
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 90

26 Aug 2016, 8:49 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Neat :)

By the way, farsa means ‘farce’ in Spanish and Portuguese, and ‘farcical’ in Esperanto (-a is the Esperanto adjectival ending; the noun for ‘farce’ is farso).


Being neat reminds me of word home, which means someone's place to live in English but in Finnish it means mold - and government 8O in Estonian.



Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

26 Aug 2016, 10:41 am

Well, home means ‘man’ in Catalan and dialectal, non-standard Portuguese (the standard form being homem, where the final -m generally isn’t pronounced as a consonant; it just means the preceding e is nasal). Neither is pronounced anything like the English word; much closer (according to Wiktionary) to the Finnish one, except with the h silent and without that funny thing at the end represented in IPA by a superscripted x :P


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


MidoriNoKaori
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 90

27 Aug 2016, 3:56 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Well, home means ‘man’ in Catalan and dialectal, non-standard Portuguese (the standard form being homem, where the final -m generally isn’t pronounced as a consonant; it just means the preceding e is nasal). Neither is pronounced anything like the English word; much closer (according to Wiktionary) to the Finnish one, except with the h silent and without that funny thing at the end represented in IPA by a superscripted x :P


Ok. I don't know about Portuguese or Catalan or Spanish, but in French word for man is homme - pronounced without the letter h in the beginning (as in French usually is). Might be something to do with that Spanish, French and Catalan belong to the same language group :-)

The French word on which is used normally in passive structures (on ne sait pas - it isn't known) is also related to the word homme.



Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

30 Aug 2016, 4:51 pm

MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Ok. I don't know about Portuguese or Catalan or Spanish, but in French word for man is homme - pronounced without the letter h in the beginning (as in French usually is). Might be something to do with that Spanish, French and Catalan belong to the same language group :-)

The French word on which is used normally in passive structures (on ne sait pas - it isn't known) is also related to the word homme.


Yeah, I guess I should have thought of that. In Portuguese, the loss of Latin intervocalic -n- is a regular feature of its evolution, not found, to my knowledge, in other Romance languages, but, funnily enough, a word like hominem may end up more or less with the same form for different reasons, like simplifying the mn group which results from the weakening of the i. Only Spanish seems to differ starkly in this regard, since, in these cases, the n was dissimilated from the m into r, and then an intervening b developed to ease pronunciation, giving hombre.

Of course, languages like Italian, which evolved their word for ‘man’ from the nominative homo, rather than the accusative hominem, also ended up with a word a bit different, but that’s another story.

By the way, Esperanto home means ‘humanly’.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

04 Sep 2016, 1:45 pm

Esperanto zumo (‘buzz, hum’) and Spanish zumo (‘juice’). The leading z is pronounced differently; there are no voiced sibilants in modern Spanish.

Esperanto sumo (‘sum’) and Portuguese sumo (‘juice’). Pronounced almost the same, except you can’t tell a final, unstressed -o from a -u in spoken Portuguese, while you really should be able to in Esperanto.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

06 Sep 2016, 9:42 am

English heifer and Spanish jefe (‘boss, chief’). Pronounced as closely as phonetics allows for non-rhotic English dialects.

I’ve just noticed this pair, after remembering a certain someone asking me online, “Is your girlfriend a heifer?”.

EDIT – On second thought, the non-rhotic pronunciation of English heifer is even closer to that of the feminine form jefa :lol: English has only one final, unstressed vowel to approximate both Spanish -e and -a, but it definitely sounds more like the latter to Spanish speakers.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

15 Sep 2016, 4:53 pm

Catalan estic (‘[I] am’, used roughly to describe a state, as opposed to an essence, for which the corresponding verb form is sóc; Catalan has two copulative verbs, like Spanish and Portuguese) and English stick. In eastern Catalan dialects, the leading e is pronounced as a schwa, certainly laxer than a Spanish unstressed initial e followed by an s, which makes the word sound closer to the English one than it could otherwise be expected to.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

20 Sep 2016, 3:46 pm

The English phrase speak a language sounds similar enough to Spanish pica [la] lengua ('[the/your/one's] tongue itches'; in childish speech, it can mean by itself 'my tongue is itching') for the following verse of "Galway Bay" to evoke an itching tongue ...

Arthur Colahan wrote:
For the breezes blowing o'er the seas from Ireland
Are perfumed by the heather as they blow,
And the women in the uplands, digging praties,
Speak a language that the strangers do not know,


... when heard this way by a Spanish speaker:

Quote:
<something utterly incomprehensible>
<ditto>
<ditto>
pica [la] lengua <ditto>


The leading s- in speak is easily and unconsciously ignored, because it doesn't occur in Spanish in a syllable-initial position followed by another consonant. Another possible meaning of pica la lengua is (imperative) 'mince the tongue' (presumably a pig or a cow's).

Similarly, speak English sounds pretty reminiscent of pican [las] ingles ('[the/your/one's] groins itch'). Note the unaccented e, meaning the word stress falls on its default position, which is on the leading syllable in this case: IN - gles. It's a different and unrelated word from inglés ('English'), where the stress falls on the second syllable.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


MidoriNoKaori
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 90

03 Oct 2016, 2:02 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Esperanto zumo (‘buzz, hum’) and Spanish zumo (‘juice’). The leading z is pronounced differently; there are no voiced sibilants in modern Spanish.


すみませんが、また日本語をちょっとかいています。

In Finnish and Japanese languages, there are some same and different words... Few examples below...

Sumu (住む) means to live in Japanese but in Finnish it is fog,
Hana (はな) means either flower (花) or nose (鼻) in Japanese, in Finnish it is a word for (water) tap.
Himo (ひも) means a cord or cords used for example to tie a kimono, in Finnish it means lust.
Hima (ひま) means freetime or sparetime in Japanese - and coincindentally - it is also a word for homee in Finnish slang or spoken language,
Tori (とり) means bird (鳥) in Japanese - a market place in Finnish.
Kasa (かさ) means umbrella (傘) in Japanese, a pile of (something) in Finnish.



Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

03 Oct 2016, 3:28 pm

Catalan truita can mean both 'omelette' and 'trout'. Dialectal Portuguese truita (standard truta) means only 'trout'.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,159
Location: temperate zone

03 Oct 2016, 5:21 pm

MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Well, home means ‘man’ in Catalan and dialectal, non-standard Portuguese (the standard form being homem, where the final -m generally isn’t pronounced as a consonant; it just means the preceding e is nasal). Neither is pronounced anything like the English word; much closer (according to Wiktionary) to the Finnish one, except with the h silent and without that funny thing at the end represented in IPA by a superscripted x :P


Ok. I don't know about Portuguese or Catalan or Spanish, but in French word for man is homme - pronounced without the letter h in the beginning (as in French usually is). Might be something to do with that Spanish, French and Catalan belong to the same language group :-)

The French word on which is used normally in passive structures (on ne sait pas - it isn't known) is also related to the word homme.


Even Anglo North Americans fear "bands of bad hombres"! Lol! (thanks to the linguist exchange between Mexico and the American West between Spanish and English in the common cowboy culture of both countries).

Catalan, French, Portugese, and Spanish, are all Romance languages (both Gaul, and the Iberian peninsula were conquered by Rome). So their words for "man" all have the family resemblence to "homo" (the ancient Latin word for "man") from which each languages' word derives.

And of course Latin is why all fossil hominids have the word "homo" in their scientific names (homo sapiens, homo erectus, homo hablis, etc).

But on the other hand....speaking of "false friends": the Latin "homo" has NO kinship to the Greek word "homo" which means "same".

From the Greek we get "homogenized milk". And we also get "homosexual" (being attracted to the same sex). Some folks wrongly think that the "homo" in "homosexual" is from the Latin "homo" (man) and wrongly think that the word "homosexual" only applies to men who are attracted to other men, and that Lesbians arent "homosexuals" (logically that would also mean that straight women would BE 'homosexuals'). But that is a misconception (gay men, and lesbians, are both classed as homosexual because both groups attracted to their own same gender).



MidoriNoKaori
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 90

04 Oct 2016, 8:17 am

naturalplastic wrote:
MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Well, home means ‘man’ in Catalan and dialectal, non-standard Portuguese (the standard form being homem, where the final -m generally isn’t pronounced as a consona8nt; it just means the preceding e is nasal). Neither is pronounced anything like the English word; much closer (according to Wiktionary) to the Finnish one, except with the h silent and without that funny thing at the end represented in IPA by a superscripted x :P


Ok. I don't know about Portuguese or Catalan or Spanish, but in French word for man is homme - pronounced without the letter h in the beginning (as in French usually is). Might be something to do with that Spanish, French and Catalan belong to the same language group :-)

The French word on which is used normally in passive structures (on ne sait pas - it isn't known) is also related to the word homme.


Even Anglo North Americans fear "bands of bad hombres"! Lol! (thanks to the linguist exchange between Mexico and the American West between Spanish and English in the common cowboy culture of both countries).


To comfuse more with similar-like words, French word ombre (derived from Latin word umbra) means shadow or shade. English word for umbrella is also - according to some internet sources - deriving from same source meaning "sunshade, parasol".



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,159
Location: temperate zone

04 Oct 2016, 4:33 pm

MidoriNoKaori wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Well, home means ‘man’ in Catalan and dialectal, non-standard Portuguese (the standard form being homem, where the final -m generally isn’t pronounced as a consona8nt; it just means the preceding e is nasal). Neither is pronounced anything like the English word; much closer (according to Wiktionary) to the Finnish one, except with the h silent and without that funny thing at the end represented in IPA by a superscripted x :P


Ok. I don't know about Portuguese or Catalan or Spanish, but in French word for man is homme - pronounced without the letter h in the beginning (as in French usually is). Might be something to do with that Spanish, French and Catalan belong to the same language group :-)

The French word on which is used normally in passive structures (on ne sait pas - it isn't known) is also related to the word homme.


Even Anglo North Americans fear "bands of bad hombres"! Lol! (thanks to the linguist exchange between Mexico and the American West between Spanish and English in the common cowboy culture of both countries).


To comfuse more with similar-like words, French word ombre (derived from Latin word umbra) means shadow or shade. English word for umbrella is also - according to some internet sources - deriving from same source meaning "sunshade, parasol".


Umbrella is likely "umbra" (shade) plus "ella" (little), for "little shade that you carry around"- taken directly from Latin. In modern Spanish that first "h" is always silent. So the French "ombre" probably sounds much like the Spanish "hombre" even though they are unrelated words.



Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

04 Oct 2016, 5:45 pm

In fact, the h in hombre (and most other words with one in any position) has never been pronounced in Spanish. It's purely etymological and wasn't always used. Other instances of h were added for more fancy reasons, like preventing an i or u from being read as j (e.g., hielo, 'ice') or v (huevo, 'egg'; aldehuela, 'little village', diminutive of aldea, 'village'), respectively, when each of these pairs was still considered the same letter, its particular shape being a matter of context or style (compare English haue and vpon for modern have and upon), or to mark a hiatus between vowels which would otherwise form a diphthong (ahíto, 'suffering from indigestion'), before the accent took over this function (reír, 'to laugh'; nowadays, an h which isn't part of the digraph ch has no effect on pronunciation whatsoever, but it was left behind anyway in words where it was already in use when the accent was added).

The only kind of Spanish h which was ever pronounced after Romance languages differentiated from one another is the one coming from initial Latin f, usually revealed by cognates in other Romance languages retaining the latter consonant: hierro ('iron'), horno ('hearth'), hoz ('sickle'); compare French fer, four, faux (noun, unrelated to the homonymic adjective meaning 'false'); Portuguese ferro, forno, fouce/foice; Catalan ferro, forn, falç; Italian ferro, forno, falce. This loss of initial f is due to early Basque influence, which also affected the Gascon dialect of Occitan (in which the word festa 'party, festival', cognate to Spanish fiesta, is rendered as hesta). The f- became an aspiration, which later disappeared; ironically, for most of its existence, the aspiration was still written f-.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


MidoriNoKaori
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 90

06 Oct 2016, 12:57 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
MidoriNoKaori wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Well, home means ‘man’ in Catalan and dialectal, non-standard Portuguese (the standard form being homem, where the final -m generally isn’t pronounced as a consona8nt; it just means the preceding e is nasal). Neither is pronounced anything like the English word; much closer (according to Wiktionary) to the Finnish one, except with the h silent and without that funny thing at the end represented in IPA by a superscripted x :P


Ok. I don't know about Portuguese or Catalan or Spanish, but in French word for man is homme - pronounced without the letter h in the beginning (as in French usually is). Might be something to do with that Spanish, French and Catalan belong to the same language group :-)

The French word on which is used normally in passive structures (on ne sait pas - it isn't known) is also related to the word homme.


Even Anglo North Americans fear "bands of bad hombres"! Lol! (thanks to the linguist exchange between Mexico and the American West between Spanish and English in the common cowboy culture of both countries).


To comfuse more with similar-like words, French word ombre (derived from Latin word umbra) means shadow or shade. English word for umbrella is also - according to some internet sources - deriving from same source meaning "sunshade, parasol".


Umbrella is likely "umbra" (shade) plus "ella" (little), for "little shade that you carry around"- taken directly from Latin. In modern Spanish that first "h" is always silent. So he French "ombre" probably sounds much like the Spanish "hombre" even though they are unrelated words.


Sorry, Internet is full of different kind of sources and different kind of etymologies :-)



MidoriNoKaori
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 90

06 Oct 2016, 1:18 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
In fact, the h in hombre (and most other words with one in any position) has never been pronounced in Spanish. It's purely etymological and wasn't always used. Other instances of h were added for more fancy reasons, like preventing an i or u from being read as j (e.g., hielo, 'ice') or v (huevo, 'egg'; aldehuela, 'little village', diminutive of aldea, 'village'), respectively, when each of these pairs was still considered the same letter, its particular shape being a matter of context or style (compare English haue and vpon for modern have and upon), or to mark a hiatus between vowels which would otherwise form a diphthong (ahíto, 'suffering from indigestion'), before the accent took over this function (reír, 'to laugh'; nowadays, an h which isn't part of the digraph ch has no effect on pronunciation whatsoever, but it was left behind anyway in words where it was already in use when the accent was added).

The only kind of Spanish h which was ever pronounced after Romance languages differentiated from one another is the one coming from initial Latin f, usually revealed by cognates in other Romance languages retaining the latter consonant: hierro ('iron'), horno ('hearth'), hoz ('sickle'); compare French fer, four, faux (noun, unrelated to the homonymic adjective meaning 'false'); Portuguese ferro, forno, fouce/foice; Catalan ferro, forn, falç; Italian ferro, forno, falce. This loss of initial f is due to early Basque influence, which also affected the Gascon dialect of Occitan (in which the word festa 'party, festival', cognate to Spanish fiesta, is rendered as hesta). The f- became an aspiration, which later disappeared; ironically, for most of its existence, the aspiration was still written f-.


Little bit out of topic, but one curious thing about not pronouncing and also altering words is seen in certain French words which are written almost the same but pronounced differently compared to English (for example hopital - hospital, ile - ile, chateau - castle).