Dealing with Sexism on WP

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I believe in men's rights, too. I just think most of the existing groups are misguided. It should not be about putting women back in the kitchen but, rather, removing unfair expectations that society places on men. I think MRA should be against traditional society and should strive to complement feminism instead of opposing it. Some aspects of feminism, such as cracking down on aggressive men and rapists, as well as removing the slut stigma, actually benefit most men as much as they benefit women. (just think, if anyone of either gender who has the propensity to engage in rape or sexual harassment were incinerated tomorrow, not only would the gender ratio be much more favorable to those who remain, but women would likely behave far differently if there was no threat of rape or sexual harassment).

The so-called traditional family and its body of laws is overwhelmingly tilted against men and in favor women, so it's almost surprising that feminists, too, oppose much of these laws and traditions. But men have even better reasons to be against the traditional family and family law as it currently exists.

I just don't understand the sexism of MRA. When I was bullied in elementary and high school (for the brief time I was there) and even since, including in the workplace, it was always feminist types who stood up for me to the point that bullying never got very far.

But I have lots of resentment against traditional society and think it is very biased against men. So I have just as much reason to be resentful as anyone. I just think it's more logical to direct it at something other than women.

This is what bothers me. Even the discussions of sexism are sexist.

i think it's worth mentioning that the moderators rarely get any reports of sexism against men or women, so it's up to us to see it in our travels across the board, opening every thread that we can. it is time-consuming to work that way and we have to make very unpopular judgement calls when we do take action. we basically have 2 active moderators and 2 slightly-active moderators right now on a board where there are about 1000 active posters at a time.

getting reports is like having extra hands on deck from people who encounter that stuff. all we need is a PM with a link (click the little graphic of a piece of paper at the top left of the post itself, and the link pops up in your address bar).

Tyri0n, you made a very interesting observation - the worst comments about men I've seen here, were made by man/boys and usually go along the lines "we are all humans (or animals, or autistic) and every man out there is exactly like me (an idiot?) and if you deny it, you're lying" - it's so ridiculous it's funny. Sure, there are a few hateful women around but they seem to be so in general even when they profess their love for other women. You'll find such people everywhere, especially on the internet.

I understand the OP perfectly - reading certain parts of the forum made me feel like going back in time or some skewed alternative reality... Surely, putting things in context I can understand how this happened and the root seems to be that for one reason or another not many people take responsibility for their own lives and actions, or even thoughts. When it comes to dating, such a frame of mind will inevitably lead to blaming the other sex. It's interesting that many women here seem rather inclined to blame and put down themselves for their failed relationships, even when they're abused or taken advantage of... (yes, there are exceptions as I already mentioned)

I don't have a solution I'm afraid, I barely post here anyway... it saddens me to see how many women don't feel welcomed and I hope you'll stick around as some of you make very interesting posts. I'm selfish, I know

I really don't think we are ever going to be able to have an open and honest dialogue on the subject until people are willing to look at it and talk about in terms of: we should not be accepting stereotypes, prejudice or discrimination based on sex or gender in the forums. That goes regardless of which sex or gender you are, especially since there are more than two when it comes to both.

A post about a specific person should be kept to a specific person. If somebody makes a post based on observations that are forming a viable pattern and attempting to understand that then fair enough. But there is a difference between one person doing that and all people of said sex or gender doing that, and a difference between in the second example, somebody going around making judgements and applying them to the point it becomes stereotyping and prejudiced.

+1.

Furthermore, I can't stress how much I adore constantly being lectured by men on how much easier my life is. It's particularly amusing coming from financially dependent men who still live at home with mommy.

I've noticed plenty of fairly blatant misogyny on this forum and usually the go-to defense for the people who perpetuate it is that misandry also exists. It's almost as if they're saying "It's ok for me to have sexist attitude because i'm the real victim." Or "This woman is refuting me by accusing me of misogyny she must hate men." Even if misandry was as prevelant on this board (I certainly haven't noticed it) the people who espouse that belief are hypocrites as well as sexist.

To be fair, this attitude/logic is human nature in most "debates" though whether it's about religion, gender, race, politics, etc.

I usually determine the winner of a debate using this rule. As soon as someone's defense essentially boils down to something along the lines of "It's ok for me to X because my opponent is Y" that's as good as conceding in my eyes. At best they've revealed the hypocracy in thier postion, at worst they've completely invalidated it.

Oh yeah there are some crazy sexist men in this board, definitely. Altough from some of them I feel like it stems from rejection

It's a distraction technique, though. There is no defense of sexism, so the response is to halt discussion about a problem by focusing on another and claiming it's a matter of fairness. But it's not, it's not a matter of fairness that every time we try to talk about sexism toward women, the conversation HAS TO be directed to sexism toward men or it's JUST NOT FAIR and it's sexist that we aren't talking about how men are also victims.

It prevents the problem ever being dealt with.

Well, we could get bogged down in an endless cycle of rants, red herrings and he-said-she-said diversions; but if there are solutions to the problem of sexism, what might they be?

Thing is a real solution to sexism has to take both sides into account. In both the victim and aggressor roles.

Most of the people on this board who espouse mysogonistic beliefs ARE victims........of a patriarichial system that objectifies women and places the value of a man's worth on his ability to get laid. Most of us have a disability that makes this more difficult than the average man and rather than examine the real root causes of their frustration it's much easier to blame women for their insecurities and come up with overly symplified explanations for thier sexual and social frustrations.

Last edited by Geekonychus on 22 Mar 2013, 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

To clarify, in case I was being too vague, I don't want to solve sexism, I just want solutions to the sexist posts made on the forum.

And I don't know, I have no idea, I guess the only solution is to keep addressing it when it happens.

There's no easy "solution" to sexism but treating every argument like it's an equal two sided debate when one side is clearly wrong certainly isn't one. It's not misandry to call out a man for for saying sexist things. Sexism is misguided in all cases regardless of gender. But rather than aknowledging that, the "both sides" mindset basically just muddies the issue.

This is a really awesome point. I think NT women, like NT men, are mindless drones who respond mechanically to cultural incentives, so it makes little sense to blame them for doing what is merely natural and logical, for doing what everyone EXPECTS them to do, and also for trying to protect themselves from the creepy hypersexual/porn/rape culture on the other side. Rather, blame the culture that causes them to behave that way.

Two things would fix the problem: (1) start by executing or castrating all sex offenders (and make trials much quicker and easier for the prosecution too). (2) Make "slut shaming" a crime, even for juveniles; maybe call it "harassment" or "hate speech." Women would be friendlier and less cruel almost immediately because then they wouldn't have to worry about safety as much.

Yeah sexism does go both ways I made a thread sorta to vent about it a while back of course it got locked which is understandable. I felt so hurt inside that i felt like I was subhuman prior and felt compelled to make the thread. I have been told by a few Misandrist that all men are subhuman etc.