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ASdogGeek
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03 Feb 2010, 9:25 am

bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
bdhkhsfgk wrote:
Autists; [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDMMwG7RrFQ&feature=fvst[/youtube]


I already told you that I have personal experience with people all over the spectrum.

However, if you wanna watch videos, here's one of a girl with AS doing those things that you claimed that aspies don't do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT1k8yAbiIA

Also Autism Speaks suck when it comes to portraying autism in the media.


How old is that girl?

If she's around 10, I understand, it's common for bratty 10-year olds to behave like that, I've seen my NT brother behave like it as well.


She's not trying to be bratty and this is not just some tantrum. She's having a meltdown. The mother even said so. You can't deny the obvious flapping and rocking. A non-autistic child that was just being bratty wouldn't do that. From my experience, they would be defiant or actually leave the room or something. She is overwhelmed by her work but really wants to get it finished. This child is expected to be able to finish this work for up to 45 minutes. This girl takes maybe four hours to overcome the anxiety and frustration she has over seeing any kind of mistake or not being able to understand an aspect of the work (according to the mother). I actually still do stuff like that, even in my old age.

Thing is, you can't deny that she's clearly on the autism spectrum and that she's clearly demonstrating typical autistic traits. Aspies flap, rock and roll (yes, my a poor attempt to be funny).


I never rocked or had meltdowns, I didn't scream uncontrollably when I was angry, I just had violent tantrums 1 or 2 times, I can remember slamming a bat into a guys back a few times and rip off a large amount of his hair and drop small rocks on his head from the floor above, but I can't manage to express anger the way the girl in the video does, it's too difficult for me, sure I used to cry when I didn't manage the homework, that's what children like her does, except when it comes to meltdowns like she expressed.


That sounds like a violent meltdown to me :?



bdhkhsfgk
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03 Feb 2010, 12:07 pm

ASdogGeek wrote:
bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
bdhkhsfgk wrote:
Autists; [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDMMwG7RrFQ&feature=fvst[/youtube]


I already told you that I have personal experience with people all over the spectrum.

However, if you wanna watch videos, here's one of a girl with AS doing those things that you claimed that aspies don't do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT1k8yAbiIA

Also Autism Speaks suck when it comes to portraying autism in the media.


How old is that girl?

If she's around 10, I understand, it's common for bratty 10-year olds to behave like that, I've seen my NT brother behave like it as well.


She's not trying to be bratty and this is not just some tantrum. She's having a meltdown. The mother even said so. You can't deny the obvious flapping and rocking. A non-autistic child that was just being bratty wouldn't do that. From my experience, they would be defiant or actually leave the room or something. She is overwhelmed by her work but really wants to get it finished. This child is expected to be able to finish this work for up to 45 minutes. This girl takes maybe four hours to overcome the anxiety and frustration she has over seeing any kind of mistake or not being able to understand an aspect of the work (according to the mother). I actually still do stuff like that, even in my old age.

Thing is, you can't deny that she's clearly on the autism spectrum and that she's clearly demonstrating typical autistic traits. Aspies flap, rock and roll (yes, my a poor attempt to be funny).


I never rocked or had meltdowns, I didn't scream uncontrollably when I was angry, I just had violent tantrums 1 or 2 times, I can remember slamming a bat into a guys back a few times and rip off a large amount of his hair and drop small rocks on his head from the floor above, but I can't manage to express anger the way the girl in the video does, it's too difficult for me, sure I used to cry when I didn't manage the homework, that's what children like her does, except when it comes to meltdowns like she expressed.


That sounds like a violent meltdown to me :?


Aspies are not the only ones who are capable of violent outbursts, angry NT's and people with ADHD are also capable of doing what I did, they can do worse things to.



makuranososhi
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03 Feb 2010, 12:38 pm

The thread is about the DSM-V; please keep the discussion on topic.


M.


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03 Feb 2010, 3:03 pm

Not much to talk about, regarding the DSM-V,really. Changing the ASDs to ASD seems like somewhat of an improvement.



Zonder
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11 Feb 2010, 10:30 am

From the American Psychiatric Association

Discuss.

American Psychiatric Association wrote:
In making the recommendation to delete Asperger’s disorder, the following questions were considered:

Q.1. Have the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for Asperger Disorder worked?

The ‘Asperger’ label has proved popular, ‘acceptable’, and has widened recognition of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in combination with good language and intelligence. In addition, the introduction of this diagnostic entity has achieved the intended aim of prompting research into possible differences between this and other subgroups of PDD, with more than 500 published articles on Asperger syndrome.

1.1. Do the DSM-IV criteria work in clinical practice?

A number of published papers have argued that the DSM-IV Asperger disorder criteria do not work in the clinic (e.g., Mayes et al., 2001; Miller & Ozonoff, 2000; Leekam, Libby, Wing, Gould & Gillberg, 2000). Specifically, key problems exist in applying the current criteria:

· Early language details are hard to establish in retrospect, especially for older children and adults; average age of first diagnosis is late (7 years according to Mandell et al. 2005; 11yrs, Howlin & Asgharian, 1999).

· The trumping rule means most/all Asperger cases should strictly be diagnosed as having ‘Autistic disorder’ (Miller & Ozonoff, 2000; Bennett et al, 2008; Williams et al, 2008), although clinicians prefer to give the more specific term (Mahoney, et al.,1998)

o Specifically, since language delay is not a necessary criterion for Autistic disorder, to meet criteria for Asperger disorder (without being trumped by Autistic disorder), a person would need to fail to meet Communication criteria for Autistic disorder. In practice, the Communication criterion (B.2.) of “marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others” is typically met by even very able individuals fitting the Asperger picture.

As a result, ‘Asperger syndrome’ is used loosely with little agreement: e.g. Williams et al (2008) survey of 466 professionals reporting on 348 relevant cases, showed 44% of children given Asperger, PDD-NOS, atypical autism, or ‘other ASD’ label actually fulfilled criteria for Autistic Disorder (overall agreement between clinician’s label and DSM-IV criteria; Kappa 0.31).



1.2. Do the DSM-IV criteria delineate a meaningful subgroup for research or practice?

In part because of the difficulty in applying the criteria (as outlined in section 1.1.), different research groups often uses different criteria, and quality of early language milestone information is variable (Eisenmajer et al., 1996; Klin et al., 2005; Woodbury-Smith, Klin, & Volkmar, 2005). Different criteria lead to different samples being identified (see Klin et al, 2005 comparison of 3 diagnostic approaches; also Kopra et al., 2008; Woodbury-Smith et al., 2005).



* Research suggests early language criteria do not demarcate a distinct subgroup with different:
o Course/outcome: Children with autism who develop fluent language have very similar trajectories and later outcomes to children with Asperger disorder (Bennett et al., 2008; Howlin, 2003; Szatmari et al., 2000) and the two conditions are indistinguishable by school-age (Macintosh & Dissanayake, 2004), adolescence (Eisenmajer, Prior, Leekam, Wing, Ong, Gould & Welham 1998; Ozonoff, South and Miller 2000) and adulthood (Howlin, 2003).
o Cause/aetiology: Autism and Asperger syndrome co-occur in the same families (Bolton et al., 1994; Chakrabarti & Fombonne, 2001; Lauritsen et al., 2005; Ghaziuddin, 2005; Volkmar et al., 1998). No clear evidence to date of distinct aetiology.
o Neuro-Cognitive profile: mixed evidence, for example some authors have reported worse motor functioning in Asperger than HFA (Klin et al., 1995; Rinehart et al, 2006), while others have not found significant group differences (Jansiewicz et al., 2006; Manjiviona & Prior, 1995; Miller & Ozonoff, 2000; Thede & Coolidge, 2007). Evidence is similarly mixed for differentiation of Asperger group by lower performance than verbal IQ profile (for, Klin et al, 1995; against, Barnhill et al., 2000; Gilchrist et al., 2001; Ozonoff, South & Miller, 2000; Spek et al., 2008), better theory of mind (for, Ozonoff et al, 2000 ; against, Dahlgren & Trillingsgaard, 1996; Spek et al, in press JADD; Barbaro & Dissanayake 2007) or executive function (for, Rinehart et al, 2006; reviewed by Klin, McPartland & Volkmar, 2005 ; against, Miller & Ozonoff, 2000; Thede & Coolidge, 2007; Verte et al., 2006) . Note the risk of circularity for group differences relating to verbal ability, since early language development (grouping criterion) is generally predictive of later language abilities (Paul & Cohen, 1984; Rutter, Greenfield & Lockyer, 1967; Rutter, Mawhood & Howlin, 1992).
o Treatment needs/response: no empirical studies demonstrating the need for different treatments or different responses to the same treatment, and in clinical practice the same interventions are typically offered.

Q.2. Does the existing research literature allow us to suggest new criteria to diagnose Asperger Disorder, in contrast to Autistic Disorder/ASD?

The current clinical and research consensus appears to be that Asperger disorder is part of the autism spectrum, although with possible over-use of the term it is quite likely that other (non-ASD) types of individuals have received this label.

Research field currently reflects two views:

o That Asperger disorder is not substantially different from other forms of ‘high functioning’ autism (HFA); i.e. Asperger’s is the part of the autism spectrum with good formal language skills and good (at least Verbal) IQ. Note that ‘HFA’ is itself a vague term, with underspecification of the area of ‘high functioning’ (performance IQ, verbal IQ, adaptation, or symptom severity).
o That Asperger disorder is distinct from other subgroups within the autism spectrum (see Matson & Wilkins, 2008, review): e.g. Klin, et al. (2005) suggest the lack of differentiating findings reflects the need for a more stringent approach, with a more nuanced view of onset patterns and early language (e.g. one-sided verbosity, unusual circumscribed interests).

2.1. What are the proposed differences? How strong is the evidence?

Several recent comprehensive reviews of the topic are available (Howlin, 2003; Macintosh & Dissanayake, 2004; Matson & Wilkins, 2008; Witwer & Lecavalier, 2008). Matson & Wilkins (2008) suggest current criteria could work if refined and supplemented. However, the research literature to date is not able to provide strong, replicated support for new or modified criteria likely to distinguish a meaningfully different group with Asperger disorder versus autism with good (current) language and IQ. Witwer and Lecavalier’s (2008) perhaps more comprehensive review concludes there is little evidence that Aspergers is distinct, and that current IQ is the main differentiating factor. Bennett et al’s (2008) follow-up study suggests that language impairment at 6-8years might have greater prognostic value than early language milestones, and Szatmari et al (2009) argue (on the basis of later developmental trajectory) for a distinction between ASD with (autism) versus without (Aspergers) structural language impairment at 6-8 years.

The draft criteria for ASD proposed by the Neurodevelopmental disorders workgroup would include dimensions of severity that include current language functioning and intellectual level/disability.



Q.3. If Asperger disorder does not appear in DSM-V as a separate diagnostic category, how will continuity and clarity be maintained for those with the diagnosis?

The aim of the draft criteria is that every person who has significant impairment in social-communication and RRBI should meet appropriate diagnostic criteria. Language impairment/delay is not a necessary criterion for diagnosis of ASD, and thus anyone who shows the Asperger type pattern of good language and IQ but significantly impaired social-communication and repetitive/restricted behavior and interests, who might previously have been given the Asperger disorder diagnosis, should now meet criteria for ASD, and be described dimensionally. The workgroup aims to provide detailed symptom examples suitable for all ages and language levels, so that ASD will not be missed by clinicians in adults of average or superior IQ who are experiencing clinical levels of difficulty.

There may be some individuals with subclinical features of Asperger/ASD who seek out a diagnosis of ‘Asperger Disorder’ in order to understand themselves better (perhaps following an autism diagnosis in a relative), rather than because of clinical-level impairment in everyday life. While such a use of the term may be close to Hans Asperger’s reference to a personality type, it is outside the scope of DSM, which explicitly concerns clinically-significant and impairing disorders. ‘Asperger-type’, like ‘Kanner-type’, may continue to be a useful shorthand for clinicians describing a constellation of features, or area of the multi-dimensional space defined by social/communication impairments, repetitive/restricted behaviour and interests, and IQ and language abilities.



Danielismyname
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11 Feb 2010, 10:44 am

I like the whole, "... it is outside the scope of DSM, which explicitly concerns clinically-significant and impairing disorders."

Which is what I've been saying for so long on this forum.

If you have Asperger's Disorder, you won't be left behind.



colonel1fan
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11 Feb 2010, 11:47 am

I don't know how I feel about this. First of all, I won't have to try and explain what Asperger's is to anyone because I would fall under autism and almost everybody has heard of and knows what it is and when I tell people that I have (autism) people can take one look at me and see that I am able to do a lot of things.

On the other hand, I don't know how the autism label would affect how people look at me. I felt different in the way that I have something that not a lot of people have and felt special in a way that I could tell people I had Asperger's and they would not know what that was and I would have to explain what that was and I could explain it in my own way and not make it sound like it WAS autism. If I was under the (autism) label I would never get that kind of feeling. I guess I just don't know what it's like to have autism and so I don't know how people/friends react to those with autism, especially those who are high-functioning.

I guess I could still say I have Asperger's because that's what my diagnosis says and that's the only think I have ever been diagnosed with so that's the only thing I know. But then, I guess I will have to say that I have autism as well because that's what the new dsm is gonna say. But we'll see, I guess. It'll work out. See, I have accepted what ever comes my way, even if I'm not happy about it.


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11 Feb 2010, 12:06 pm

I'm honestly dreading it, I didn't want it to change. I'm comfortable with how things are anyway, I've been diagnosed AS and nothing else, yes I know it's the same thing as autism but that's what my official diagnosis is. I don't want it all swapping around and messed with.


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bdhkhsfgk
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11 Feb 2010, 12:19 pm

MONKEY wrote:
I've been diagnosed AS and nothing else, yes I know it's the same thing as autism


Aspergers and autism is not the same.



MONKEY
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11 Feb 2010, 12:30 pm

bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I've been diagnosed AS and nothing else, yes I know it's the same thing as autism


Aspergers and autism is not the same.


Yeah the names aren't the same but AS is a type of autism on the more high funtioning end. The symptoms of AS and autism especially HFA overlap so much there are aspies that really should have been diagnosed with plain autism and vice versa.

It's all part of the autism spectrum at the end of the day.


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11 Feb 2010, 12:34 pm

bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I've been diagnosed AS and nothing else, yes I know it's the same thing as autism


Aspergers and autism is not the same.


As AS is part of the autistic spectrum, the two words have been used interchangeably; this will likely become more common. No, they're not the same - Asperger's is a subsection within autism. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you are arguing here.


M.


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bdhkhsfgk
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11 Feb 2010, 12:36 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
bdhkhsfgk wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I've been diagnosed AS and nothing else, yes I know it's the same thing as autism


Aspergers and autism is not the same.


As AS is part of the autistic spectrum, the two words have been used interchangeably; this will likely become more common. No, they're not the same - Asperger's is a subsection within autism. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you are arguing here.


M.


Edited.



Last edited by bdhkhsfgk on 11 Feb 2010, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zonder
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11 Feb 2010, 2:12 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
I like the whole, "... it is outside the scope of DSM, which explicitly concerns clinically-significant and impairing disorders."

Which is what I've been saying for so long on this forum.

If you have Asperger's Disorder, you won't be left behind.


Hopefully they will clarify what to now has been a rather subjective and vague definition of "clinically-significant and impairing", particularly for different age ranges.

Z



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22 Aug 2010, 8:54 am

[quote="ruennsheng"]Back to the thread again.

I find that DSM-V brings hope to the PDD-NOS. Finally it seems there will be new criteria for the 'unclassified'...

I feel relieved. :thumright:


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frag
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22 Aug 2010, 10:07 am

I will NEVER say I'm autistic...

I mean sure AS always been on the autism SPECTRUM, but the word autistic I don't think rings anything like being on the spectrum.

I am an aspie.

So there.

And like I already wrote... I will NOT be seen as autistic in the new DSM because it tries to narrow down autism and I'll be on the outside.

Why....? So some people will get less help?

Luckily we don't ONLY use DSM here where I live so... maybe it will be different here.



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22 Aug 2010, 10:27 am

Like I said in another place, the proposed criteria for "Autism Spectrum Disorder" is, basically, the old criteria for "Autistic Disorder", only written with different words.

Then, most people that were diagnosed with AS or PDD/NOS, if they were diagnosed correctly (instead of the psychiatrist thinking "these kid is autistic, but if I told this to the parents, they will become in tears; it is better I tell them that he has Asperger's"), are not covered by the new criteria