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magz
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05 Feb 2020, 12:37 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
There's something that I would like to ask and there maybe exceptions here, but as far as I can comprehend, that most of us who mask tend to have above average intelligence? (I am certainly not implying that anyone who is highly intelligent is in any way any more valueable then someone who is not which sadly can be implied in our cruel society we live in. Oh how I hate the way society goes where they make people who lack the mental ability to become high fliers in life feel like they have failed, and somehow the high fliers are looked on as if they have success. While I certainly do not want to hamper anyone from making it to the top as we need peolke from all abilities in life, I do feel sad when society makes those with less intelligence feel undervalued. You are valueable whatever intelligency you have and whoever you are!).

But I am also thinking that above average intelligence for someone on the spectrum is a negative thing due to the difficulties faced with burnout and mental issues later in life?

(Please note. I am just exploring my thoughts here and sharing theories).

I am thinking of someone who does not mask. Now when a child it is probably likely that this person would be discovered by the teachers as being different, and this person is far more likely to be assessed at an early age... And it is also likely that this person is more likely to attend a special school which is designed to provide a less demanding enviroment to prevent stress etc?
Now for a person in this situation the need to mask is less pronounced. They are less likely to be trying to fit in and appear as an NT because they have been discovered at an early age and adjustments were made to their lives to accomodate their needs.
And to others who have low IQ's they may be just concentrating on surviving so the thought of trying to mask (Even if on a subconcious level) may not even cross their minds.

But to someone who is of above average intelligence (Or average in some cases), they are far more likely to conciously and subconciously develop ways to mask their traits because in the allistic realms they find themselves in, they stand out a mile and they therefore want to limit their differences so they are not picked on by other pupils (Or workmates etc) or by teachers who have not realized that their stimming is related to autism, and therefore will assume that the pupil can just prevent the stim without it taking such great mental effort and stress. (Allistic people who are not on the autistic spectrum can stop doing something and hardly think about it. They just stop, and to be fair... Some of the stimming comes across to a teacher as some sort of annoying habbit. The teachers often are not trained to pick up on autism traits, so they do not realize what they are. They just think "That child is doing something distracting so I will tell that child to stop").

But later in life all the masking can start to effect a person when they hit some sort of crises in their lives and they can hit burnout and then everything happens! They end up in a mess!

Now I am just pushing some theories out. Nothing more.

My case fits your theory - the skill I employed for masking is exactly the one that makes me score high in IQ tests: ability to notice patterns and rules behind data. I could notice which behaviors of me lead to what behaviors of others and then usually follow the strategy of making others leave me alone.

Collapsed at toddlers 24/7.


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Last edited by magz on 05 Feb 2020, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Karamazov
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05 Feb 2020, 12:38 pm

BTDT wrote:
I think it helps if you can work in your own office and can close the door when stressed.


Yes, work environment where applicable is a big factor.

I’ve worked in factories, those weren’t that good for me,
A building design office, which if anything was worse,
And as a self-employed gardener: which is much better because I’m in essence alone most of the time, and no fluorescent lights to deal with!
I do four hours once a week pricing books for a charity shop: feels good to make that part of my life, but I find it more tiring than laying block paving! :lol:



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05 Feb 2020, 12:52 pm

magz wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
There's something that I would like to ask and there maybe exceptions here, but as far as I can comprehend, that most of us who mask tend to have above average intelligence? (I am certainly not implying that anyone who is highly intelligent is in any way any more valueable then someone who is not which sadly can be implied in our cruel society we live in. Oh how I hate the way society goes where they make people who lack the mental ability to become high fliers in life feel like they have failed, and somehow the high fliers are looked on as if they have success. While I certainly do not want to hamper anyone from making it to the top as we need peolke from all abilities in life, I do feel sad when society makes those with less intelligence feel undervalued. You are valueable whatever intelligency you have and whoever you are!).

But I am also thinking that above average intelligence for someone on the spectrum is a negative thing due to the difficulties faced with burnout and mental issues later in life?

(Please note. I am just exploring my thoughts here and sharing theories).

I am thinking of someone who does not mask. Now when a child it is probably likely that this person would be discovered by the teachers as being different, and this person is far more likely to be assessed at an early age... And it is also likely that this person is more likely to attend a special school which is designed to provide a less demanding enviroment to prevent stress etc?
Now for a person in this situation the need to mask is less pronounced. They are less likely to be trying to fit in and appear as an NT because they have been discovered at an early age and adjustments were made to their lives to accomodate their needs.
And to others who have low IQ's they may be just concentrating on surviving so the thought of trying to mask (Even if on a subconcious level) may not even cross their minds.

But to someone who is of above average intelligence (Or average in some cases), they are far more likely to conciously and subconciously develop ways to mask their traits because in the allistic realms they find themselves in, they stand out a mile and they therefore want to limit their differences so they are not picked on by other pupils (Or workmates etc) or by teachers who have not realized that their stimming is related to autism, and therefore will assume that the pupil can just prevent the stim without it taking such great mental effort and stress. (Allistic people who are not on the autistic spectrum can stop doing something and hardly think about it. They just stop, and to be fair... Some of the stimming comes across to a teacher as some sort of annoying habbit. The teachers often are not trained to pick up on autism traits, so they do not realize what they are. They just think "That child is doing something distracting so I will tell that child to stop").

But later in life all the masking can start to effect a person when they hit some sort of crises in their lives and they can hit burnout and then everything happens! They end up in a mess!

Now I am just pushing some theories out. Nothing more.

My case fits your theory - the skill I employed for masking is exactly the one that makes me score high in IQ tests: ability to notice patterns and rules behind data. I could notice which behaviors of me lead to what behaviors of others and then usually follow the strategy of making others leave me alone.

Collapsed at toddlers 24/7.


Yes, I’d fit your theory too: I got fairly high, but not genius level, scores in the IQ test I was given in high school.

I’m also a pattern finder!
I also didn’t have language delay: I’ve always found words and sentences a fun game to play with.
I have a tendency to invent my own newfangled metaphors and then sit back thinking “hah: two can play at that game” when it confuses NTs :lol:
Petty and childish but there we go.



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06 Feb 2020, 9:46 am

I become a completely different person depending on who I'm mixing with. I don't like it.


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07 Feb 2020, 2:04 am

I had less meltdowns as I got older. I think I just became better able to tolerate stuff, plus I was better able to control my reactions, but it took a long, long time to get to that point. Then, once I was living alone, my meltdowns almost completely went away. It's being with people that is the main cause of my meltdowns, especially family, as we tend to get on each other's nerves a lot when we have to be together for a while. Once I was living alone, I found myself better able to handle being with my relatives during visits, because when the visits were over I could be alone again, and destress. A few years ago I read about B vitamins being good for stress and mood, and started taking those. I discovered that they really were helping me on a few occasions when I ran out of them, and started having emotional problems again. After getting and taking more B vits, I would quickly start to feel more stable, and I realized that before taking the B vits I had never felt so emotionally stable before. The B vits aren't a total fix, but they are a very big help, and I want to keep feeling this more stable way. Being too emotional feels awful. Feeling stable feels more like what normal should be, so the B vits are helping me to maintain a more balanced emotional state.

The B vits I take are B complex capsules. Tablet supplements aren't good, as they often don't dissolve enough on the way thru your intestines, and end up coming out the rear exit, instead of helping you. I generally just get the best buy, not any particular brand, just as long as it's a capsule or gel cap. I also look for higher doses per capsule.

I've been taking a little extra B complex the past couple of days, due to bad news from my stepmom. I live up north. My father and stepmother are snowbirds. They live up here near me in the warm months, and down in Florida in the winter. My father was already in declining health when they went down there this fall, and after a recent broken hip, his overall health got worse. He is now in hospice and not expected to last more than 2 weeks. I have health issues of my own, so I can't handle a trip down south. As soon as I finished the call from my stepmom about my father's condition, I took an extra B complex vitamin because I felt myself starting to destabilize. The extra supplement helped me to maintain my equilibrium. I'm still upset, but I'm handling it better.

I don't take psych meds. I was on some as a kid, and hated the side effects. They also didn't do anything to help me. Since they were causing problems without causing any benefits I eventually took myself off of them without telling any of the adults around me. I had emotional issues whether I was on or off the meds, but at least when I was off them, I didn't have to deal with the unpleasant side effects. I was prescribed psych meds a few times as an adult, but only tried one of them. It didn't help, so I didn't renew the med. The others failed my research test. I checked them out online before filling the prescriptions, and found out that they had nasty, and even dangerous side effects, so I chose not to take them. I'd rather put up with my emotional issues, than deal with nasty and dangerous meds. Fortunately, the B complex capsules don't cause me any problems, and they do actually help me, so I will stick with them.

For the past few years now, anytime a doc prescribes a med for me I research it before deciding whether or not to take it. If I don't like the risks associated with it I look for safer alternatives. So far I've almost always been able to find safe alternatives among health supplements--vitamins and herbs.


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07 Feb 2020, 12:11 pm

^ you raise a good point about the B vitamins Questor, I’ve taken eaten a couple of rounds of marmite on toast every time I’ve noticed myself fixating on something I find irritating after I heard it mentioned in the radio that B12 is important for serotonin production & regulation.



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07 Feb 2020, 2:13 pm

StarTrekker wrote:
I read a lot on Tumblr about self diagnosed autistics who mask their traits, apparently doing things like stifling stimming and meltdowns when they’re around other people. How do people do this? I can never control those kinds of things, they happen whether I like it or not.


Warning: might be triggering for some

I was shamed and bullied from a young age by family members & the public school system (in a post-communist country) whenever I behaved in my natural (=autistic) way i.e. stimming, being in my own peaceful world, being too curious/honest about things. I learnt to do them in secret/in my head, and completely 'split' myself to a public and private self.

Due to this I was first diagnosed with depression at age of 12, also the time when I first tried to kill myself. This was followed by episodes of being in the hospital, suicide attempts etc. until I managed to un-learn some of the masking in my late twenties when things got slightly better. I am still able to mask successfully, and it is needed for my work (without masking even less autistic people would have a job I think), but if I could choose I'd rather have more meltdowns (although the ones I have are not fun in any way) than thoughts of seriously harming/killing myself because very often I feel like I am a 'fake'.


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07 Feb 2020, 2:51 pm

9BillionNamesofGod wrote:
StarTrekker wrote:
I read a lot on Tumblr about self diagnosed autistics who mask their traits, apparently doing things like stifling stimming and meltdowns when they’re around other people. How do people do this? I can never control those kinds of things, they happen whether I like it or not.


Warning: might be triggering for some

I was shamed and bullied from a young age by family members & the public school system (in a post-communist country) whenever I behaved in my natural (=autistic) way i.e. stimming, being in my own peaceful world, being too curious/honest about things. I learnt to do them in secret/in my head, and completely 'split' myself to a public and private self.

Due to this I was first diagnosed with depression at age of 12, also the time when I first tried to kill myself. This was followed by episodes of being in the hospital, suicide attempts etc. until I managed to un-learn some of the masking in my late twenties when things got slightly better. I am still able to mask successfully, and it is needed for my work (without masking even less autistic people would have a job I think), but if I could choose I'd rather have more meltdowns (although the ones I have are not fun in any way) than thoughts of seriously harming/killing myself because very often I feel like I am a 'fake'.


On the one hand one feels fake. With me I feel "If only they know the real me". But when I have hit burnout and I end up fragile so I lose the ability to keep masking efficiently, I feel vunerable and exposed... It feels to me like I am walking around in public without any clothes on!


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07 Feb 2020, 3:14 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
9BillionNamesofGod wrote:
StarTrekker wrote:
I read a lot on Tumblr about self diagnosed autistics who mask their traits, apparently doing things like stifling stimming and meltdowns when they’re around other people. How do people do this? I can never control those kinds of things, they happen whether I like it or not.


Warning: might be triggering for some

I was shamed and bullied from a young age by family members & the public school system (in a post-communist country) whenever I behaved in my natural (=autistic) way i.e. stimming, being in my own peaceful world, being too curious/honest about things. I learnt to do them in secret/in my head, and completely 'split' myself to a public and private self.

Due to this I was first diagnosed with depression at age of 12, also the time when I first tried to kill myself. This was followed by episodes of being in the hospital, suicide attempts etc. until I managed to un-learn some of the masking in my late twenties when things got slightly better. I am still able to mask successfully, and it is needed for my work (without masking even less autistic people would have a job I think), but if I could choose I'd rather have more meltdowns (although the ones I have are not fun in any way) than thoughts of seriously harming/killing myself because very often I feel like I am a 'fake'.


On the one hand one feels fake. With me I feel "If only they know the real me". But when I have hit burnout and I end up fragile so I lose the ability to keep masking efficiently, I feel vunerable and exposed... It feels to me like I am walking around in public without any clothes on!


True - being my real self in the outside world comes with an unbearable sense of vulnerability for me too. However, I was lucky enough to meet a few people around whom I feel I can be myself without masking or feeling too exposed. Most of them are autistic of course.

Sometimes I am grateful for the ability to mask - as I said, at least I can have a job and relative independence. But other days I don't think it is worth the price. Either way, it is not something I consciously chose, it was imposed on me by circumstances and a subconsious survival instinct. Something in me must really want to live I think.


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08 Feb 2020, 2:50 pm

KT67 wrote:
I become a completely different person depending on who I'm mixing with. I don't like it.



Same here.. I noticed I did that since grade school and its not something I like either. Getting into 'character' to interact is so completely draining, especially now that I'm older. Can barely do it anymore.



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09 Feb 2020, 12:14 am

I have not really had meltdowns since I was 13, (I don't get sensory overload, I have the opposite problem) and I have never had the very noticeable stimming tendencies. When I was 18 and went to college, I started really trying to learn how to interact, because I really wanted to make friends with my new classmates. I watched them for months, and then started interacting, and as time went on I did it more and more, and I had learned enough that it worked pretty well and I made friends. When I started working, I had to learn new things because work is different from school, and that took a long time and my coworkers thought I was rude until I figured it out. It's mostly just a lot of formulae about what kinds of things you can say (and how your attitude should be) to different kinds of people (classmates, coworkers, superiors, customers, etc) in different situations. That's what masking is, for me. And just... always being hyper-conscious of everything I'm doing, so a weird stim won't even be able to start. I don't think of it like hiding myself though, (I don't pretend to be someone I'm not) I think of it more like speaking a language. I speak NT-language when I'm in public. When I'm around my friends, (who are mostly those friends I made in college!) I only have to speak it well enough so that they understand me. I don't have to speak it so well they think I'm not weird, because they already know that I am.


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09 Feb 2020, 5:22 am

I wonder whether saying you mask as a non diagnosed person is a way ,for some , of 'legitimising' the belief you're on the spectrum .

It seems there's an increasing number of people , who are self diagnosing/self identifying , who are queueing up to say that masking well is why it appears they're not on the spectrum .



magz
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09 Feb 2020, 5:31 am

firemonkey wrote:
I wonder whether saying you mask as a non diagnosed person is a way ,for some , of 'legitimising' the belief you're on the spectrum .

It seems there's an increasing number of people , who are self diagnosing/self identifying , who are queueing up to say that masking well is why it appears they're not on the spectrum .

Are you implying they are wrong?


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09 Feb 2020, 5:34 am

Firemonkey, I think in adults it could be due to the fact that ASD awareness was virtually non existent until perhaps 20 years ago.



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09 Feb 2020, 5:40 am

For a few months at the beginning the therapist I see for CPTSD doubted that I was on the spectrum, we discussed it openly. That's changed by now, but it was hard for him to fathom the masking side of things, until I think I explained it/likened it to being a closeted gay surrounded by ignorant and bigoted people.

My point is that masking my differences and struggles was and still is to a lesser extent the only way to protect myself. The motivation is real.



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09 Feb 2020, 5:51 am

magz wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I wonder whether saying you mask as a non diagnosed person is a way ,for some , of 'legitimising' the belief you're on the spectrum .

It seems there's an increasing number of people , who are self diagnosing/self identifying , who are queueing up to say that masking well is why it appears they're not on the spectrum .

Are you implying they are wrong?


I just think its something that's seen as being essential to explain why a person has flown under the radar when it comes to it being recognised that they're on the spectrum .



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