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Aimless
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07 Apr 2010, 7:15 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Please read this thread

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt122756.html

"Executive dysfunction" is a buzz word that get thrown around, there is a difference between ED like situations and clinical cognitive dysfunctions.

Dyspraxia/Dyslexia might get mixed up with ED mainly when limited or only specific testing is done. Like if someone thinks they have X they only test for x and not y, they meet the criteria for x even through what they have really got is y. happened to me. 80s and 90s dyslexia was the in thing.

ED cuts across multiple areas, specific leaning difficulties are focused on specific processing.


I know it's a handy term for a lot of specific deficits, but how do they test for clinical ED? Also, there have been many threads on executive dysfunction (I've started a few myself) but no one has commented on my original question, which is how (let's say) cognitive difficulties affect your employability? I think many of us are familiar with feeling really smart in some ways but really dumb in some other more pragmatic areas and I'm curious about how this affects your ability to work or to job's level of difficulty.



0_equals_true
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07 Apr 2010, 7:46 pm

It f***s up your employability and also other plans and ambitions that you might have, and that is not great when it is not easily apparent. It is a lot of work to get things done, it is constant derailment throughout your day, not simply being a bit hazy.

I'm not one to give up though. However I don't really want to get into a detailed discussion about my cognitive dysfunction right now, but suffice to say the "executive" concept is still theoretical and usually when you have ED it will be a part of you own unique cognitive problems.

People I seen have been interested only in they own agenda not problem solving. One thing they have been obsessed with is the memory side of things, even though that is the area that is the most ambiguous with me. They completely ignored detailed account of my other cognitive problem, which may actually shed some light on the memory thing also.

I finally going to someone who I have reason to believe is willing to look into my problem specifically (my GP is extremely frank with me so I have little reason to doubt her). Having looked this person up, and the research background there is a chance that she will use her initiative and actually try to help (which hasn’t been attempted by any of the professionals I’ve seen so far), however I will reserve judgment, as I have encountered many so called expert in my time.

Testing for ED, is part an parcel of the standard aptitude test that nueropsychologists do. I is a test that last at least 4 hours and tests various cognitive capabilities.

What I do in the mean time is safeguard my mental health, as best I can.



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07 Apr 2010, 8:46 pm

its possible that some autistics might have a few of the traits, yet one thing that convinces me that asd does not entail dysfunction across the board is that many people with asd are creative and say insightful things, while someone with severe frontal lobe damage, is not creative, because of reliance on rote behaviors and previously learned knowledge. i think this is worse than simply the disorganization that some people with asd have.



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07 Apr 2010, 9:12 pm

Callista wrote:
Executive dysfunction isn't a diagnosis by itself; it's a symptom of other diagnoses. For example: Schizophrenia, Alzheimer's and other dementias, depression, ADHD, TBIs (especially to the frontal lobe), and yes, autism.

It basically means you suck at planning and carrying out plans. Many people compensate by making lists, schedules, reminders, etc.; others have people around to remind them to do things. It can include impulsivity (acting without planning), or it can include simply not being able to get started doing something, or being very slow and disorganized at it (such as the psychomotor retardation in schizophrenia and depression). It can include being very inefficient, being unable to regulate one's own attention (trademark ADHD), or being unable to transition from one activity to another (autism and ADHD both include this problem).

It's a known problem, and there are many ways to work around it. I think that most people with autism have some form of executive dysfunction, though it can easily be mild enough that no particular attention has to be paid to it since the effort level required to compensate is not unrealistically high.


OK, so Yeah I definitely have it to a degree, but I have always compensated with lists, appointment reminders, notes, and, my favorite, spreadsheets (ahhhhh angelic music and golden light)!



Aimless
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07 Apr 2010, 9:16 pm

Now all you have to do is remember where you put that damned list. :)



0_equals_true
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08 Apr 2010, 2:05 am

petitesouris wrote:
its possible that some autistics might have a few of the traits, yet one thing that convinces me that asd does not entail dysfunction across the board is that many people with asd are creative and say insightful things, while someone with severe frontal lobe damage, is not creative, because of on rote behaviors and previously learned knowledge. i think this is worse than simply the disorganization that some people with asd have.

Not really making sense there. if you have anterograde amnesia or other memory problems, it is really difficult to make learning stick.

You don't need to have severe frontal lobe damage to have ED, of course brain injury is going to produce volatile result (on the other hand much of neurology is based on accounts of brain injury). If you have any dysfunction in the "executive" pulling together and control of processes then it is going to affect multiple areas, but not necessary all.

it is reasonable to theorise that thins like ASD and savantism are deviation from typical physiology of executive functions, and therefore could be regarded as ED, however clinical ED is actually when there is a large discrepancy between the measured capacity in multiple areas (where there reasons for this happening cannot be separated) and other areas. If everything is low, it is very difficult to conclude anything or even test. Simulary due to nueroplacidy ASD may not present as ED.

But I agree it is a challenging question. I happen to think that ED as a concept has some problem with it, especially in light of the overall cognitive presentation of patients.



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08 Apr 2010, 4:34 am

Aimless wrote:
Now all you have to do is remember where you put that damned list. :)


QFT

I don't use diaries for the very reason I forget I even wrote in them anyway.


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08 Apr 2010, 4:53 am

MONKEY wrote:
Aimless wrote:
Now all you have to do is remember where you put that damned list. :)


QFT

I don't use diaries for the very reason I forget I even wrote in them anyway.

One word: notice board. OK that's two but it's one object and without it my life would be in chaos.
I find that I only write in my diary if my thoughts are just so intense that I need to write them down. I always have the things I need in the same spot - my big ugly computer desk.


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isnessofwhatis
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08 Apr 2010, 9:41 pm

I have a lot of problems with this too. I have a person who comes over every week to help me with stuff like this. Last week she helped me make up a master list of things I need to do before I move on the 1st. I get REALLY frustrated when unpacking my stuff after a move (I've never been able to fully unpack) because I get stuck then end up quiting and shoving the boxes in a corner or a closet. I'm really hoping she can help me get fully unpacked and make my new place a comfortable home.

I was telling my therapist today that I'm really starting to see the benefits of having this person come over every week. I'm getting more organized in a way that makes sense to me and am starting to be able to basic household tasks without having to really think about it much.



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20 Apr 2010, 7:46 am

This is on a par with my social problems my most severe problem ever. I have severe problems with planning and organising (though if I have to, being forced by the situation I am in, I am really good at it, much better than an average person). It's just like in the case of food poisoning, when you are suffering from it, you have problems with forcing yourself to eat, you just find this experience utterly unpleasant and the same is about this.

Generally I can't describe how much time some activity is going to take me. And this is almost as if some mad scientist experimented on my brain, destroying those centers of it which are responsible for understanding the corelation between cause and effect. Of course I know that taking some steps towards something or desisting from them can result in long lasting (in more extreme cases, the whole life of mine lasting) negative consequences, making my life assume some shape I wouldn't ever wish for but even armed with this sad knowledge I may easily resign from doing this. I just passively observe the course of action.

Every time I get down to something, regardless of what it is - removing the hair from those places of my body which definitively don't need it, doing homework, cleaning my room, clipping and painting my nails, eradicating some bad habit or tic I developed, whatever - I promise it to myself that I'll start doing it in some time - in 5 minutes, in an hour, this evening, since New Years day, since the birthday of mine and so on - fully aware that when the time comes, the situation is going to repeat until finally, when there's very little time left, I'm forced to do it in a hysterical hurry to manage to do it on time.



Last edited by Irulan on 20 Apr 2010, 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Apr 2010, 8:00 am

I've never seen executive functioning issues listed in and of themselves as a specific disorder, but I see them on lots of IEPs with autistic students. Organization is such a personal thing to us and has to work in such a specific way for us to get it, that it does at times seem that there is no way around it. I've learned to use all the the little bits of technology as my friend and rely on people that I know are trustworthy for other things.
Executive functioning issues definitely impact my working life. I've lost lots of jobs because of my inability to find a filing system that works for me. I've been sitting stagnantly in others trying to get something to click, as well. Unfortuneately, so many jobs are turning into very self-motivated jobs where you have too much to do and your supervisor has too much to do, so no one notices that there's a problem until the ball gets dropped. This also translates into being blamed on us because our executive dysfunction is easy to point out.


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20 Apr 2010, 8:04 am

Another aspie with executive dysfunction here! :)