narcissism, asperger's, self-absoption and self-importance

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i think i understand the main discrepancies between AS and NPD, the most important of which is obliviousness of one's self-absorption vs. the acceptance (albiet lack of understanding, i would guess) of it, respectively. or maybe the difference is plain self-absorption (AS) vs. self-absorption AND self-importance in a grandiose sort of way (NPD). either case is going to be translated as selfishness to the external world, since people generally don't bother to understand the mechanisms of the human mind--"selfishness is selfishness, and that's bad," and that's all they think they know.

but actually, i'm no exception, i think selfishness is bad. that's a very vague statement, i know; but while i'm comfortably oblivious in this world that revolves around me, part of me wants to destroy that trait which appears ugly. oh, but in order to do that, i have to become so self-absorbed that i am constantly thinking about what aspects of myself mean what, and how to change them, which encourages the self-absorption because i often feel like the reason i have put myself in hyper self-discovery mode is for the game, the mental masturbation, rather than the result. HOWEVER, it's still an attempt to stray from misguided self-importance, even if i'll probably be self-absorbed forever.

(i just wonder sometimes if i have NPD, since i experience traits that are usually the dividers between it and AS. but i definitely experience traits of AS that are also not present in NPD. i was diagnosed with asperger's, though.)

so, questions: what is your opinion on the difference between AS and NPD? as for the self-absorption present in AS, how do you experience it? to what degree? do you accept it or do you want to change it? why? and lastly, what IS selfishness anyway?

The difference is AS encompasses much more than narcissism... and generally the "selfishness" in AS individuals is not selfishness but obliviousness or inability to properly respond to other's needs and emotions.

I don't think the two are exclusive.

right, but i still think there's a difference between selfishness and self-absorption. the two can coexist in and individual, for sure, but i generally believe that selfishness is a simple and easily defined concept to make up for a lack of understanding a more intricate issue. the result of self-absorption can be what others believe to be selfishness, but i want to define self-absorption as purely an obsession with one's own identity. selfishness has this... connotation of conscious manipulation, which i don't think is the case with AS but is the case with NPD.

you're right though, we can't assume that any diagnosis is exclusive i guess. we'll be stuffing ourselves into pigeonholes and ignoring important nuances that make up a grayscale we don't believe to exist because of the intended function of the DSM to label for ease of comprehension, which influences doctors, who influence us. or something.

I think AS needs a cause other than one's own existence: I overcame my fears, I'm godlike on this particular knowledge, the society sucks etc...

I think there is no problem in that, the only risk is that you lock into a comfortable system of self-assessment. If you are not isolated in society, you will meet people that challenge your perceptions of the world and of yourself. You perception will tune naturally by adjusting your biased statements.
You will discover that everybody has qualities and flaws (the realization of both will be important in the other) and you are no exception (you'll still think you have some very special qualities though)

You should not get rid of it without a good reason. Reason is what will do the tuning of your self-esteem, and it will give some perspective to improve other things. Explore the world and challenge yourself, with time you will get to know the differences between selfishness and pride.

>I think there is no problem in that, the only risk is that you lock into a comfortable system of self-assessment. If you are not isolated in society, you will meet people that challenge your perceptions of the world and of yourself. You perception will tune naturally by adjusting your biased statements.

this has already started to happen. up until may i was almost entirely socially isolated without any real drive to embrace my personal set of values and an identity. then things happened and i am a little more involved with the world,but i'm also a lot more motivated to find integrity in a belief system that comes genuinely from within myself. since that belief system is a bit obscure and unconventional i have not encountered a single person who i can agree with about the things that are most important to me. i can sense the danger in this, and struggle to make the decision between embracing my eccentricities and using them as a weapon against the rest of the world or destroying my obsession with the romantic ideal of being "truly human yet alone" in order to meet the need of... having human contact.

and yeah, i crave flaw-discovery and the realization of contradictions in myself. what i hate most of all is being unaware of an existing quality in myself that i normally wouldn't like, so it's reassuring to discover biased things so i CAN change.

>You should not get rid of it without a good reason.

what also plagues me is the question of whether i am ACTUALLY passionate about being a sound and genuine person, or if this is just some game i play with myself. do i have a good reason? i'm not sure.

First, I want to say that the ad with the kid jumping up and down is really irritating and I will scroll down, missing messages, or click away from the page to escape this intrusion.

On topic, I used to tell people my apparent self-absorption was necessary to my well-being. I liken my daily struggle with life as balancing on a tightrope. I had to keep my eyes on my feet, lest I slip and fall.

Over the decades, I developed some balance and this isn't as noticeable a social problem as it once was for me, but my condition still renders me to this day highly non-observant of what goes on around me.

If I try to look, I see everything, and become confused. I run into things.

It's understandable if those around me see me as inwardly focused.

dp

this really resonates... it's an interesting realization.

Well, there is something I call the WTF!? syndrome, it can be resumed like this: one evening, I come with a bright idea that connects all the dots at once, I rush on my keyboard and I discover that my idea was in fact written somewhere 2300 years ago (generally in a better way, but still different). So after many occurrences, I decided it would be a rule and I would never be caught off-guard again (I've spared you a few years of thinking in your life, you owe me one).
I knew I was different, I thought I was unique. Then I discovered Asperger's, and guess what? Thousands of people that function the way I do, teens and grandmas chatting since ages on a forum without me having a clue about it... WTF!?
But yet it did not scatter my basic assumptions and dig further into what makes me and someone in general, unique. So in my opinion, whatever are your beliefs, somewhere, somehow, with different words it is already written. Find it, and adapt, because something is true in what you think. After all these years, I'm still the same me, but sharper.

Now about exploring the world, get the basic aesthetic changes, because if you want to change the world you'll have to do it from within (there are lots of tales of lone guys who wanted to challenge the world, best case: they have been heard but misunderstood with ugly consequences). So, Know the rules, Set some goals, Be Open.


Contradictions are what should put your curiosity in motion, what will make you more precise and correct.


That's the Aspie need for coherence. You must put logic and coherence above all, it is not easy because it require to improve awareness and that is not taught in a manual. In a moment of your life, if your belief is somehow proved wrong, it will never be proved totally wrong by logic, and the journey of your research might lead you in the most remote and unexpected place. The journey alone is worth it.

When unexpected things and ideas are popping around you, it means you are skipping a whole (or more) dimension in your reasoning. Draw some axis, find what is common, find how it is different. Then turn it into a question. Find if that question is asked and responded to in a completely different field.

Asking the right question is the most important thing.

Because I appear self absorbed to an NT does not make it so, nor is an NT that shows no outward signs of self absorption free of the trait My thoughts are not ME ME ME.even if I appear to be wrapped up in my own little world.

A narcissist craves validation and engages in attention seeking behavior. An aspie is no better at presenting themselves via their speech and mannerisms than they.are at reading these things in others. I think the behaviors of a narcissist accurately reflect their inner self. The behaviors of an aspie are often failed attempts to reveal that inner self to others.

Your overall thoughts and ponderings quickly inspire a self-aware smile ... ... and maybe even a wink ... ... and there is where I think I sometimes tend to go a bit far and into a "self-inflated" feeling or sense of importance. I know what I know or do not know, and I know the related *potential* of that knowledge, wisdom, experience or whatever else. However, and here is the hard part:

It is not for me to ever decide any outcome and/or to force it to take place. So ...

I see selfish as wanting material "things" for myself even if/when at the expenses (losses or unwilling sacrifices) of others, and I see self-centeredness in about the same way concerning the ambitions/efforts/actions of others. But to become and to remain right-sized among our fellow human beings, I must renounce any and every thought or feeling of superiority even if/when my own knowledge or its related potential might actually be.

i am on the spectrum and i have become more self centered over the years to the point where i cannot stop thinking about myself and every slight or bad vibe i pick from ohter people makes me feel annoyed inside. I don't know if that is a bit schizio type of behaviour though?

My premise is that everyone is self absorbed, some just mask it better than others. The person who serves others does it for selfish reasons, ie: for praise, money, recognition, reputation. The ones who disguise their narcissism well are the ones who escape the label narcissist while the rest of us are called out because of our honesty or genuiness.
I accept my self absorption and realize it's part of having an ego, being a human being. It's a part of me just as it is everyone and I don't want to change it because I wouldn't be able to preserve my existence without it. If it's so bad, why do people demand payment for the work they do? Why not just do everything for free, since self interest is such a sin?
Most people are not willing to work for free and they can come up with a million self absorbed reasons why not: food, shelter, clothing, belongings are at the top of the list. Those are all things they need to have a quality existence. When it comes right down to it, it's all about them, isn't it?

How ironic to give such vague, multi defined diagnostic characteristic to Asperger's, a group that by definition, don't do well with vague definitions.

Well, a bit of humility does have to factor-in somewhere, eh?!