Autism in France: Psychoanalysis, Packing, Other Travesties

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Just realized that you were describing anomie too in your earlier post Though it is formed by differences between self and current society, not misunderstanding.
Yes, I agree, as the idiom goes we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Though packing might reflect more on the view of autism in France, than on all psychoanalysis.
Concerning the commentary - people can either edit for both good and bad reasons. Either to clarify, and then if the result wasn't true to their intention then they failed to communicate it properly, or they are lying because it makes them look bad. Or it can be edited for entertainment or more nefarious purposes, which is common in media.

Yes, everybody, according to the circumstances that come up, is always editing, and different people have different ideas about what is good or bad. So people make these little worlds and enclose themselves into them, and this is a form of encapsulation that I would say is in some way akin to autism. In short there needs to be some kind of model that does not create large discrepancies, and then no one will feel cut off or end up being suicidal. Does this make sense? And it all comes back to brain function and the integration of one large bite (a combination of sets into an integral frame) with individual smaller pieces of information. I am not good at this kind of language, so I hope you will be able to the gist.

Re the French culture and how this all relates to 'post' industrial revolution concept of anomie, this is kind of an esoteric topic which I could really get into, though I do not know if anyone but you would be interested....maybe some psycho analysts.who are probably following this thread:-)...I think it would be good if the discussion could be integrated into the development of an approach which is mentally transformational. French could be those guys in France who are practicing packing and other travesties, or it could also mean us. Similarly packing could mean what those guys are doing in France, but it could also mean what we are doing in relationships because it is convenient and/or because we do not understand, the key point here being that in terms of sorting and grading it can become quite difficult when one thing means two things, and yet this is how the world works in terms of making representations, as at the switch point, one 'thing' can and generally does represent two different and distinct things, and/or even kind of conduct in both directions, which leads us back to the theory of object relations.....

Some news from France : in early May (at last), the French minister for the disabled and struggle against exclusion, Marie-Arlette Carlotti, presented a new plan for autism. Not surprisingly when one knows about politics, it's far from perfect and still clearly insufficient (only 205 millions of euros, for instance, and it has a slow start), but it stands for early diagnosis, behavioral methods, new knowledge, research and findings.

Because the minister also said that only "methods that work" should be given credits, the plan attracted the ire of psychoanalysts from all over the country, who now ask for its removal, write to the President, and so on. They think the methods are too commercial in nature, not scientific enough, and they are against the Health Authority (who they think works for the State and commercial interests). And they argue for a "plurality of approaches", yet in practice favor mainly psychoanalytical/psychodynamic methods or the status quo. They also consider autistic people to be ill, mad or suffering.

It's very strange, a little paradoxical. I don't really understand their logic.

Thanks for posting this..Do not have much time now, but here is something to perhaps chew on. To you or anyone, including myself-- because there is rather oddly so little on the internet regarding their point of view, at least in the English language,---how important is it to understand the logic behind it? Would I make a dedicated focus out of a passion to try to understand? How could doing this help me in my own life? Will it help people who are autistic? How interesting is this question to me? If my time is very limited, would I give up watching my favorite tv show (or whatever:-) to do an in depth search on the internet regarding this subject in order to try to understand?

To me, it does not apply to fictional things. But I like when people whom I talk to express consistent thoughts and ideas. It's clearly not the case here.

So in a way, trying to understand their logic is not that important, and making it a dedicated focus would be a waste of time (especially if they're of the "Lacanian" brand - Lacanian thought is weird and disturbing enough for French NTs, but can be downright incomprehensible or even insulting for non-French Aspies, since it's partly based on French language puns and a whole lot of non-rigorous metaphors). It won't help you in your own life, nor help people who are autistic.

Hi Anty. Thanks for your very articulate response which I much appreciate. You may not want to get involved dialoging with me as in some sense we are from two different worlds....first I see that you are 22, soon to be 23, so your mind is still probably very alive and fresh...whereas I am an older person over seventy and I have been fresh-minded, then eventually in many ways cut off and jaded, and now much more sensitive and unjaded. In any case, the way I use language and have with conscious effort deliberately learned to use speech is that many things I am speaking of do not only refer to one thing alone, but there may also be another level of communication where one thing also means something else.

I would like to once more make it clear that for many reasons I am basically anti-therapy, and this includes the use of psychology in the United States, but, as I have written, I think in some circumstances, with the right person,therapy could be quite helpful (but how to find the right person???), and also I do not believe it is productive to throw the baby (meaning all of the ideas of psychology) out with the bathwater (the bathwater being the cultish, highly subjective, presumptuous, money-grubbing, authoritarian and elitist practice which exists all over the world and not just in France, so I think this kind of travesty is universal, and not just in psycho (whacko) therapy, as it starts in the thinking of human beings.

Secondly, I am no fan of the work of Lacan or even of Freudian psychology, which is kind of based on energy flow and exchange (drive theory), but am more interested in object relations theory in respect to how material ends up being framed based on both genetics and environment and how it can possibly be reframed so as to lead to great mental clarity by an understanding of the subject-object relationship, the subject being oneself (meaning ones mind, ones thinking and one sense of self) and the object being whatever is being looked at, so the object of knowledge, and the subsequent integration into intelligent individuality as expressed by an action.

Now people have done something regarding packing in France.. They have to some degree stopped a travesty, and that is good, but there is always a travesty and sometimes ones own thinking can be interconnected with travesty in general, and understanding how this works can not only change ones mind but can also be world changing, so I think it is possible for the participation on this thread to provide a different dimension that is generative of a greater intelligence and also compassion.

Thirdly, and this may be a little bit of a difficult topic--regarding French culture, I do not speak French and have never been to France, but who is to say exactly how the understanding of a particular culture originates? A person can be from a certain culture and deeply immersed in it, and perhaps not really understand how it works but rather be just flowing with it, so, yes, understanding it on that level, but there is no contrast, so the view is still from one side. When some French consider the culture of the United States degenerative (my word), is there a rationale behind this that makes any kind of sense? Though you may not want to know, I do want to know, and sometimes an understanding is not complete until it is shared with someone else, so spoken....

This is just an introduction to the response I would like to give to your message and will if I can find the time. I realize you may not find it productive to communicate with me, but if you do write back it would be a pleasure. I am basically in accordance with the point of view you have presented, but for me there is possibly another dimension that may be worthwhile to explore..

Here's a petition (in French) to support the current French plan for autism against the attacks of psychoanalysts : https://www.change.org/fr/p%C3%A9tition ... an-autisme

According to articles the documentary was to premier in late 2012.


WHERE IS IT NOW[b][u]

release date has been delayed. we're still in post production.

I was wondering what was going on.

We are turning mad on Asperger Aide France.

I can cope very well, and we believe in both our strengh, honour but also in our superiority..

We need reality, people.

Last edited by sternie on 10 Nov 2013, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Come and do the Nuremberg, we agree to be banned and sentenced to death.

what does it mean ? I don't understand...

What are the results, in the "patients," of the French "treatment"? How do they appear to compare with people from the USA who have the same differences?

French society and politics are very corrupt. I don t trust France for many reasons. I don t think autists are safe in France. Recently many have been hospitalized of whom i know. I hope they are treated well, sometimes new psychiatrist denies then previous autism diagnosis as they are all just fat and stupid old c***s, and as someone knows what autists are. Other don t answer anymore, phonenumber are not known and reasons for silence unknown. Nevertheless silence unusual and in recent past tendency on autist network to doubt of the reality of freedom of speech and freedom in France.

French society and politics are very corrupt. I don t trust France for many reasons. I don t think autists are safe in France. Recently many have been hospitalized of whom i know. I hope they are treated well, sometimes new psychiatrist denies then previous autism diagnosis as they are all just fat and stupid old c***s, and as someone knows what autists are. Other don t answer anymore, phonenumber are not known and reasons for silence unknown. Nevertheless silence unusual and in recent past tendency on autist network to doubt of the reality of freedom of speech and freedom in France.