The site where they BASH Aspie husband and wives. :O

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BS. Those posts did not say "my husband is a ****", or "I'm pissed off at my husband" or "my husband treats me poorly". They said "aspies are ****", and to avoid aspies and "stay free". Whenever anyone attacks an entire group, they rightfully get the response from that group.

Adamantium said it so well when he wrote:


Very well said, Adamantium! That's exactly where the problem lies.

I was wrong when I lost my temper and blasted you in that one thread. I had read the OP's first post in that thread when I first replied but I didn't read everything. You don't have to accept my my apology but I'm sorry.



Based on what I've seen you post about that, I don't think your husband is any happier than you are. Please don't attribute your husband having emotional affairs to AS, he probably does have it, but that's not reason why he did it. Also, just because we have AS, it doesn't mean that we would not see anything wrong with that.

@starkid

Yes, looking back there's a lot that I can see in hindsight. I married my husband when autism was little more than 'RainMan' in popular conception. I remember sitting opposite him on a train and thinking "is he autistic? No, can't be.." because I though all autism was non-verbal, low-verbal, etc with the occasional Temple Grandin. I didn't know. Yes, there were other things wrong, too. But I dismissed them. In the bonding phase of a romance, we tend to overlook things that we would otherwise take into account. Hormones and emotions surge - and it's impossible to be dispassionate. Many, many people ignore red flags during this stage.

I blamed myself for choosing poorly for a long time. But that's not a helpful path either. There were reasons why I chose that relationship that suited me at the time and other things that were different about our relationship at that point that aren't there now.

Being the 'special interest' of someone is an intensely flattering experience as well. And I was at a time in my life where I was perhaps a bit more susceptible to that. I also, because of family issues, tend to accept the unacceptable in relationships. That's my problem. I'm working to address it.

Not only that, but people do change. In the case of my marriage, the turning point really came when we had a child. He didn't cope well with the stress of it at a time when I needed him to really be there for me. His behaviour toward me changed quite dramatically.

@Jono - thanks and I do appreciate and accept the apology.

I do not blame the emotional affair on AS. Lots of people have emotional affairs and physical affairs who don't have AS, I should know! But there were ways that his AS affected the progress of the emotional affair - I think someone a bit more socially savvy would have recognised it earlier and frankly would have taken more (any!) steps to hide it!

Look, unless your spouse refers you there, LEAVE THEM ALONE.

Women complain about men. I would hate to be a guy in attendance at "Ladies' Night."

Men complain about women. There's a reason why women stay out of "The Man Cave" when there are half a dozen guys in there smoking cigars, drinking beer, and looking at HotChick duJour in her underpants.

Aspies complain about NT behavior. I would really hate to be a neurotypical reading some of the threads here.

Why do all of these things happen?? Because people are different, and NOBODY actually has that great a theory of any mind that is not largely similar to their own, and people get frustrated.

People can be rigid, and selfish, and uncaring, and mean. There's no reason to assume that Aspies are immune to that behavior, just because the literature has been a bit liberal with the tar and feathers. Just because it's not as bad as they say in every case is not a justification to assume it doesn't exist.

People, especially in defense of their own ego, can also be vicious.

So, you know, LEAVE THEM ALONE. Let them have their space. Stop borrowing troubles from ASPartners.

Aspergers and autism does not directly cause people to become bad or damaged goods that need to be avoided at all costs. With the proper support and acceptance, autism can be a good thing. Healthy relationships require compromise of some sort and everyone has hardships in life to overcome. Socializing may be more intuitive for some NT's while complex pattern recognition may be more intuitive for some autists. We can all learn from each other to grow and expand.

The people over at delphi forums are welcome to express bigoted ideas and bad advice, just as we are allowed to express ourselves and call them out when some of them make sweeping generalizations about an entire group of diverse people. Not everything I've read over there is necessarily bad advice or bigoted ideas. Sometimes people need an outlet to share and express their frustrations. It's not healthy to keep that stuff bottled up and an anonymous forum could be good for venting. When that devolves into bigotry and bad advice, someone needs to stand up and point it out.

Thanks for reading!

Last edited by blueblahbleh on 06 Oct 2014, 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

If you apologize me jumping in here, THIS is the main reason why I never pursued a girlfriend throughout most of my 20s. I played a lot of hockey and let's just say what's said in the dressing room stays in the dressing room. Older guys who were married had some downright nasty things to say about women, especially their wives. I took it as a sign (being a literal minded Aspie) that women were universally poison. Years later I asked many of the guys what they REALLY thought of their wives and was shocked to hear how much they loved and cherished them. I now realize they were just letting their hair down and safely venting their relatively minor frustrations and annoyances amongst their fellow men.


I always used to get mad when my brother complained about his then GF (now Wife) but still married her even though he was expressing doubts days before the wedding and he could do FAR better. I also shook my head at all the "stupid" people who couldn't see the obvious and landed in similar situations.

Not to brag, but I am a pretty decent catch and have the height and the good job to go with it. Married mothers and grandmothers tell me what a "dream husband and father" I am even though it doesn't translate into success being an oblivious Aspie. However, I ended up with a Borderline Personality Disordered Girlfriend who had the maturity of a young teenager, had no job (still doesn't) and a highly unstable work history, had less friends than most Aspie guys, failed University or College 4 times (now up to 6), physically and emotionally abused me, almost led to me getting arrested due to one of her many wild (almost daily) tantrums, screamed and yelled at me all night long many work nights and as a result I would shake uncontrollably around her as my nerves were so shot and eventually needed medication to cope (and ended up in the ER twice due to mental issues). I felt like a prisoner in my own home and she never let me hear the end of how greedy I was to ask for $200 a month compensation for all the drives I gave her (yes, no license in a city where 99% of able bodied adults have one) and space in my apartment. I look back and think loudly "WHAT THE #$^@ WAS I THINKING?" Answer: because of my childhood trauma due to intense bullying and exclusion, I become a people pleaser and had a very low sense of self esteem and self worth and was instinctively attracted to someone as wounded as I was. Most healthy guys would have ran the other way after they saw her Facebook page for example but I was going to be the "hero" and save her. BIG MISTAKE especially if she doesn't think or want to be saved.

I always laughed at unmarried guys without children complaining about relationships and would tell them "just break it off you moron" until I almost got engaged to this girl. It took me six attempts to finally break free from her and as unbelievable as it sounds, I STILL tried to give her two more chances after that because the loneliness got to me. Best not to judge until you have been in someone's shoes!

Besides, they tend to generalize way too much: People with AS, they are / do / can't such and such and this or that etc. Not very objective or based on science, really.

Edit: OK, it's not a science page, I know. It's meant as an outlet for emotions. But I mean, some people may not be aware that it's not the best place to get objective information about the condition and may be misled by the generalizations.
If that makes sense.

People will assume that since they claim to be a support forum, they will provide information about Asperger's. I've actually seen a number of people posting in there just get information and those harpies respond by bashing all aspies and say nothing of value except that aspies are not worth having a relationship with. Take a look at this recent thread for example:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages

Thankfully, "crazylady61" has not replied further to that thread or has even made any further posts in that forum. Perhaps she has realised that she's not going to get anything helpful from that forum.

The other posters don't tell her directly that she should let him go completely, or do I miss something?

I don't see any "crazylady61" posting in that thread, don't remember one of that nickname.

It's linking to the wrong thread. The thread I wanted to link to was the one entitled "any chance of this working" and "crazylady61" is the original author. Look for it on the sidebar in the section "Public Discussions". Yes, just about all the posters in that thread told her to give up on him completely. Here's the correct link:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13366.1

Just a sample of quotes from the thread that I'm talking about:

The use of the word "worth" speaks volumes about the NT mentality.
It boils down to the fact that the NTs did not enter the relationship for the sake of love, or in just having the relationship. They had notions of some other resources such as materials, social status, or a perpetual means to boost their own egos/identities.
Once their temporary emotional euphoria wears off and their unfeeling psychopathic side kicks in (to support their identities), then the equation is suddenly changed. It is no longer "worth" it to them to stay in a relationship even though their partner still loves them and is still loyal to them.

I see a similar pattern in NTs who purchase a "pretty" cat/pet or kitten because they want certain things (rewards) out of the purchase. Later when the kitten grows and becomes less cute and playful, or requires some other extra form of health care, they are often discarded outside like an old piece of furniture. There is no acceptance of responsibility, no loyalty, and absolutely no respect for their "pet" as a fellow living being. This is clearly psychopathic behavior. The way this behavior is rationalized is in terms of "practicality", which has nothing at all to do with reality, and is just a more friendly way to describe psychopathy.
The reality is that they used another innocent life to provide a thrill, and then discarded it when it became possible for them to rationalize some inconvenience. People treat each other this way in love relationships, and we also treat our elders in this way. Our society grows more psychopathic with each passing day.



NTs live in a self-generated imaginary world of perpetual euphoria fueled by chemical reward pathways in their brains. It makes them feel good for performing certain types of thinking and behaviors. It's a feedback system they have been conditioned for from a very young age. A self-supporting set of algorithms has evolved with the purpose symbiotically stimulating and using the chemical reward pathways. I call these algorithms the hive mind. It's a collection of mind viruses that trap individual humans into a limited set of behaviors which result in them becoming addicted to certain peptide releases in the brain. The hive mind algorithms have protective systems which provide punishments both mentally and physically due to either other peptides, or the lack of certain peptides.
Anything that starts dragging the person away from their imaginary addiction cycle and closer to reality is perceived as depression, and is very uncomfortable to the individual.
Reality, and the perception thereof does not provide or fuel a self-perpetuating chemical reward feedback mechanism. It does not provide an artificial euphoria.



I briefly summed up both mechanisms in this statement.
It is very much the same mechanism at play that is observed in drug addicts, but is presently much more socially acceptable. This situation is also evolving towards more forms of addictions and reality avoidance is becoming more socially acceptable.
Both humans and other forms of life are suffering because of this.

Things like forums where people can go to get rationalization and validation for their psychopathic behaviors and thoughts just accelerates this trend.

They may as well start a forum where they justify each other's decisions to abandon their cat or dog.
ex: My dog just stopped making me feel as good as he used to ....... Stay away from ____ breed of dog. I couldn't take it anymore and left him at a truck-stop. I'm returning my old dog to the shelter and getting a puppy. My dog cannot be trained to do what I want him to do. My cat sometimes pees outside of the litter box. My cat sheds too much now. My cat destroyed my expensive sofa.

Most people are not true psychopaths, but just mimic psychopathic behaviors because they are called for by social pressures. They need a wake-up call that these are other people and other life forms we are talking about, and not fuels for their materialistic delusions.

An addict thinks that they are always happy because they are avoiding depression, but they are never really happy at all, and they often come to realize this on their death-beds.

^ How are your generalisations and insults about NTs any different than the behaviour they are displaying on the ASPartners forum?

They are both sets of observations, so no difference there.
The difference is that one set is firmly based in reality - separate from the fabricated models in the human mind, and the other set is produced within several layers of imagination, based upon other imagined assumptions.

I'm going to trust that you have the ability to simplify the principles used on each side to the point of deducing which are based on real things and which are based on a set of ever changing ideas that are produced by group-think.
I've tried in the past to explain the differences using extensive documentation of logical steps, but unfortunately many people will just not make the connections.

By the way, saying that someone is an addict, or that someone is behaving in a psychopathic manner, is accurate observation when pointing out the conditional relationships, and not insult.
Insult is established only after someone assigns some arbitrary meaning to the observation. I didn't do that. I assigned the observations to positions within the flow of a logical process. Unless you want to change the definitions of the words "addict" or "psychopath", then my observations are correct.

I actually agree with Who_Am_I here. I think that you're doing the same kind of thing to NT's that the members of the ASPartners forum are doing. My complaint in that post is that we're being blamed for their "depression".

That site is really weird. When you go from one page to another, the address doesn't change, so you can't copy the address to post it here, since the address shown is for the first page. That doesn't happen to me elsewhere, only there. Anyone else have that problem when they're browsing there?
Jono, how did you get the correct link? I can?t get the address to change when I go to other posts there?


Anyway, another "great" thread is called "Help me cope!" section, thread title: "Compromise? ...or not!"

Even for that site bstn3 is incredibly hateful, spewing the hate speech in thread after thread.

I agree with Jono and Who_Am_I. Olympiadis is doing the same thing as they are.

There are a couple of points I feel the need to address. Sorry for going off topic.


I was in a LDR with an aspie male who claimed to love me and be loyal to me (and I was to him), but I ended it since he didn't respect my boundaries and kept making demands he knew I couldn't meet. He caused me stress and hurt, and didn?t seem to respect me. Some of it was close to emotional abuse. I have no problems saying that I didn?t deem him worthy of being my SO. Calling someone not worthy measn they have seriously failed you.
Some of the things I have seen talked about on that forum are actually things I would react to as well. That?s not the issue. No one is going to have much good to say about someone they feel have treated them poorly, and of course they wouldn?t deem them worthy of being their spouse.
The issue is how they demonize all aspies.


I agree that it is horrible, but what does it have to do with being NT? Some years ago there was a thread on this very site where some aspies talked about having mistreated animals in the past. Was that okay because they?re aspies?
How you treat an animal has to do with who you are, not your neurology. Some aspies and some NTs do those things and it?s not okay. But most aspies and NTs don?t think it?s okay, although most in either group don?t react as much as animal lovers. If NTs didn?t find it wrong, the laws would allow cruelty to animals. Granted they?re not severe enough, but that?s true for a lot of other crimes too.
Not everyone who volunteers at animal shelters are aspies.

Saying all NTs are like this or that is as wrong as saying it about aspies.

I did not and would not say "all NTs" because that wouldn't be accurate.
However, due to the primary M.O. of most NTs, it is entirely proper to generalize using the wording that I used.

Aspies do engage in animal abuse and also other psychopathic behaviors, but from what I have observed, and experienced, these behaviors originate from mimicry of NTs, and that the NTs' behaviors originate from their servitude of identity.
I realize that not everyone will realize the distinction that I'm describing.

What this distinction suggests is that if aspies developed in an environment of other aspies, with no exposure to NTs or identity-run culture, then they would not mimic those behaviors and things like animal abuse would be extremely rare in this test group.

Supporting observations could be gathered from past instances of analogous situations like certain early Native American cultures, because many were not identity driven, and many did not idolize psychopaths. These cultures were primarily based on real things, and were for the most part sustainable. A few of the cultures were not like that of course.

To understand the differences you must look past a lot of superficial details and reverse-engineer the processes involved until you reach very basic driving principles.

I do not see observation as the same thing as "bashing" or insulting.

Trying to take some middle road where you say that NTs and aspies perform some of the same behaviors really doesn't say anything at all, and fails at gaining knowledge about the processes involved.
NTs have certain characteristics.
Aspies have certain characteristics.
Some overlap.
I try to point out what causes the obvious incompatibilities.
Generalities are more useful than pointing out each exception.