Narcissism as The Next ASD

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https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/re ... m-disorder

I doubt highly.

Actually these disorders seem almost polar extremes in some ways. I name here few differences that are present from early on:

1. A narcissistic person lives for the outside (a need for outer gratification; false self) - an autistic person lives for the inside (a need for inner gratification; true self).

A narcissistic person admires his or her own image, for s/he can't really see or look into the inside, into the true self. Thus s/he is being forced to use a mirror image. An autistic person on the other hand lives in the inside and can't really see the outside reflection.

In my opinion terms true self and false self descripe these core differences well. "Normal" social skills require you to have the ability to see and use your mirror image and false self to an extent. Thus an autistic person fails socially. In narcissism on the other hand this false self has taken also the place of the true self. It is as if there isn't but this false self that on the contrary is lacking in severe autism.

2. Pathological lying - inability to lie.

3. Can read people socially well - can't read people socially.

4. Autism is a triad - social difficulties being one part. If we'd very, very loosely categorize the social manipulation, callousness, arrogance and entitlement present in narcissism with the social difficulties presenting in autism, narcissistic disorder would still lack the two other core components: language difficulties, e.g. lack of language or language delay and repetitive behaviors. With such a loose categorization also depression is on the same spectrum as is pretty everything.

And then we have the so called acquired narcissism, a term coined by Robert B. Millman. I also find it interesting that in the recent years the scores in psychological tests to detect narcissism in the residents of the United States have gotten higher (source: Wikipedia). Maybe the reason for this is the clear emphasis in our time on false self (social media, celebrity culture) at the expense of true self?

I have an outer and an inner self but I'm not a narcissist. I neither would call one false and one real; they are both me but both have access to different parts of me. eg: outer self can communicate, inner self can feel emotions. From what I gather, 'normal' people are fully integrated and don't have parts like this at all.

The thought process and brain organization of someone with autism is going to be vastly different from someone with narcisisstic personality disorder.

This article is missing all the underlying reasons for a behavior(s).

There are probably autistic narcissists, maybe Sam Vaknin is one. I think this is possible not so much by having an inner or outer self but rather a narcissist turns to the outside world for validation.

The commonality seems to be in some actions that would be involved in the behavior that shows a lack of empathy.
Another commonality would be a poor development of self, but in this case, as already pointed out, the way that that manifests and is observed is totally different between the 2.

I can't read your article, right now, because I don't have enough time----BUT, IMO narcissism is NOT an ASD because narcissism is a LEARNED behavior; whereas, an ASD is NEUROLOGICAL.

The writer of that article didn't seem to understand asperger's.

I was thinking that. Also is that a new profile picture?

I hate it when autism is compared to personality disorders. There's no connection between the two. Also, I see that Barbara Jacobs has responded in the comments section (she replied with name Barbara, so I assume it's Barbara Jacobs, author of "Loving Mr Spock"), giving a whole long post explaining the differences between AS and NPD.

Being pedantic here, but learned behaviors change neurology. 'Learned' compared to 'unavoidable' might be a better comparison.

I have an outer self too, and I am not a narcissist. I didn't mean the term "false self" as a synonym to "outer self". Many of the things we do in the outside truly come from the heart, as we say.

In some ways an "outer" and "inner" self have integrated in people, but I assume most people are aware of this "false self", as I mean it. I'll give an example: When an imaginary every day Jane comes home after a tiring day at work, she wipes out not just the concrete, but also the social and behavioral make-up. No need to wear it now. Jane, as most of us, acts alone very differently than in company. Might even scratch her crotch...

During the day at work Jane took part in ridiculing a colleague alongside the workplace bully, but now at home a feeling of shame and guilt suddenly emerges from nowhere. While cooking something to eat Jane also knows (in her true self) that her relationship isn't going that great with a violent and dominating partner even though at work she just highly praised him to her colleagues as kind and free spirited (false self). As Jane is unhappily starting to eat her supper, and oh boy, she eats messy alone, she feels those two things rubbing against each other and causing upleasant inner friction. But at least no one else knows about it than her true self!

Ignorant tosh..and discussed as such here:

http://luckyottershaven.com/2015/04/11/ ... aspergers/

My security flags that site red for various reasons and will not grant it automatic access.

I agree. I think of them as the inverse of each other.



Good point...and some brain abnormalities have been noted in people with NPD (less cortical thickness in the region associated with empathy).

A person with NPD is stuck in a childhood developmental phase, which is normal for about a 5-6 year old child...but where most people grow out of it, the person with NPD does not and those behaviors become a dominant and pathological feature in the personality. Autism on the other hand is a pervasive developmental disorder that is present from early childhood. It is not a personality disorder, and it does not cause or correlate to any specific personality traits.

I do not have an inability to lie....

There is also an important difference in the type of empathy that is weak or lacking in each. Narcissists tend to have great cognitive empathy, or simply knowing how the other person feels and what they might be thinking (they tend to abuse this), but weak or no emotional empathy. Autistics can have great emotional empathy, when you feel physically along with the other person, as though their emotions were contagious, but weak or no cognitive empathy.

BS

Starkid – Thanks for posting this.

The following is a quote from the article:


So, I have heard some in my family refer to my Dad (who I suspect is on the spectrum) as being a narcissist. Others in my family have commented about how I am similar to my Dad (in mannerisms, behavior, etc.).

This thread makes me wonder whether -- to some NTs -- we just simply “come off” as being narcissistic.