What does not understanding body language mean?

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Does that mean if you ask someone something and they nod or shake their head or shrug their shoulders you actually don't understand what it means? Or does that refer to the less obvious body language, which is understood subconsciously, if at all?

It's usually the subtle, subconscious things.

Deliberate, conscious attempts to communicate a specific thing like nodding the head I understand. And I can usually pick up on blatant displays, like if someone is lying on the ground in the fetal position in a puddle of their own tears I can tell that person is probably feeling hungry. But if they just pout a bit, play with their hair or stand like so, as far as I can tell that's nothing more than pouting or playing or standing, there's no meaning to it, it doesn't let me mindread emotions from them.

I don't really know. I'm good at recognizing body language, so I don't quite know what sort of body language other Aspies miss.

Are other Aspies really that oblivious to subtle body language, or do you notice it as well as I do but just don't know how to respond? Or do you really not know subtle body language at all?

I can understand all that. I think not understanding body language means not understanding more subtle body language. I can read obvious body language like if someone was walks off stomping their feet, I know they are doing it because they are mad. Or if a child throws something after I tell them no, it's because they are mad. Or a kid cries and slams their door hard, I know it's because they are mad. Yes someone with an ASD can pick up on these things but they might not even understand why the person is upset. They know you are mad but don't understand why. Kids make it so obvious how they feel but adults are more subtle with theirs. If you want me to know you are mad at me and upset, raise your voice at me please. Change your tone into a very angry tone and raise at me. The other day I didn't know my husband got mad at me because he didn't raise his voice at me. Then I was baffled when he told me in the car "I'm sorry I got upset this morning" and I thought at first he was apologizing for being mad at our son for whining and not listening but no he said he got upset with me this morning. He said I didn't read his facial expressions and I told him how do I know he isn't just poor at expressing himself and he said my parents can read him fine. He made it more obvious for our child he was upset with him but not with me. He changed his tone in to a growl tone and was calling him a baby and threatening to put him in diapers and telling him he is acting like a baby so we would mind as well treat him like one. I think adults change their body language for children so it's easier for me to read it. Even as a child I could pick up on that so I thought for years I could read it but I got told that I have a hard time reading it.

I am curious to know what subtle body language looks like.

Example one: Two strangers, a man and a woman, are at the grocery store. The man looks at the woman's face and moves his torso in her direction, without moving his feet. If the woman looks back at the man's face and smiles, it means that she wants to talk to him, and probably flirt. This will not necessarily go further than greeting, and small talk. If the woman turns her body away from the man and glances at the man's face, then away, without smiling, it means that she does not want to talk to him, or flirt. I think it works the same way in same gender gay scenarios.

Example two: Two people are having a conversation. Person One is talking, Person Two is listening. Person Two gradually stops looking at Person One's face and starts giving one word responses. Person Two will take a step back and turn their body away from Person One. Person One will wrap up the conversation and make an excuse to leave. Person Two gives a goodbye salutation, which Person One returns.

Example three: Two men are lying on the ground. Man One is mostly looking down, with arms and legs relaxed. He will glance around occasionally. Man Two is mostly looking around, with legs splayed out and arms tense. Man Two is contorting his face. Man One has a relaxed face. Man One is either homeless, drunk, or both. Man Two is having an emergency and needs help.

The way I feel about it is that much of the difficulty I have with body language has to do with a different way of processing it.

To me, reading body language is a conscious process - I have to watch like a hawk for a these little details, then make a conscious effort to correlate them with what I have learned about body language over the course of my life. Looking things up in a "User Manual for Humans", you might say.

My impression is that the majority of people don't have to engage in this conscious process - a "general impression" of the other person's body language is clear to them very rapidly from some kind of sub-conscious process that they they are not explicitly aware of.

So it's not so much a case of "can/cannot" read body language, so much as a different way of doing it which has a much higher cognitive load, so is much more tiring, and can be very distracting from other elements of the interaction.

This pretty much describes me as well. If it is obvious and explicit, I can understand it. If it is more subtle, I am lost. No wonder most of my friends did better at meeting girls at parties or the bar compared to me. They could tell by non-verbals that someone was attracted to them. I couldn't unless they told me, or just attacked me, something very obvious.

I'm not really sure, because I don't know whether or not there is something that I'm missing. I definitely can read obvious body language. I think that I also tend to read facial expressions well, perhaps better than average.

I think that there may be some subtle things that I miss, but there isn't any test that I know of for reading body language that I could use to determine whether or not I have a problem with it.

I know that I have trouble following plots in films and on tv. It may be because I miss things such as body language, but I think it's more likely that I don't understand people's motivations well enough or understand the social situations.

My problem tends to be more that while I do understand what people are feeling or conveying with body language and facial expressions, I don't understand why. I understand very easily when someone dislikes me, disapproves of me, or when I've done something wrong. I just don't understand why they feel that way or what I've done that was wrong.

Now that I think of it, I probably do miss some subtle body language. I know that I often am displaying body language that is obvious to others, but I'm unaware that I'm doing it. If I'm bored, or angry, or sad, it's usually really obvious to other people even though I'm not consciously appearing that way. It's bad that I'm unaware of my body language, because then I'm unable to control how it makes me appear to others.

It doesn't mean the obvious things; people are culturally conditioned to read things like nodding=yes and shaking head = no, and all but the most profoundly autistic people learn this.

It's the more subtle things. Not long ago I thought I was pretty good at reading body language, and I also thought my use of body language was standard and easy to understand by others.

More and more I realize my concepts of what body language means is not at all standard.

Example from just yesterday: I was on a city bus, and two people got on together. At least, they looked like they were together; they were talking, smiling, fairly animated and expressive, and sat side by side in the front of the bus.

But after a short time, the man sort of withdrew and the woman started interacting with other people who got on later. Some of them seemed to recognize her--one I'm sure knew her well as she gave her a hug and sat nearby. But gradually I realized it was possible that she was just a happy outgoing extravert that likes to interact with random people as much as possible. Maybe she just acts like everybody is her friend, even if they're actually random strangers on the bus. Maybe the man she got on with was a guy she'd just met at the bus stop, they got on okay so they continued their conversation on the bus but then other people she knew better got on.

Anyway, as I said she was very expressive with her body language. Expansive hand gestures, leaning her body this way and that, looking sometimes at the people she was talking to and sometimes all around at the rest of the bus. She made all this body language, and the whole time, I kept thinking "all those gestures and leans and facial expressions and sideways glances and everything she does has meaning. Most people know what. I don't!" Even if it's just something as simple as how much she likes or doesn't like the various people she's interacting with, I was not able to understand her body language.

I'm so bad at reading body language that I didn't know body language even *existed* until my teen years.

Anyway, for me it usually means that it is stressful and difficult to navigate through crowded areas since I have a hard time predicting the movement of other people.

It has gotten better in recent years, though, as I've learned - to a certain extent - to predict the movement of other people from experience and observation rather from intuitive cues (that I miss anyway).

As for more complex cues that signal emotional states etc... I gave up on that years ago... I find it much easier to simply avoid people who don't say what they mean...

I find this considerably easier than understanding people in "real life". Things like drama tending to use clichés, acting being exaggerated behaviour, along with foley and incidental music are a huge help.

It took me until I was in my twenties to identify this as something I couldn't do.


I've never found this to be a problem.
What I do find difficult and stressful is non being easily able to interact and join in.

Perhaps an example being someone is talking to you, not to themselves or the air.

I have this too, my face is always telling what I'm really thinking or feeling, at least I think so judging by the reactions of others. For example if someone is talking to me and I'm getting impatient because there are other things to do, but don't want to say anything actually because I want to be polite, just when I'm silently wondering when they finally are going to stop they will say something like 'I'll have finished in a minute!'
Even worse are such situations where people say something which is actually true but they probably don't care for a honest reaction, such as 'ha ha, that was silly of me, right?' when they did something stupid and the whole me is saying 'erm, yes', lol.

I thought I was becoming good at reading body language, flirting, etc (unlike my childhood. Ugh!) until my Fiancee and I sat down and did one of those "who initiated?" quizzes. Some were obviously like who initiated the engagement (I did) but when we got to the "who initiated the first kiss?" much to my surprise me she "that's easy: I did". When I mentioned that no, it was all me, she said "EVERYBODY could have figured out I was ready and waiting for that kiss!" I politely pointed out that no, I had ZERO idea if she was ready and she responded "come on, it was pretty obvious!". I still think she thought I was kidding around but I am dead serious.

Looking back to my teen years, I knew that standing face to face was an intense position but that's about all I understood. I was 100%, completely oblivious. Not that it matters now, but I can't help but think of how many women I brushed off who were interested in me because they didn't come out and say "you are cute and I would like to talk to you" as there's no earthly way a 6'6" athletic guy would get zero attention from the ladies. Further to that my mother was in the hospital about 10 years ago. I worked next door to the hospital so I dropped in frequently. I once went with the rest of my family and as we were leaving, my father and brother both mentioned how ALL the young Nurses were blatantly checking me out. I had NO IDEA and just assumed they were being professionals.

GGPViper and mpe, you're both way ahead of me; I was in my forties when I realized that I was all wrong when it came to reading body language.

Next example:
How, when you're walking down a hallway and others are in it going the other way, do you convey that you would like them to move to the right hand side to allow you to pass instead of proceeding down the center? I have to press myself against the wall to keep people from brushing me aside when we pass in the hall. For other people, they will move over and share the hall. For me, people tend to carry on barreling down the center of the hall as if I wasn't even there.

Also how do you get people to let you through when you are on your way out of an auditorium, and they are congregated in a doorway or an aisle having a conversation? How do you get them to move aside enough that you can get past them? Sometimes there's enough space between them that I can walk through, but I have to walk between people who are talking to eachother and that makes me very uncomfortable. Other times there just isn't enough space to get around or between them and I'm stuck there feeling stupid wondering how long I'll have to wait until they wrap up their conversation and let me out.

Does anyone else find it uncomfortable to walk between two people who are talking to eachother, or is that just me personally and not an ASD thing?