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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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05 Jan 2013, 2:05 pm

LizNY wrote:
. . . 3) does talking to myself while driving my car in an attempt to lessen my anxiety and overwhelming feelings count as stimming? when i was younger i would react with anger to feeling overwhelmed. i learned to take those feelings and work them off at the gym. but is that stimming or just finding an acceptable way to deal with feeling overwhelmed? . . .

I currently sometimes get angry when I get overwhelmed (and if you have additional methods and skills I'd appreciate hearing about them). I think some of this is a residue that when I was a child my mother would always tell me I was smart as if this was my main social trump card. Instead of, if I like someone, usually for small reasons, they are likely to like me back, or not, and either way is perfectly okay. That is, I don't need to work so hard at being liked. So, I don't know if this is an aspie trait or not. Plus, I am self-diagnosed. Please keep that in mind.

Just a thought, but some co-workers might be jealous of you, for the things you're good at, you're likely to be excellent at. So, these invitations to a "party" might be a mix of some good-natured and some a desire to see what makes you tick, and that is a tricky situation.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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05 Jan 2013, 2:13 pm

steoglynn wrote:
. . . In the time it took to get the diagnosis correct I have had some pretty brutal experiences, from being treated as an unruly child in school to being suspended on numerous occasions to long depressive episodes and over medication. . .

I have read that medication for depression is in---a respectful sense---trial and error. That zoloft might work great for some people, and not do a thing for others. And that's just where the science is at.

I have struggled with bouts of depression, and I realize not as seriously as other people. My personal plan is five months, five antidepressants, and that's merely my Vegas over-under (50% chance of working), and if that doesn't work, another five months and five antidepressants. Some sources say eight weeks to tell if an antidepressant works or not, but I'm not trying to be 'nice' to the antidepresant but rather would be trying to find something which works for me. I have not yet tried any antidepressants, but this is my evolving backup plan. (And of course standard proviso that sometimes important to come off the medication in stages.)

One conclusion of the trial-and-error is that I can just as well see an internist or family practitioner, who's less likely to be a prima donna than a psychiatrist.



LizNY
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05 Jan 2013, 6:01 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
LizNY wrote:
. . . 3) does talking to myself while driving my car in an attempt to lessen my anxiety and overwhelming feelings count as stimming? when i was younger i would react with anger to feeling overwhelmed. i learned to take those feelings and work them off at the gym. but is that stimming or just finding an acceptable way to deal with feeling overwhelmed? . . .

I currently sometimes get angry when I get overwhelmed (and if you have additional methods and skills I'd appreciate hearing about them). I think some of this is a residue that when I was a child my mother would always tell me I was smart as if this was my main social trump card. Instead of, if I like someone, usually for small reasons, they are likely to like me back, or not, and either way is perfectly okay. That is, I don't need to work so hard at being liked. So, I don't know if this is an aspie trait or not. Plus, I am self-diagnosed. Please keep that in mind.

Just a thought, but some co-workers might be jealous of you, for the things you're good at, you're likely to be excellent at. So, these invitations to a "party" might be a mix of some good-natured and some a desire to see what makes you tick, and that is a tricky situation.


Anger is my knee-jerk reaction to feeling overwhelmed, and the best way I have found to deal with it is to keep myself out of overwhelming situations to begin with or to remove myself once i start feeling overwhelmed. If I feel myself start to feel overwhelmed, and I know I can not immediately leave; then I rationalize the experience and tell myself there is nothing to be upset about and to not get angry and the situation will soon be over. A simple example is being at the mall and using an escalator. I hate standing on one with people both in front of me and behind me. It's a horrible horrible trapped feeling, so if I'm stuck there I rationalize to myself to not get mad. The good thing with that situation is that it doesn't last long at all, and I fail at overwhelming situations that last much longer than several minutes.

After reading everyone's comments and rethinking through the appointment with the psychologist, I'm starting to think self-diagnosis should be just as reliable and if not more reliable than a professional one. For why would anyone self diagnosis unless there is something going on and the individual is able to see what one is not and also what one is? The only reason I want a formal diagnosis is for possible protection at work. And I gave the office party example as just one situation where I am already overwhelmed and stressed due to overstimulation, and then the office party in addition to that is something I just can't deal with. Standing in a small area with several people and not knowing what to say to them. And it's typically an office-wide invite and anyone who would not want to attend....?....well that is just inconceivable to an NT. So they assume I have a problem with the birthday person, which is the LAST thing that's on my mind. I'm consumed with my anxiety and stress and social ineptitude and harbor no negativity towards the birthday person at all. And yes, I have had coworkers who were jealous of me. I have an ability to focus and work more efficiently and for a prolonged period of time that NTs can't seem to match. They excel with the social aspects of the workworld, when I flounder and panic socially. I'm also good at solving problems with the actual work that are obvious to me but missed by NTs, which helps me to look good to the boss but not so good to my peers who react with jealousy.



weathergeek
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05 Jan 2013, 9:02 pm

I always get angry when I'm frustrated or confused. And even though it's with myself, people around me think it's directed at them so after I've figured out whatever it is that has me frustrated or confused, I have to make the rounds to apologize. I don't necessarily take it out on them, but I do resent the intrusion when I'm focused and I can get a little snitty. Usually I just stare at them blankly until they leave. Now that I think about it, that's the only time it doesn't bother me to make eye contact. I guess because my brain is so focused on something else I'm not really seeing what I'm looking at anyway.



JBlitzen
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05 Jan 2013, 9:26 pm

Liz, have you taken this test?

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

I thought it was surprisingly reliable, based on the fact that over 90% of respondents in a different forum tested almost perfectly NT on it. Seeing their results floored me, online tests dedicated to X or Y are usually heavily biased toward X or Y. "Have you ever chewed gum? Well then of course you have bischizorepublicanitis, sign up for our free newsletter now!"

Do try to bend your answers away from an aspie result, though, in order to ensure a fair result.



LizNY
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06 Jan 2013, 8:23 am

JBlitzen wrote:
Liz, have you taken this test?

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

I thought it was surprisingly reliable, based on the fact that over 90% of respondents in a different forum tested almost perfectly NT on it. Seeing their results floored me, online tests dedicated to X or Y are usually heavily biased toward X or Y. "Have you ever chewed gum? Well then of course you have bischizorepublicanitis, sign up for our free newsletter now!"

Do try to bend your answers away from an aspie result, though, in order to ensure a fair result.


I just answer this stuff honestly.

166/200 - Aspie
57/200 - NT



Ann2011
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06 Jan 2013, 12:07 pm

That he dismissed your concerns so quickly makes me think he is threatened in some way by the possibility. In my experience psychologists are pretty much useless especially for diagnosis. I would suggest seeing a psychiatrist; this is not a guarantee of getting a competent person (but it does increase the chances.)
Some doctors don't want to deal with things that they are not experienced with and they will try to fit you into categories that they are interested in.
I would ditch this guy ASAP.



Rudywalsh
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17 Jan 2013, 12:28 pm

There is so much information today on autism, you can put two and two together and work it out for yourself. As long as you are satisfied with the results is what matters.

I have never had a diagnosis and don’t care if I do. I know I have autism.

I come from a generation where my mother would have been seen as a refrigerator mother, in other words it was her fault for my quirks and behaviour. LSD and shock treatment was a normal procedure in treating autism.


You have to line up all the pens and staples on your doctor’s desk in a straight line, or look down to the ground flapping your arms until you get a diagnoses today. Doctors still don’t have a clue, not enough passion, more money than sense...

Autism spectrum means everyone is different, why don't the so called experts understand this...



VAGraduateStudent
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17 Jan 2013, 4:27 pm

I'm a NT sociologist researching a new field called the sociology of autism. My focus is on autistic identity and autistic people passing as neurotypical or using neurotypical traits that are not natural to them. I have many aspie family members and friends.

I would have also suggested the aspie quiz. I've taken it and I scored toward the high end of NT. I like it because it asks a wide variety of thoughtful questions and asks the same questions in different ways to give you more accurate results.

I think that self identification of ASD is a lot like self identification of sexual orientation. Why would you go to a doctor and get them to tell you if you were gay or straight? How would you know what you were? What if you were a virgin? I think most people would assume they were straight (because that is the common orientation) and then if they thought they were gay they might read up on it, investigate their feelings, and then come to a personal conclusion.

When you're an adult, it can be difficult for others to accept that you're on the autism spectrum because you've already learned to accommodate for any natural social problems you may have. Others may see you as a little awkward or spacey, but this may not seem like enough for a diagnosis to most people. You probably stopped things like toe walking, gaze avoidance, and ecolalia years ago. If you have internal scripts that you use a lot, other people may not understand what goes into that. Often stimming changes from something like head banging when you're very small to tapping your hand or foot when you're an adult. That looks totally normal. So the main problems are internal. All a doctor can do at this point is prescribe medication. There are some medications (like in the thread about depression in this forum) that help if you're on a very low dose and some things that you can take as needed like Xanax or Ativan can help to avoid a meltdown. Meltdowns as an adult are essentially panic attacks, but because of the autism you may not look like you're having a panic attack and you may need to get to a calm place and may not be able to communicate that. So it's good to have a "get me out of this feeling" pill to take.

And yeah, I agree with what that other poster said, having an official diagnosis CAN help if you're having issues at work and need accommodations. Especially if you're passing so well that no one is taking your needs seriously. Something like meetings during a time when you're run down or an irritating light or sound that no one else can pick up on can be draining.

I personally think it's worth it to find out about ASD for your own personal knowledge and sense of power. I wouldn't bother going to that psychologist again. He's obviously stupid and doesn't get it.



LizNY
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17 Jan 2013, 8:42 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
I'm a NT sociologist researching a new field called the sociology of autism. My focus is on autistic identity and autistic people passing as neurotypical or using neurotypical traits that are not natural to them. I have many aspie family members and friends.

I would have also suggested the aspie quiz. I've taken it and I scored toward the high end of NT. I like it because it asks a wide variety of thoughtful questions and asks the same questions in different ways to give you more accurate results.

I think that self identification of ASD is a lot like self identification of sexual orientation. Why would you go to a doctor and get them to tell you if you were gay or straight? How would you know what you were? What if you were a virgin? I think most people would assume they were straight (because that is the common orientation) and then if they thought they were gay they might read up on it, investigate their feelings, and then come to a personal conclusion.

When you're an adult, it can be difficult for others to accept that you're on the autism spectrum because you've already learned to accommodate for any natural social problems you may have. Others may see you as a little awkward or spacey, but this may not seem like enough for a diagnosis to most people. You probably stopped things like toe walking, gaze avoidance, and ecolalia years ago. If you have internal scripts that you use a lot, other people may not understand what goes into that. Often stimming changes from something like head banging when you're very small to tapping your hand or foot when you're an adult. That looks totally normal. So the main problems are internal. All a doctor can do at this point is prescribe medication. There are some medications (like in the thread about depression in this forum) that help if you're on a very low dose and some things that you can take as needed like Xanax or Ativan can help to avoid a meltdown. Meltdowns as an adult are essentially panic attacks, but because of the autism you may not look like you're having a panic attack and you may need to get to a calm place and may not be able to communicate that. So it's good to have a "get me out of this feeling" pill to take.

And yeah, I agree with what that other poster said, having an official diagnosis CAN help if you're having issues at work and need accommodations. Especially if you're passing so well that no one is taking your needs seriously. Something like meetings during a time when you're run down or an irritating light or sound that no one else can pick up on can be draining.

I personally think it's worth it to find out about ASD for your own personal knowledge and sense of power. I wouldn't bother going to that psychologist again. He's obviously stupid and doesn't get it.



I'm definitely not interested in any medication. I do not want anything to alter my brain and body chemistry, and I am horribly sensitive to medication side effects. plus, this guy is a psychologist, and therefore, he is not in a position to prescribe any meds regardless. I tried to explain that people see me as different despite my ability to play NT for some period of time. I don't have it in me to convincingly fake my way all day and everyday. I go in and out of appearing normal, so people don't realize these struggles are there for me ALL THE TIME. Because of this, people will mistreat me thinking I am trying to hide something due to my shifty eye contact; that I'm acting out or intentionally trying to annoy them with my fidgeting and excessive body movements. So ignorant. My personal experiences with being bullied and harassed are beyond ridiculous, and i have TONS of them. There are many, many reasons why I have PTSD. A 'professional' diagnosis would help me to move into a protected class; a way to say I have struggles that are with me all day and everyday and that inhibit my ability to follow the NT social rules, to tolerate certain sensory experiences, and to experience social stimulation for prolonged periods of time. I worry the bullying will get so bad that I will have to stop working, because the workplace can become that nasty and threatening for me. (and yes, I am looking for a new job) If I have to stop working I will quickly fall into poverty. I have no boyfriend/fiance/husband, and after all of the relationship abuse i've endured, i'm not sure i have it in me to pursue another one of those relationships. Therefore, it's just me facing a bunch of people who don't understand me in the most basic ways, and who judge me and mistreat me. They roll their eyes at my difficulties, when it would be completely unacceptable for them to do these kinds of things with someone who was overweight, of a different race from them, elderly, gay, or who had a disability. The bullying and harassment at work is the ONLY reason I would like a diagnosis. But after the first appt went so badly, I don't think I have it in me to continue on with this. I really need to focus on getting a new job, and hopefully, whatever new job that FINALLY comes through for me will be with a much much more understanding group of people to be around.


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Seattle
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18 Jan 2013, 4:24 am

My shrinky-dink said the same thing. She also said if I DID have Aspergers then she couldn't treat my depression and anxiety with psychotherapy. Um, can't people with Aspergers have attachment issues and crappy childhoods and traumatic life experiences like anyone else? I'm just starting the process of getting diagnosed and fortunately an Adult Autism clinic just opened up in Seattle a few months ago. I'm going to beat on the door until someone answers. I know I have it - reading others' descriptions is like reading my own autobiography, and I don't know what else I could possibly have. If the glove fits etc. ... and if that makes me an unsuitable candidate for her brand of psychotherapy, then I guess I will have to hire someone better who can work with people with Aspergers.



Slowlearner
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18 Jan 2013, 8:32 am

removed due to idiocy on my part



Last edited by Slowlearner on 18 Jan 2013, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

restlesspirit
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18 Jan 2013, 8:53 am

I talked to a psychologist after i went though a year of a nightmare at work, we discussed aspergers but he said i was coping very well. it was just the stress of what I went though, that i was likey aspergers but didnt quality for treatment,,, and since i refuse to take meds that pretty much ended any chances of getting help.



Lockheart
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18 Jan 2013, 8:30 pm

Hi LizNY,

I'm sorry to hear your diagnosis experience didn't go well. Keep in mind that it's impossible for anyone, even a trained professional, to draw any conclusions in 20 minutes. I am thus skeptical that this guy is the right person to tell you that you don't have Asperger's. You need to find someone who specialises in diagnosing autism spectrum disorders. Find out how they diagnose you before you commit to anything. They should run tests and have an in-depth discussion with you. They may even discuss your childhood with your parents, if that's an option. A comprehensive diagnosis takes hours, not minutes.

You might have to accept the possibility that such a diagnosis will cost you money. Getting one is an exercise in weighing the pros and cons. For some people self-diagnosis is enough. For others, like myself, we wanted and needed the professional validation. More practically, it gives me access to important exam concessions at uni. It may - may, but not necessarily - assist you at work. If there isn't already a thread on it, you could start one, asking if people have been assisted in the workplace by an official diagnosis. I'd be curious about this one myself.

Whatever you decide, good luck. Let us know how you go.



Ann2011
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19 Jan 2013, 12:23 am

LizNY wrote:
A 'professional' diagnosis would help me to move into a protected class; a way to say I have struggles that are with me all day and everyday and that inhibit my ability to follow the NT social rules, to tolerate certain sensory experiences, and to experience social stimulation for prolonged periods of time.

I don't know how it is where you are, but in Ontario you can be put on a disability payment for having things associated with ASD. For example, social anxiety or depression.
If you have to continue to see the dismissive guy, maybe he would be more open to a different diagnosis that would have the same result for you.



LizNY
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22 Jan 2013, 7:09 pm

Lockheart wrote:
Hi LizNY,

I'm sorry to hear your diagnosis experience didn't go well. Keep in mind that it's impossible for anyone, even a trained professional, to draw any conclusions in 20 minutes. I am thus skeptical that this guy is the right person to tell you that you don't have Asperger's. You need to find someone who specialises in diagnosing autism spectrum disorders. Find out how they diagnose you before you commit to anything. They should run tests and have an in-depth discussion with you. They may even discuss your childhood with your parents, if that's an option. A comprehensive diagnosis takes hours, not minutes.

You might have to accept the possibility that such a diagnosis will cost you money. Getting one is an exercise in weighing the pros and cons. For some people self-diagnosis is enough. For others, like myself, we wanted and needed the professional validation. More practically, it gives me access to important exam concessions at uni. It may - may, but not necessarily - assist you at work. If there isn't already a thread on it, you could start one, asking if people have been assisted in the workplace by an official diagnosis. I'd be curious about this one myself.

Whatever you decide, good luck. Let us know how you go.


Thank you. And yes, part of my shock was from his blunt disagreement based on an outline of my life when I was 1) clearly emotional while talking about my past and 2) also obviously extensively educated in this area. If I was seeking a diagnosis, I obviously had a LOT of evidence for it. Given I had successfully obtained 2 college degrees and a good job, what other reason would I have for going for a diagnosis?


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