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Curiotical
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15 Sep 2012, 7:55 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:
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I had this conversation with my mother and she said it needs to be cured because of all the motor skill impairments that come along with autism. Well I’m twenty. Those went away by themselves. Sure I may not be able to throw a football like Brett Favre or run a six minute mile no matter how hard I push myself. Does it bother me? No. My body fixed itself. It’s a wonderful machine, the human body.


You were very fortunate that this happened. It doesn't happen for everyone, not by a long shot. A lot of people need help and therapy. Consider yourself lucky.


I agree, but to claim that someone's personality needs to be completely changed beyond recognition because of impaired motor-skills is wrong.


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15 Sep 2012, 11:49 am

Curiotical wrote:
Taverson wrote:
I prefer cats over human beings.


I prefer the company of my cat over that of most other human beings too! Cats are often compared to Autistics. A book called "All Cats Have Asperger's Syndrome" has been written on the subject.


I always saw my dog as having Aspergers Syndrome. He has bizarre eating habits, poor social skills relating too other dogs. Additionally, he seems to have anxiety issues like me.

What I need answered is "Does Autism Speaks seek to cure Aspergers" Im pretty sure they wish to cure profound Autism, which im pretty much and am in favor of.



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19 Sep 2012, 8:03 am

I'm hating the 1% (rich, powerful people) more and more.



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19 Sep 2012, 3:10 pm

The people who want a cure just want us to be happy. They find great pleasure being with other people and they want us to experience that too. To them, we're really missing out on some of life's greatest pleasures and that makes them sad. It's really self-absorbed to think that they all just want end you and that they all just hate your guts for being different. If someone hates you for being different, it's not because they're NT. Hell, I come from an area where most NT's embrace differences. No one looks twice at the guy who dresses like a wizard (he's real).

Not to mention that Autism is a spectrum. Some people are in more favorable places on the spectrum than others. Should we deny treatment and a possibility of a cure to those worst off on the spectrum just because some higher functioning people have chips on their shoulder?



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27 Sep 2012, 10:37 pm

I posted a comment that got deleted on this board for its offensive nature, but it's true that people on the spectrum are treated like blacks were treated prior to the Civil Rights movement.



lonelyguy
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30 Sep 2012, 5:57 pm

What would a cure mean for autistic people?
would they all of a sudden change the way they think and feel? ,would they turn into a so called normal person..i think not! it would never change the years of hell that some people with aspergers went through...i don't think there is a magical cure that can wipe out the past and all of a sudden you are a diffrent person...but maybe by accepting we are all diffrent in the spectrum and trying to put money into getting support and help for everyone with autisim might be the better cure.



thewhitrbbit
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30 Sep 2012, 6:40 pm

lonelyguy wrote:
What would a cure mean for autistic people?
would they all of a sudden change the way they think and feel? ,would they turn into a so called normal person..i think not! it would never change the years of hell that some people with aspergers went through...i don't think there is a magical cure that can wipe out the past and all of a sudden you are a diffrent person...but maybe by accepting we are all diffrent in the spectrum and trying to put money into getting support and help for everyone with autisim might be the better cure.


No one knows what a cure would do. Anti-cure people assume it would change them completely. Maybe it wouldn't, no one will know until we develop it, if it's even possible. Maybe its not.



steviewonderau
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01 Oct 2012, 10:39 pm

MacDragard wrote:
I posted a comment that got deleted on this board for its offensive nature, but it's true that people on the spectrum are treated like blacks were treated prior to the Civil Rights movement.


Minority groups are easy soft targets. Mainstream society are jealous/envious of high functioning autistic because we think/act differently to them.



CockneyRebel
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01 Oct 2012, 11:50 pm

steviewonderau wrote:
MacDragard wrote:
I posted a comment that got deleted on this board for its offensive nature, but it's true that people on the spectrum are treated like blacks were treated prior to the Civil Rights movement.


Minority groups are easy soft targets. Mainstream society are jealous/envious of high functioning autistic because we think/act differently to them.


They're also jealous of us, because many of us can be ourselves and they're afraid to be themselves.


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steviewonderau
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01 Oct 2012, 11:59 pm

We do not play the social games that NTs play. Our inability to not play the game and speak our minds and act independently makes us a threat to them. Even if we knew how to play the social game we probably would not play along and do our own thing any way.



thewhitrbbit
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02 Oct 2012, 10:06 am

steviewonderau wrote:
We do not play the social games that NTs play. Our inability to not play the game and speak our minds and act independently makes us a threat to them. Even if we knew how to play the social game we probably would not play along and do our own thing any way.


Way to speak for everyone... :roll:



BobinPgh
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14 Oct 2012, 4:00 am

Sometimes, and I was reading this on another board, society seems to have a problem with people who are introverted. We all have to be cheerleaders and social butterflies and and team players and if we are not, then something is wrong with us. For example, as part of my "treatment" when I was a child, I was supposed to shake the hand of the priest after mass - after he just semi-yelled at the congregation and I am supposed to act like everything is fine? For some reason, America (maybe Europe is less extroverted?) wants everybody playing softball and going out to the bar and you're weird if you want to read a book or play with a dog. Where this comes from, I don't know. I was sent to a psychiatrist because I was "too quiet" and he messed me up more than the original issue.

Meanwhile, I have my brother-in-law Gary (not his real name). Gary talks so loud it is painful, talks all the time, has issues with hygiene (skid marks!) and smells, dresses badly, but he is an extrovert and a doctor and people worship him. Meanwhile, I take showers all the time, wash my clothes, buy new clothes and I am quiet and no one worships me. What's wrong with this picture?



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14 Oct 2012, 1:44 pm

BobinPgh wrote:
Sometimes, and I was reading this on another board, society seems to have a problem with people who are introverted. We all have to be cheerleaders and social butterflies and and team players and if we are not, then something is wrong with us. For example, as part of my "treatment" when I was a child, I was supposed to shake the hand of the priest after mass - after he just semi-yelled at the congregation and I am supposed to act like everything is fine? For some reason, America (maybe Europe is less extroverted?) wants everybody playing softball and going out to the bar and you're weird if you want to read a book or play with a dog. Where this comes from, I don't know. I was sent to a psychiatrist because I was "too quiet" and he messed me up more than the original issue.

Meanwhile, I have my brother-in-law Gary (not his real name). Gary talks so loud it is painful, talks all the time, has issues with hygiene (skid marks!) and smells, dresses badly, but he is an extrovert and a doctor and people worship him. Meanwhile, I take showers all the time, wash my clothes, buy new clothes and I am quiet and no one worships me. What's wrong with this picture?


I had planned on staying silent this whole thread to see how it panned out, but I had to QFT this. You have thoroughly understood the spirit of my original post.


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BobinPgh
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14 Oct 2012, 11:30 pm

Taverson wrote:
BobinPgh wrote:
Sometimes, and I was reading this on another board, society seems to have a problem with people who are introverted. We all have to be cheerleaders and social butterflies and and team players and if we are not, then something is wrong with us. For example, as part of my "treatment" when I was a child, I was supposed to shake the hand of the priest after mass - after he just semi-yelled at the congregation and I am supposed to act like everything is fine? For some reason, America (maybe Europe is less extroverted?) wants everybody playing softball and going out to the bar and you're weird if you want to read a book or play with a dog. Where this comes from, I don't know. I was sent to a psychiatrist because I was "too quiet" and he messed me up more than the original issue.

Meanwhile, I have my brother-in-law Gary (not his real name). Gary talks so loud it is painful, talks all the time, has issues with hygiene (skid marks!) and smells, dresses badly, but he is an extrovert and a doctor and people worship him. Meanwhile, I take showers all the time, wash my clothes, buy new clothes and I am quiet and no one worships me. What's wrong with this picture?


I had planned on staying silent this whole thread to see how it panned out, but I had to QFT this. You have thoroughly understood the spirit of my original post.


Really? Tell me more. What is QFT. I hope I did not gross you out too much about Gary but even my NT sister says he is hard to tolerate -- but he's a doctor!



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15 Oct 2012, 9:03 am

Look, I completely sympathize. Really. I spend days hiding in my house and nights crying myself never-quite-to-sleep over this.

And, yes, it is eugenics. In soft-serve form, but eugenics none the less. How else do you explain the number of times I've been told by professionals that I should not have been permitted to breed or to retain custody of my children despite the fact that they are clean, healthy, decently educated for their ages, and reasonably well-behaved?? No, I'm not perfect as a mom-- but I haven't seen anyone who is. I am just imperfect is ways that differ from the mass majority-- less likely to fail to explain a a concept or teach my children to be bullies, more likely to forget a snack of a piece of paperwork or to fail to see a problem with a child having an emotional meltdown or speaking their mind-- and are therefore less likely to be tolerated.

Perfection is the ideal everyone strives for. Demands of themselves and of others too, whether they admit it or not. Our imperfections are not greater or lesser-- they are simply different, and therefore less likely to be politely overlooked by people who cannot see themselves in them.

I end up spending so much energy trying to blend in that I don't have any left for dealing with the memory issues, the executive functioning problems, and the frustration tolerance that are real issues for me. Don't even get me started on what it does to the anxiety levels my overgrown amygdala is already prone to produce.

It makes me sick.

But what you are talking about is changing human nature. Homo sapiens are herd animals in the extreme-- embracing that which is the same on a conditional basis and rejecting that which is different outright. That is never going to change.

At least, not for one to three percent of the population. And you have to dig that those of us who are high-functioning enough to get by within the rules set by the other 97 percent are the minority within the minority.

Ranting and railing doesn't help. Hating wastes only your own energy.

Your best bet is to cultivate sympathy for the majority within yourself-- poor them, they can't see outside their box any better than we can, and at least we get to define the parameters of our boxes (as long as we're in private, anyway) instead of having them defined by everyone else's boxes.

Then you can something like smile and be friendly as you gently suggest to other people that differences are there to be embraced and appreciated, that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and our job as human beings is to learn from each others' strengths even as we are tolerant and understanding of each others' weaknesses (as opposed to our current system of maximizing our strengths while exploiting others' weaknesses-- the holdover of a colonial culture that has got us into this global mess we're in). That, as we have been struggling to accept for decades now, perfection isn't possible, or reasonable, or even really desirable. That we've been sold a bill of s**t by authorites and advertisers to leave us laboring under the delusion that it is or should be.

All the while, you keep your own diagnosis to yourself as much as possible. You never let yourself believe in the reality of what you are teaching, even as you must believe in the possibility all the time. Because there are predators out there, and the world is full of stupid people, and even though changing that is the whole objective, there will always be some and the fact that those are still the people our culture idolizes isn't going to change over night.

Or, for that matter, change much over the course of a lifetime. This is a cause that might benefit folks three or four generations from now, The only benefit we're ever going to get from it is the satisfaction of knowing we tried.

Have patience. Human beings are not all we've cracked ourselves up to be. Really, we're not much more than bald monkeys who have become exceptionally aggressive to make up for the fact that we're not strong enough to brachiate effectively. This is such a frightening state that we've created thermonuclear weapons and a whole host of cultural devices, just to make ourselves feel better.

We're still fighting with racial diversity. Struggling to wrap our minds around cultural diversity. Utterly failing with religious diversity. Neurodiversity is an idea that's going to be a looooooooong time coming.


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Taverson
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15 Oct 2012, 10:11 am

BobinPgh wrote:
Taverson wrote:
BobinPgh wrote:
Sometimes, and I was reading this on another board, society seems to have a problem with people who are introverted. We all have to be cheerleaders and social butterflies and and team players and if we are not, then something is wrong with us. For example, as part of my "treatment" when I was a child, I was supposed to shake the hand of the priest after mass - after he just semi-yelled at the congregation and I am supposed to act like everything is fine? For some reason, America (maybe Europe is less extroverted?) wants everybody playing softball and going out to the bar and you're weird if you want to read a book or play with a dog. Where this comes from, I don't know. I was sent to a psychiatrist because I was "too quiet" and he messed me up more than the original issue.

Meanwhile, I have my brother-in-law Gary (not his real name). Gary talks so loud it is painful, talks all the time, has issues with hygiene (skid marks!) and smells, dresses badly, but he is an extrovert and a doctor and people worship him. Meanwhile, I take showers all the time, wash my clothes, buy new clothes and I am quiet and no one worships me. What's wrong with this picture?


I had planned on staying silent this whole thread to see how it panned out, but I had to QFT this. You have thoroughly understood the spirit of my original post.


Really? Tell me more. What is QFT. I hope I did not gross you out too much about Gary but even my NT sister says he is hard to tolerate -- but he's a doctor!


QFT = quoted for truth

And I really feel you got this spot on in regards to the introversion. All my life, I've dealt with people who tell me I need to break out of my box and overcome my Asperger's. They think it's a habit instead of a permanent condition that can be snapped with a little elbow grease. "Why don't you look people in the eye?" "Why don't you talk to girls more?" "Why don't you express yourself?" Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

It gets sickening some times.


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