Orlando - Who is responsible?

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Some blame gun rights. Others blame Islam. Still others blame a lack of mental health services. Me, I blame myself.

Every time I laughed to blend in when I heard a gay joke.
Every time I stayed silent when someone exclaimed that's so gay.
Every time I turned a blind eye to bigotry from friends and colleagues.
Every time I failed to hold elected officials to account.
Every time I stayed invisible when I needed to be seen.

We are all to blame for the murders of 49 innocent people. And for the thousands who are assaulted every year.

Please remember to vote next November. Let's free the hostage that is our government from the bigots and willfully ignorant.

No, the only person responsible was the guy who went in there and shot up the place. He had the agency to make his own choices. He chose to go in there and kill innocent people.

While I think religion is nonsense, Islam is certainly the mother load of bad ideas (particularly Salafi Islam, which has lead to ISIS, Al Qaeda, and others). It seems like many religions have their Dark Age moment, and for Islam, that period is now.

Regardless of the problems within Islam, it was still his choice to commit an act of mass murder.

Because no one wants to make it against the law to be "crazy", they try to make firearms illegal. Those guns did not load, aim, and shoot themselves. They were loaded, aimed, and shot by a person who, by his actions, was indeed "crazy".

A number of things were to blame. The guy who did it for one. Homophobia as well. The fact that people have access to guns (argue what you will, countries with strict gun control laws do not have mass shooting epidemics).

Islam isn't the blame, he's known to have not been particularly religious. He didn't pray and he wasn't observing Ramadan.

I agree that we as people have some blame in the homophobia department. I'm bi/panromantic myself but I've said and done homophobic things, especially when I was younger. Sometimes we don't think about how small things add up to a huge sum eventually.

I don't know if the shooter was mentally ill, so I won't speculate on that. I do believe in general that we do need better mental health care, but that goes without saying.

He is supposed to have called 911 and said he was with Isis

Uh, no. This is completely wrong. The ONLY one responsible is the shooter. He was heavily influenced by Islam, particularly the brand promoted by ISIS. And ISIS has encouraged other Muslims in countries around the world to do crazy things like this on Ramadan.

It makes sense that murderous psychopaths would be drawn to such a command.

If you think this has anything to do with laughing at a gay joke, you clearly have very limited and superficial understanding of just what is going on.

The shooter was known for his terrorist sympathies ever since 9/11 in 2001; he was reportedly cheering in class when he saw the second plane hit one of the World Trade Center.

This shooter was an idiot whack job. And Islam heavily supports the execution of gay people. Read you Koran or talk to a local mosque leader, and you'll see.

It was the shooter. Period. People like that will latch onto anything that will help them justify their need to destroy.

It will not matter. It is something that serves that individual's inner narrative only.

For MY god!!...Boom!

Against YOUR god!! Boom!

Against ANY god!! Boom!

Anything can fit a narrative. Any narrative. It's all excuses for any wackadoodle's need for destruction.

You read your quran, it says absolutely nothing about executing gay people. Rather it says people guilty of adultery should be executed, no specific allusions to homosexuality there, and generally homosexual acts are not counted as adultery. Only part were homosexual behavior is condemned is with the destruction of the people of Lut, where there is more sexual deviancy alluded to aside from homosexuality such as rape, the homosexual behavior was explicitly homosexual rape. The main issue with homosexuality is it occurs outside of marriage, homosexual anal sex grouped with heterosexual anal sex under liwat. The basis for executing homosexuals comes not from the quran, but hadith, which is still pretty ambiguous on that manner. Historically there was some degree of tolerance to homosexual behavior in the Islamic world, and some degree of killing homosexuals. Same as the rest of the world at the time, only with it's own cultural nuances.

The term for "local mosque leader" is iman, and I'm pretty sure my local iman is against killing gay people, though pretty sure he is still against homosexuality. I'm not muslim so I wouldn't know, but I had a professor who is good friends with said iman. Freaking tired of ignorant islamaphobs. I will give that at least BaronHarkonnen85 seems to not be ignorant. OP is correct in the problem is not islam specifically, but wider problems of homophobia, which can only be fought by getting people less ignorant about homosexuality.

The Bystander Effect is strong. I know what you mean. I am guilty too.

This concept of "Collective Guilt" is a sham. I am no more guilty of murder than you are; but if you want to take the blame for all 50 at Pulse, then go for it. Just don't drag me down your razor-lined rabbit hole with you.

With that attitude, I'm all the more tempted to pull you down said razor-lined rabbit hole.

^This dufus^

While "Collective Guilt" is a collectivist idea that groups of humans can bear guilt above and beyond the guilt of individual members, contemporary systems of criminal law accept the principle that guilt shall only be personal. Are you so far above the law that you are privileged to assign guilt to whomever it pleases you? I sincerely doubt it.

"Collective Guilt" is what racists cite to blame an entire culture for the acts of the few, such as all blacks for the rape of one white girl, all Asians for the attack on Pearl Harbor, all Jews for the death of Jesus, or all middle-easterners for the death of Daniel Pearl.

In fact, the concept of "Collective Guilt" seems to be at the root of bigotry itself, including racism, sexism, ableism, and other "-isms" that paint all members of one group or another with the same broad and filthy brush.

Are you a bigot?

That's an insult to dufusses everywhere!

True.

If it weren't the LGBT community it would have been some other group. He just liked to kill.

Yeah, I'm definitely dragging you down that rabbit hole.