Rape, Victim-Blaming, and... random stuff about religion

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Generalize very little. Of Moroccan young men where I live, 65% have been held by police. That's not generalization - that's fact. Moroccan women are a bit less problematic - after all, Moroccan men import women from Morocco to the European countries where they live because Moroccan women are considered 'too western', forcing Moroccan women out of those social groups and into social mobility. Among Belgian Moroccans, more than half of them apparently marry women imported from Morocco, and it's not much better in the Netherlands. But yes, let's actively ignore that problem, because addressing it will land you accusations of racism.



Whoa, there. Stop addressing Romani people with those racist slurs.



Glad you know me better than I do. Do you want to be my aide-de-camp? You probably also know what my favourite food is, and what temperature I want the water to be when shaving.



Desperate scrabbling? That's amusing, especially if you consider that you answered statistics and rationalism with accusations of racism and inhumanity. All I'm saying, and that's the truth, is that sometimes, people take risks they shouldn't be taking. If I go outside, walk up to a group of drug dealers hanging around and challenge one of them to a fight, they'll never fight alone, and I'll be outnumbered. That's why I'm not going outside, walking up to a group of drug dealers and challenging one of them to a fight, even though I'd love to. You shouldn't expect, against better judgement, that people have good intentions and will act fairly.

NO, I meant the same thing for the gypsies as for the muslims. They have cliques, which means that a certain % of them form groups that tend to be radical and intolerant, which doesn't mean all of them are like that. Most westerners get the image of muslims and gypsies to be criminal because the rotten apples out of these groups tend to come to western-europe for financial benefits but a lot of these so called rotten apples actually go for shittier jobs than ours just for the sake of having a job and not being a leech. Judge people on their character and not on their race or religion or culture or looks please.

@HDM Not sure about food, but gonna try books - Mein Kampf? just kidding, man. Each to their own. Though I would definitely agree with Uprising on judging by character first and foremost.

@BlueMax I really don't know how that happens. I guess people seem to enjoy talking about it.

You haven't presented any evidence to support that statistic. If you heard it or read it somewhere, and can't provide evidence for it, it is not a supported claim.

http://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledgebase/318-delinquency-among-minority-youth-can-they-be-better-rehabilitated

The researched statistic is 54% of Moroccan youngsters under the age of 22, that have come into contact with the police in the Netherlands. The main registered crime among Moroccan juvenile justice offenders is vandalism of private property whereas their Turkish counterparts are more likely to be involved in violent crime per the Netherlands Institute for the Study of Crime and Law Enforcement.



Here are the factors associated with sexual violence against women; sexually attractive clothing is not identified as a factor associated with sexual violent acts against women. Rape is a sex crime of violence.

If one wanted to avoid the major factors associated with being a victim of sexual violence, they would not get married, live together, or exist as female under the age of 18. We certainly wouldn't suggest that it is a women's fault because they got married, that they were raped. There is no reputable third party sourced evidence that suggests that sexually attractive clothing is a factor specifically associated with rape, so that claim has no basis.

A non-evidenced assertion that women are to blame for a violent act of rape, in part, because of their clothing promotes a "rape culture", as well as rape jokes that minimize the crime, where one never knows if a potential predator is in the audience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factors_associated_with_being_a_victim_of_sexual_violence



The FBI reports the highest statistic of reported sexual violence in the US are among those that are 15 years of age in the US. Two-thirds of sexual violence in the US is reported among those under 18 years of age. 71% of all sexual violence reported occurs in a residence and less than 1 percent of those under the age of 18 reporting sexual violence are assaulted by a stranger.

It is female children that are most often reported the target of sexual predators that commit violent crime against females, in the US. It is often the defenseless that are targeted.

http://www.ovw.usdoj.gov/docs/svrr-meeting.pdf

http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... n8cqGk9tLg

Unless you speak Dutch, or you've mastered the art of having the internet translate it for you, you're not going to be able to read it. I'll translate an excerpt containing the information I claimed to be true. In the report itself, which is available as a PDF through that link, the relevant part starts on page 207.



There's the information we've both been vying after. I'm glad I managed to track down that report. It's dated January this year, and it's about the situation of several generations of immigrants in 2011.



Yes, according to an article that should be in serious jeopardy for being more biased than the Republican Party's website.



Where did you get that? Why is it hard to assume that some women dress and behave in a way that puts them at risk, but is it not hard to assume that rape jokes magically make for a culture where rape is considered acceptable? To be honest, your assumption is as un-evidenced as you claim mine to be. And, yet again, the article is considered to need clean-up, and has disputed neutrality.

You can't possibly be serious, can you? This is one of the most absurd things I've read in a long, long time. And I read a lot of absurd things.

He has a point. It's called avoid negative attention when you don't want to deal with it or can't deal with it.

I don't have that problem, but you can't assume that someone will jump to your aid.

Completely irrelevant, in the context of cultural ideals. And that was the lesser of the two absurdities.

The deal with the attention. It doesn't mean someone is going to help you if you're in trouble. With as litigious as US society is now days (DA's and defendants), the life of some victim isn't worth the risk to my life legally therefore the most I will do is call the cops if I see anything. When seconds count, the cops are minutes away at best.

What on earth does this possibly have to do with cultural attitudes about whether rape is acceptable or not, and who is responsible for it?

As far as being a bystander, I wouldn't feel like a man if I did that. I'd feel like a coward. A lawsuit, hah. I'll risk DEATH before being a cowardly bystander. What do I care about a lawsuit?

Exactly - like the women who wear skimpy tops and then get all hacked off when they get unwanted attention from men they don't find attractive.



Difficult to say that if you're not in that situation. You have to weigh it up by ear as well - sometimes, intervening will only put you at risk and won't help the person. Also, you have to be careful as sometimes the person being attacked will turn on you, especially if it's their partner and they're drunk.

Unless it's clear-cut and there are other people around that I can call on, it's too risky.

You risk jail time due to an overzealous DA. You risk getting sued civilly. Either way it's a major disruption to your life that can take a major hit financially or even bankrupt you.

The "attacker" could also be her boyfriend or pimp and she could turn on you as well. Then it's your word against both of theirs.

There isn't the equivalent of a good Samaratain law for getting involved like this. If you have nothing to lose then go for it. My rule set includes me staying out of jail unless it's unavoidable. A stranger isn't an unavoidable circumstance.

So you're scared, fine, what's this got to do with the topic at hand though? What does your worrying about civil suits for being a good Samaritan have to do with how people perceive rape?

Perceiving rape, not much. It can be considered part of avoiding a risky situation. You only need to avoid risky situations if you can't handle them. You can always count on others to aid you.

Oh man, it's kind of funny how this topic is going full-circle.

Do you guys honestly believe that if a woman is walking alone at night, with no one around, in a bad neighbourhood, defenseless (which she probably would never do if she was smart), then what she is wearing would make a difference? You guys compare it to a lock, but seriously, clothes will do nothing to protect you when you are facing a criminal.

Honestly, I think you guys have the motivation aspect of rape all wrong.

Acquaintance rape, the most common, is usually done during dates or parties, through coercion or drugs. It's a planned or forceful attack that can happen when a woman is in a "safe" environment. Usually, these guys don't think they are raping the woman, because they were raised in "rape culture" where they believe ridiculous things like a woman is fair game if she is dressed attractively.

Strings of violent rape are usually done by psychopaths who have something mentally wrong. There is no predicting their behaviour, all you can do is keep yourself safe on the streets, and connected with other people (letting them know where you are, calling someone, being with a friend, etc).

Other random criminal rapes are either gang activities, again perpetrated because of rape mentality, or occur in slew of theft, kidnapping, or some other crime that you can protect yourself from.

The reason why this angers me so much is the amount of people on this forum who will blame the victim for the way she dresses! I'm sure you are all fine men who know better than to rape a woman who is dressed attractively, but the fact remains that you are promoting "rape mentality", and perhaps the one out of twelve men who may rape a woman is reading this thread right now, and thinking that this would be okay!

Then it's not really relevant to a discussion about cultural ideals.