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Who_Am_I
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17 Jan 2013, 5:26 am

metalab wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:

The entitlement thing comes from the fact that there are a lot of guys out there who whine that they were friends toward a girl, and she didn't give them sex in return.
There's a famous Craigslist post that berates girls for "not returning emotional intimacy with physical intimacy".


I've not really encountered these guys or this subject much...

Is it really so bad that some guys try to induce sexual feelings by being emotional and friendly with a female? The only guys your going to hear whining about it are the ones it didn't work for. Any process of sexual seduction I've been involved with has always been predicated with a considerable amount of emotional connection and 'being nice' to one another.


I've encountered it a bit, but I try to avoid people with a sense of entitlement.

It's not so bad that they try; that in itself is reasonable. It's when they get angry with the girl/s for not responding in the way that they were "meant" to: i.e., with sex, that it becomes a problem.
Being disappointed or upset also isn't inherently a problem. It becomes a problem when the upset person takes the attitude "I didn't get the sex that I was owed for being nice".

Back to the definition of "friendzone"; I've heard 3 main ways that it's used (and I suspect that a lot of problems come from the fact that people use it one way and people assume they meant one of the others, and noone bothers to clarify):

1. Someone expressed romantic interest in someone; the interestee prefers to be friends. In this scenario, there is no using (as in 2.) or false pretenses (as in 3.).
2. Person A is really nice to Person B, providing a shoulder to cry on, someone to b***h to about bad relationship. etc. Person B never reciprocates unless they want something, in which case Person A is suddenly "a really good friend".
3. Person B turns down person A's advances. Person A is angry, because the only purpose of their friendliness was as a means to getting laid. They typically view friendship with the opposite sex for it's own sake as a waste of time.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Jan 2013, 6:20 am

billiscool wrote:
what is called when a girl claims to be a guys girlfriend but she never want to have sex with the guy
or even make out. and the guy can't date any other girl but her. In some cases the girl flirts with other guys,
and even cheats with other guys, but her boyfriend has to stay loyal to her.
''megan says she is bob's girlfriend, but she never kisses him,and she always kissing all these other guys''

is this consider friendzone. or something else.


It's called the Foolzone.



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17 Jan 2013, 8:14 am

The friend zone exists, IMO......

......however......

to me it's not as simple as "this person rejected me and now we're just friends." To me, you're in the friend zone when the person rejects you and then doesn't treat you like a friend anymore. They treat you like an emotional sponge. They torture you with their problems, while simultaneously not being a true friend to you. They no longer offer you advice, or hang out with you nearly as much, or even look at you as human. They look at you with contempt and feelings of inferiority, and that's why so many of these people will tell you how evil their boyfriend/girlfriend is, repeatedly, but won't extend an olive branch when it's your turn to say something. Essentially, they take the whole friendship for granted.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Jan 2013, 8:29 am

meems wrote:
Well, life is disappointing, and I've repeatedly admitted to having sexist beliefs. It's not something I fail to recognize. I'm pretty much just being a rotten sh** at the moment.


How do you smell like?



aspiemike
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17 Jan 2013, 12:04 pm

1. I saw the foolzone comment brought up. And 2. I saw the comments brought up about how one person can take the other for granted in these types of situations.

My two cents: The girl is using the guy she is not sleeping with for emotional comfort and chances are she is not looking for anything from you and wants to fulfill her desires elsewhere. It kind of goes back to what person number 2 said.



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17 Jan 2013, 1:44 pm

the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.

wait, wait, before the protestations of... it's not a true friendship because the friend is just using the person as an "emotional tampon" or something (amirite?)... IF it is a crappy friendship in the first place... then why the heck would anyone want to date or befriend such a person who can't even be a decent companion in a reciprocal way? it makes no sense.


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17 Jan 2013, 2:09 pm

A lot of times friendzone probably just means that either the guy or girl(or both) is too nervous to try making "the first move".



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17 Jan 2013, 4:09 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.

wait, wait, before the protestations of... it's not a true friendship because the friend is just using the person as an "emotional tampon" or something (amirite?)... IF it is a crappy friendship in the first place... then why the heck would anyone want to date or befriend such a person who can't even be a decent companion in a reciprocal way? it makes no sense.


It's only not valued if they don't value mine. If they treat me like an "emotional tampon" while simultaneously not showing any support to me (friendship is 50/50), then they're not gonna have the benefit of my friendship anymore.

Sometimes it isn't as simple as "if it's a crappy friendship in the first place, why are you friends with that person?" It's because some friendships start out great and stay great (even right from the beginning) but go south if one or the other person uses the other as a punching bag. People change quite fast in my experience, and oftentimes, not for the better. I can tell you that the last "relationship" (if you can call it that) I was in, me and the girl got along great for about 2 years or so. We had even discussed wanting to date if we were to ever meet each other. Then that went south, and she got to the point where she would give me one-word answers to everything. What kind of friendship is that? I cut all ties with her at the beginning of the year.


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hyperlexian
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17 Jan 2013, 4:28 pm

DialAForAwesome wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.

wait, wait, before the protestations of... it's not a true friendship because the friend is just using the person as an "emotional tampon" or something (amirite?)... IF it is a crappy friendship in the first place... then why the heck would anyone want to date or befriend such a person who can't even be a decent companion in a reciprocal way? it makes no sense.


It's only not valued if they don't value mine. If they treat me like an "emotional tampon" while simultaneously not showing any support to me (friendship is 50/50), then they're not gonna have the benefit of my friendship anymore.

Sometimes it isn't as simple as "if it's a crappy friendship in the first place, why are you friends with that person?" It's because some friendships start out great and stay great (even right from the beginning) but go south if one or the other person uses the other as a punching bag. People change quite fast in my experience, and oftentimes, not for the better. I can tell you that the last "relationship" (if you can call it that) I was in, me and the girl got along great for about 2 years or so. We had even discussed wanting to date if we were to ever meet each other. Then that went south, and she got to the point where she would give me one-word answers to everything. What kind of friendship is that? I cut all ties with her at the beginning of the year.

right.... so what was the problem? she wasn't a good friend, so you stopped being friends with her. there wasn't a "friendzone" involved.


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17 Jan 2013, 4:55 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.


A lot of the time, it's not that they don't value friendship, just that they want more than just friendship and the other person isn't interested in them the same way. It's hard for some people to remain being just friends with someone, and knowing that they'll only be friends if they have romantic feelings for them. It's not that they don't value friendship with them but if they have romantic feelings for them as well, then that can't just be turned off, so often they choose not interact with them for a while.



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17 Jan 2013, 4:58 pm

Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.


A lot of the time, it's not that they don't value friendship, just that they want more than just friendship and the other person isn't interested in them the same way. It's hard for some people to remain being just friends with someone, and knowing that they'll only be friends if they have romantic feelings for them. It's not that they don't value friendship with them but if they have romantic feelings for them as well, then that can't just be turned off.

again, that doesn't make the concept of the "friendzone" valid. the other person in that scenario has done absolutely nothing wrong - it is the second person who is not holding the friendship i high enough esteem to keep it out of such terms as "friendzones" and such. if it was valued by the first person they wouldn't call it that.


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17 Jan 2013, 5:27 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.


A lot of the time, it's not that they don't value friendship, just that they want more than just friendship and the other person isn't interested in them the same way. It's hard for some people to remain being just friends with someone, and knowing that they'll only be friends if they have romantic feelings for them. It's not that they don't value friendship with them but if they have romantic feelings for them as well, then that can't just be turned off.

again, that doesn't make the concept of the "friendzone" valid. the other person in that scenario has done absolutely nothing wrong - it is the second person who is not holding the friendship i high enough esteem to keep it out of such terms as "friendzones" and such. if it was valued by the first person they wouldn't call it that.


What would you call it then? "Friendzone" is just a word used to describe the situation I described above. The point is, the first person didn't want just a friendship, they instead wanted a romantic relationship and that's why it's called that. It doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. But how does the first person remain try to remain friends if they have romantic feelings that activated everytime they see them and knowing that a relationship won't happen? Now, this is not true with everyone, but why do think most exes choose not to remain friends after their relationship ended? It's for the same reason, they can't get over the attraction for them



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17 Jan 2013, 5:30 pm

billiscool wrote:
what is called when a girl claims to be a guys girlfriend but she never want to have sex with the guy
or even make out. and the guy can't date any other girl but her.

Up to here: If he's OK with that, too, I don't see any problem.
billiscool wrote:
In some cases the girl flirts with other guys,
and even cheats with other guys, but her boyfriend has to stay loyal to her.

I think it's "exploitation zone" then.



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17 Jan 2013, 5:35 pm

billiscool wrote:
what is called when a girl claims to be a guys girlfriend but she never want to have sex with the guy
or even make out. and the guy can't date any other girl but her. In some cases the girl flirts with other guys,
and even cheats with other guys, but her boyfriend has to stay loyal to her.
''megan says she is bob's girlfriend, but she never kisses him,and she always kissing all these other guys''

is this consider friendzone. or something else.



No, thats called being used like a fool.

Friend zone is when the girl actively avoids any romantic attachment with you while still going out with you and enjoying herself (this meaning you go out with her its not a date but 'hanging out' despite it being identical to date). Friends zone is when the girl knows you're in love with her and she thinks its cute but doesn't even consider you on her 'possibles' list.

Thing is, the difference between being a friend to a girl and being in the friends zone is that the friend will hang out with you and talk/listen to you ...friends zone is when the girl will not even hang out or speak/listen to you unless she's getting something out of it (restaurant/trip/etc).



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17 Jan 2013, 5:49 pm

Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
the friendzone is a word that is used by people who aren't happy to be friends with someone (think about it. why use that word if you're happy to be friends?). it's not a particularly nice word because it devalues something precious: friendship. perhaps there are some aspies out there who can't step outside their front doors without tripping over excess friends, but i sincerely doubt that most aspies are in that position so i don't really understand why such friendship isn't valued.


A lot of the time, it's not that they don't value friendship, just that they want more than just friendship and the other person isn't interested in them the same way. It's hard for some people to remain being just friends with someone, and knowing that they'll only be friends if they have romantic feelings for them. It's not that they don't value friendship with them but if they have romantic feelings for them as well, then that can't just be turned off.

again, that doesn't make the concept of the "friendzone" valid. the other person in that scenario has done absolutely nothing wrong - it is the second person who is not holding the friendship i high enough esteem to keep it out of such terms as "friendzones" and such. if it was valued by the first person they wouldn't call it that.


What would you call it then? "Friendzone" is just a word used to describe the situation I described above. The point is, the first person didn't want just a friendship, they instead wanted a romantic relationship and that's why it's called that. It doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. But how does the first person remain try to remain friends if they have romantic feelings that activated everytime they see them and knowing that a relationship won't happen? Now, this is not true with everyone, but why do think most exes choose not to remain friends after their relationship ended? It's for the same reason, they can't get over the attraction for them

if you read what i wrote (which you quoted), i answered your question. "friendzone" is intended to describe friendship in a negative context. it isn't "just" a friendship if the friendship is valued in the first place. if the friendship is valued, it can be called.... friendship. pretty straightforward.

nobody is obligated to be friends, but nobody should have their friendship devalued either. an offer of friendship needn't be accepted, but it needn't be given a negative term either.

i think most exes don't remain friends because they were not really treating each other like friends in the relationship, so it wouldn't exactly carry over once the romance was over. it's distinct from a friend rejecting a romantic relationship, which can be overcome if a person's ego is put aside.


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17 Jan 2013, 7:45 pm

^I hardly think ego is the right word to use, there. It's just as valid to feel hurt by rejection as it is to feel hurt after breaking up with someone.


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