I don't know how to reject him.

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Probably_Drunk
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20 Jan 2018, 11:14 am

he's in love with her, she's kissing and cuddling with him and letting him masturbate on her, he's planning to move in with her, planning holidays together, he's probably already told his family about her, how he's met this wonderful woman that he's madly in love with, he's probably planning a proposal.

and all this time she's just playing him for hugs.. it's sick.



kraftiekortie
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20 Jan 2018, 11:17 am

The guy sort of jumped the gun on this, in my opinion.

He’s not a bad guy, though a little forceful.

I agree she has to stop hugging him.



magz
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20 Jan 2018, 11:18 am

Right now, after re-reading all this, I see it this way:

She wants hugs and cuddles, and a friend.
He wants sex and serious relationship.

She said she doesn't want a boyfriend but did not reinforce it with her actions.
He said he's OK with it but his actions show, he isn't.

So, you are both dishonest to each other. Not a good foundation for either friendship or relationship.
Sorry, you just can't keep it that way.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Jan 2018, 11:23 am

I once the misfortune of having a guy masturbate on me. I’m a guy.

I understand how she might have felt compelled and scared while she was allowing this. I understand the naïveté. Because I had the same naïveté.

I don’t think this is femme fatale stuff. I just sense her naïveté, and perhaps her fear.

She can’t hug and cuddle with the guy any longer. She has to end the relationship.

I sense her fear of doing this. Guys can get really stupid in these situations.



Probably_Drunk
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20 Jan 2018, 11:31 am

no, she needs to be a deicent person and cut all ties with this guy, she has total derailed his life to satisfy her own selfish needs, he has been totally honest and upfront in his feelings, intentions and his actions, she is the one playing games, people need to stop pandering to women who emotionally abuse men in this way, because s**t like this is how as*holes are made, the rest of the female race have to deal with the aftermath of women like this.

some things justify harshness, playing mind games with someone who's in love with you is deplorable.



kraftiekortie
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20 Jan 2018, 11:51 am

She’s sort of giving mixed signals—but I don’t think she’s consciously “playing games.”

The guy didn’t listen to what she said about not wanting a boyfriend and not wanting sex.

He decided to put illusions into his head, perhaps based on the “no is yes” principle.” It was often alleged, in the past that when a woman says “no” to sex, she often really means “yes.”

I think both are “culpable” in this instance.



Probably_Drunk
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20 Jan 2018, 11:58 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
She’s sort of giving mixed signals—but I don’t think she’s consciously “playing games.”

The guy didn’t listen to what she said about not wanting a boyfriend and not wanting sex.

He decided to put illusions into his head, perhaps based on the “no is yes” principle.” It was often alleged, in the past that when a woman says “no” to sex, she often really means “yes.”

I think both are “culpable” in this instance.

he told her how he felt, she then goes on to repeatedly kiss and cuddle with the guy even allowing the guy to masturbate on her, they are not both culpable in this instance, she knows he's planning a future with her but has chosen not to end it sooner because she enjoys hugs, sorry, but there is no excusing that kind of behaviour.



magz
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20 Jan 2018, 12:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
She’s sort of giving mixed signals—but I don’t think she’s consciously “playing games.”

The guy didn’t listen to what she said about not wanting a boyfriend and not wanting sex.

He decided to put illusions into his head, perhaps based on the “no is yes” principle.” It was often alleged, in the past that when a woman says “no” to sex, she often really means “yes.”

I think both are “culpable” in this instance.

Agreed.
But whatever one's judgement is, the advice remains the same:
Cut the tie. It's hard but it can't go on that way.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Jan 2018, 12:08 pm

Absolutely. She has to break it off.



Probably_Drunk
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20 Jan 2018, 12:16 pm

at least we have agreement on what should be done, but pretending that her behaviour is understandable or acceptable in any way is wrong, this poor guy is going to be a wreck after this, he thinks he's found the woman he's going to spend the rest of his life with, and she's kissing and cuddling with him, letting him masturbate on her, listening to all his plans for their future together, all the time having no intention of being with him, just playing with his emotions for free hugs.



clay5
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20 Jan 2018, 12:41 pm

Quote:
listening to all his plans for their future together,

yeah but he's listened to me too telling him I don't want to go on holiday, nor do I want marriage and nuclear family and that I want to live alone. And I think you mentioned it above that he has told his family about me, but no he hasn't and I also told him he shouldn't do that. I think it's very soon that already after 2 weeks all these wishes about the future are coming out.
The guy is good and will certainly not punish the - as you Probably_Drunk name us - "female race", and he will surely not turn into an as*hole. Don't get so angry about this Probably_Drunk, I know I should have broken it off earlier like I wrote in my opening post, and I am going to do it and I am also having worries about hurting him at this point because I let it go to far and find it hard to reject him- I know it is wrong what I did, whithout your angry posts. I opened this thread for encouragement. And I don't know what any of this has to do with feminism.



Probably_Drunk
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20 Jan 2018, 12:43 pm

clay5 wrote:
Quote:
listening to all his plans for their future together,

yeah but he's listened to me too telling him I don't want to go on holiday, nor do I want marriage and nuclear family and that I want to live alone. And I think you mentioned it above that he has told his family about me, but no he hasn't and I also told him he shouldn't do that. I think it's very soon that already after 2 weeks all these wishes about the future are coming out.
The guy is good and will certainly not punish the - as you Probably_Drunk name us - "female race", and he will surely not turn into an as*hole. Don't get so angry about this Probably_Drunk, I know I should have broken it off earlier like I wrote in my opening post, and I am going to do it and I am also having worries about hurting him at this point because I let it go to far and find it hard to reject him- I know it is wrong what I did, whithout your angry posts. I opened this thread for encouragement. And I don't know what any of this has to do with feminism.
stop playing games with him, you know he wants a relationship, stop using him to satisfy your own needs, you know he doesn't want to just be friends and hug.



kraftiekortie
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20 Jan 2018, 12:44 pm

It’s not a Feminist thing at all. I’ve jumped the gun like this guy did—and I learned from it.

I’m not taking a Feminist stand on this situation.

Another consideration: the culture of the man. Maybe any sort of intimacy = Marriage ultimately.



clay5
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20 Jan 2018, 12:48 pm

Probably_Drunk wrote:
stop playing games with him, you know he wants a relationship, stop using him to satisfy your own needs, you know he doesn't want to just be friends and hug.

Probably you should repeat it a few more times. :jester:
I wasn't playing any games.



Probably_Drunk
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20 Jan 2018, 12:51 pm

clay5 wrote:
Quote:
listening to all his plans for their future together,

yeah but he's listened to me too telling him I don't want to go on holiday, nor do I want marriage and nuclear family and that I want to live alone. And I think you mentioned it above that he has told his family about me, but no he hasn't and I also told him he shouldn't do that. I think it's very soon that already after 2 weeks all these wishes about the future are coming out.
The guy is good and will certainly not punish the - as you Probably_Drunk name us - "female race", and he will surely not turn into an as*hole. Don't get so angry about this Probably_Drunk, I know I should have broken it off earlier like I wrote in my opening post, and I am going to do it and I am also having worries about hurting him at this point because I let it go to far and find it hard to reject him- I know it is wrong what I did, whithout your angry posts. I opened this thread for encouragement. And I don't know what any of this has to do with feminism.

You're already hurting him, the only reason you haven't ended it is that you were getting what you wanted, and now it's getting too serious for your liking you want to tone it back to what you want, you know he's a good guy, you know that you're leading him on, you know that you're hurting him. the only encouragement you need is to stop emotionally abusing this guy.



Sycamore
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20 Jan 2018, 1:08 pm

clay5 - If you definitely think he is a good guy who is not going to turn into an a***hole over this, then I would recommend being really honest with him i.e. saying, "I really like you as a friend and a person. I am really sorry because the past couple of weeks I know my behaviour has been giving you the wrong signals. I do mean it when I say I don't want a boyfriend and don't like sex. Last night has made me realise that things have gone too far due to my behaviour (hugs and kisses) giving you the wrong messages, but I really really mean it when I say I just want to be friends. For the next few months, I think we should only meet in public and not hug or kiss at all. Otherwise, I think one or both of us will get really really badly hurt."

I think it's possible even for ex partners where one dumped the other to remain friends. However, sexual attraction is a powerful thing. He's attracted to you and you've previously given in (understandably) to liking having cuddles from him, etc, hence the need for cast-iron boundaries around the interactions between you two at this point in time so neither of you gets more hurt by the situation in the future.

Probably_Drunk - The guy may be a wreck for a while. Many people are a wreck after being dumped or finding out that what they thought was a blossoming relationship isn't. Hopefully, he'll then realise that 2 weeks of cuddling and kissing is a pretty flimsy basis for planning the rest of his life around. Many relationships don't work out and many last a lot longer than 2 weeks before breaking down. If clay5 follows through on her intention of honourably stopping all romantic / sexual interaction from now onwards and the guy goes permanently off the rails, I would guess there was something majorly wrong in his life prior to him developing a crush on clay5 and trying to become her boyfriend. People get dumped for all sorts of reasons. It's horrible. Depending on other factors (like their overall mental health, what else has happened in their life, etc) they get over it more or less badly, taking a shorter or longer period of time to accept having been dumped. It seems to me completely unfair to paint clay5 as potentially ruining this guy's life. Surely anybody who lets a two-week romance ruin their life must have had other problems in that life to start with (otherwise, no matter how intense the 2 weeks were, they can afterwards focus on the other good areas of their life until such time as they're able to dismiss it as 'those crazy 2 weeks [e.g. those crazy 2 weeks I thought I would marry clay5 despite her being a committed lifelong singleton]').