Physical attractiveness — a rant

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What strikes me as odd about this example you give is as follows:

You start off by saying you didn't find this person attractive and list your reasons why.
You accepted a date with her when you found out she was into you, even though you had a list of reasons you didn't like her.
She was good fun in bed so you didn't care what she looked like anymore.
You then say you would have considered marrying her.

At no point do you talk about whether you actually liked this person, beyond the fun sexy times. Could you have a conversation with her? Did she make you laugh? When you weren't with her, did you wish you were? From what you've written it doesn't sound like it. Yet you were prepared to marry her?

You say she got your interest, but did she? Because you don't sound very interested in her, beyond one very specific fucntion of her and how that part could satisfy your own libido.

It doesn't sound like she got anything from you, other than the satisfaction of her sexual desire. Maybe that's why she had misgivings about you as a long-term partner?

In a long-term relationship like a marriage I reckon you'd spend somewhere north of 99.9% of your time together NOT having sex. What are you going to do the rest of the time?

^That's all based on what you've written so perhaps there was more going on between you, I hope so. But I don't think its a story that supports your suggestion that 'unattractive' women ought to brush up on their man-pleasing skills if they want to get a partner. I think it more suggests a way to get stuck with a dude who doesn't really give a crap about them beyond their ability to satisfy him in bed.

And I'm fairly sure that you're wrong in thinking great sex can compensate for incompatibilities in other parts of the relationship. It can distract from them, for a while, but I don't think it ever compensates.

@DuckHairback You're missing the point. This thread is about attractiveness, not everything else that goes into developing a relationship. I said that discussions on WP tend to overlook the attractiveness or lack thereof of the people involved. And yes, in this situation showing sexual interest in me made this person more attractive. That is by no means the entire story of the relationship.

OTOH not showing evidence of physical arousal, even when willing to engage in sex, will make a person less attractive. I don't think anyone really disputes that, but approach it from the other direction and suddenly it's a big problem.

I believe you're English, do you happen to know who Wallis Warfield was?

Maybe I am missing the point. But I don't think so. I think I just find it false and I'm not willing to accept it. I'm refusing to accept the simple premise of your thread, that physical attractiveness can be separated from attractiveness in the wider sense.

I think what you're identifying as a taboo about talking about physical attractiveness is a frustration that many guys (I'm afraid it is usually guys) insist that their physical appearance is the sole factor in their failure to attract a partner and often go on to say that physical attractiveness is a red line for them in finding a partner.

To me, that demonstrates a lack of understanding about what a relationship is.

If you're just looking to rack up a high number of sexual encounters, then yes, a pretty face and a good body might be all you need.

But those things aren't in the slightest bit necessary for either good sex or a good, meaningful relationship, nor can they make up for a bad one.

Maybe this is Max’s experience, and that’s how he thinks it is for other people.

Some people find sex to be a bonding experience & it helps them feel a sense of intimacy with their partner. Sometimes friends with benefits develop into serious long-term relationships. Of coarse this is NOT guaranteed & it obviously carries the risk of the relationship being based on sex or one person being used for sex. But to be fair starting any romantic relationship has some various risk.

Very true.

Physical attractiveness, as intended by the subject of this thread, means characteristics that cause somebody to desire intimate relations with that person, whether acted on or not (usually not as one can find a great many people physically attractive but most people have at most one intimate partner at a time). You can recognize other types of attractiveness but that's not what I'm talking about. The fact is some people are more physically attractive than others and advice given on this forum that works for a physically attractive person might not work for a less attractive person.

A lot of things contribute to the success of a relationship. This thread is about attracting a partner in the first place. If people of the gender you desire aren't attracted to you, you'll have a difficult time establishing a relationship. If you're not "naturally" attractive, you may need to compensate. You may need to approach people who are themselves less attractive if you hope to find interest. It's not fair. Idealism won't make the issue go away.

Physical attractiveness had nothing to do with whether or not I wanted to have sex with someone.

What advice do you think wouldn’t work for a less attractive person?

Some of us aren’t stereotypically attractive and still found dates/partners without having to compensate in any of the questionable ways you’ve suggested in this thread.

Just because one is not conventionally good-looking does not mean they’ll necessarily struggle. Being kind, interesting, and funny can go a long way in making someone appear more attractive than they are. It’s not idealism although I suppose it could appear idealistic to people who are more appearance-driven.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 25 Jul 2023, 7:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

Queen.


I cba to get involved in this thread but that was awesome.

Thanks! I just feel sad that it needed to be said. I have no idea what the OP is smoking, but whatever it is, I want none of it.

I do understand what you're saying MaxE. I'm trying to explain why I disagree. I don't generally like line-by-line quote replies on these boards but maybe it'll be helpful in showing you exactly where my thinking and yours divulges, and why.

Yes.

Understood.

My assumption is that you're talking specifically about physical attractiveness here. Your assumption seems to be that there is a set standard for physical attractiveness. It ignores personal preference. The 'eye of the beholder' part. The part where somebody you meet just completely knocks you out despite them not being 'your type' or conventionally attractive. Maybe that's never happened to you. I'm sorry if it hasn't, you'll just have to trust that it's happened to me and I'm fairly sure I'm not unique.

I'd accept that there are certain attributes that are considered attractive and unattractive. Of course advertising often exploits this. Symmetricity is considered important. But a lot of it is cultural and learned, there are trends in what is considered attractive just as there are in fashion. And just like with fashion, not everyone follows the trends. We all have individual likes and dislikes.


Again, I question the premise. Not many people have model good looks. Most of us are unremarkable aesthetically, except to the people who find us attractive.

Of course there are superficial things you can do. Be clean, brush your teeth, style your hair, don't go out with your t-shirt covered in gravy etc.


This is where we're miles apart. It's this idea that we're all holding out for Britney Spears (to use an example from earlier in this thread) and go through a process of lowering our standards until we finds someone sufficiently beaten down by their own non-BritneySpearsishness that they're desperate enough to jump our bones. And then begins the great relationship-building process.

That's not advice I'd give anyone. It doesn't sound like the foundation of a successful relationship to me. It sounds kind of insulting to both people involved.

I think the truth is that physical attributes are just one part of what makes a person attractive, and different people find different things attractive.

Other things that make people attractive include confidence, intelligence, humour, empathy - that list goes on and on, and is personal, and I think you can get an idea of these things very early on in getting to know someone. Not as immediate as looks, obviously, but you'll pick up on someone's confidence very quickly - even from their deportment. You can get an idea of those other things from a very brief conversation. Enough to know if you want to find out more.

And MY experience is that if someone displays some of these non-physical attributes that I find attractive, very quickly aspects of their physicality that I may not have noticed immediately, can become attractive. I once had a crush on a girl who had a lazy eye - not something on anyone's list of conventionally attractive traits. I wasn't immediately attracted to her lazy eye, I just got to know her and found out she was lovely and before long, that lazy eye was a big part of what I found attractive about her - it was all mixed up with her personality. And that didn't take a long time to happen. Perhaps you'd read this as an example of me 'lowering my standards' but that's not how I think of it, rather in the context of her personality, her physicality was enhanced for me.

I think that's the nut of what I'm trying to say in my long-winded way, so I'll repeat it: In the context of personality, physicality can be enhanced.

But if you're ruling people out from the start based on their physical appearance alone, there's no time for this process to happen.

Likewise, if you feel that your physicality is a barrier to people finding you attractive the answer isn't to approach people you judge as decreasingly attractive until you get a bite. The answer is to make sure your personality isn't compounding the problem. Be interesting, be interested, be funny, be kind - these are all things people can work on.


I don't think it is idealistic to think the way I do. I think it's very practical. I think it gives you agency to change things to improve your chances of finding someone you do find attractive. I think if you believe that physical attractiveness is always the first and most important part of attraction then you're cutting off possibilities to have rewarding relationships with all sorts of people.

If your focus is on having a relationship for the sake of it, and you're considering that you're approaching someone 'less attractive' to achieve that end, then that's a lot of negativity to be taking into a relationship (both in terms of how you feel about yourself and how you feel about the other person). I doubt that would end well.

Being so focused on appearances also puts an awful lot of pressure on yourself to conform to some ideal (which is your ideal, not your potential partners btw), and thinking yourself deficient in some way if you don't measure up.

This.

However, such an obvious statement will never survive first contact with the enemy on a message board.

Maybe it’s true for you, but it’s not true for everyone.

So you believe there is no such thing as physical attractiveness?

I believe that people can be physically attractive, but I think we find different things attractive. I believe that personality can make someone appear more attractive than they are. To me, pure physical appearance isn't that important. I realize that it is very important to some people.

I disagree with this:

Just because someone is good-looking does not mean that I would want to sleep with them. It doesn't mean that they'd be good in bed. Character qualities like kindness, empathy, and having a connection based on common interests are a better indicator of that in my opinion, and I'm more likely to be attracted to people with such traits no matter their outward appearance.

I was raped by someone who was considered very good-looking. He was, obviously, an awful person with none of the positive attributes I listed above. My stance predates that horrific experience by the way. I rarely even notice if someone is attractive or not.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 25 Jul 2023, 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.