Louisiana putting 10 Commandments in School Classrooms

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roronoa79
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22 May 2024, 9:50 am

Huh? I thought it was Muslims who were trying to force their religion into law? Conservative Christians would surely never do something they so loudly condemn when others do it.


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22 May 2024, 12:08 pm

AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.



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22 May 2024, 1:40 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


Is there any country we *can* easily emigrate to?


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funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 3:17 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


It might be because as problematic as this is, it's no where near enough to make someone be considered as a refugee because it (rightfully) isn't considered persecution.


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22 May 2024, 3:28 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


Is there any country we *can* easily emigrate to?

There's no wide-open doors, but some are easier to get through than others:

https://nomadcapitalist.com/expat/easie ... -from-usa/
https://visaguide.world/tips/easiest-co ... -from-usa/

I was also once told by a chap who had travelled the world a lot that in a lot of places it's more about unofficial bribery than actually qualifying to be allowed through.

Mexico doesn't look very hard to settle in, but I've seen too many episodes of Breaking Bad so I'd be scared of the criminals.



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22 May 2024, 3:41 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Mexico doesn't look very hard to settle in, but I've seen too many episodes of Breaking Bad so I'd be scared of the criminals.


I get the feeling there's a good reason why so many more people seek to move in the opposite direction, compared to trying to move to Mexico from the US.


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22 May 2024, 3:41 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


Is there any country we *can* easily emigrate to?


If there was, wouldn't people from other places with a greater need to relocate already have moved there?


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22 May 2024, 4:00 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


It might be because as problematic as this is, it's no where near enough to make someone be considered as a refugee because it (rightfully) isn't considered persecution.

So far the persecution is indeed at a very low level. Maybe if Trump gets back in it'll get more serious, but the UK gov isn't fond of embarrassing the US gov, and the main UK parties aren't about to relax the asylum laws. Quite the reverse. There's no particular hatred towards American immigrants, as they barely exist, but the net migration stats are watched very carefully and the Home Office doesn't care how they get the numbers down, as they've demonstrated many times.



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22 May 2024, 4:03 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


It might be because as problematic as this is, it's no where near enough to make someone be considered as a refugee because it (rightfully) isn't considered persecution.

So far the persecution is indeed at a very low level. Maybe if Trump gets back in it'll get more serious, but the UK gov isn't fond of embarrassing the US gov, and the main UK parties aren't about to relax the asylum laws. Quite the reverse. There's no particular hatred towards American immigrants, as they barely exist, but the net migration stats are watched very carefully and the Home Office doesn't care how they get the numbers down, as they've demonstrated many times.


That's a very solid point too. America's liberal allies will probably remain more concerned about embarrassing the US than American refugees unless things get pretty bad.


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22 May 2024, 4:22 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Mexico doesn't look very hard to settle in, but I've seen too many episodes of Breaking Bad so I'd be scared of the criminals.


I get the feeling there's a good reason why so many more people seek to move in the opposite direction, compared to trying to move to Mexico from the US.

Oh yes, be careful what you wish for. Economic migration depends on the individual - a few £UK or $US can have remarkably good buying power in some countries, so if you have a pension or savings it might add to the attraction. I guess most Mexican immigrants have little but their labour power, and are mainly looking for paid work.

And respect for freedom of religion is probably no better respected in Mexico than it is in the US. It's likely that in both countries the rural areas have the least respect for non-Christians.



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22 May 2024, 5:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
AFAIK forced religious observance is still taboo in the UK except maybe for "faith schools" that have a particular designated religion, and nobody is forced by law or economics to go to such a school. Church and State are more completely separated than they are in the USA, and (for example) the Muslims, a fairly large pressure group, would likely object strongly to forced Christianity in State schools. Nobody listened much to atheists who had similar objections.

Unfortunately Americans can't easily claim political asylum in the UK, nor can they migrate to the UK at all these days unless they're pretty wealthy.


It might be because as problematic as this is, it's no where near enough to make someone be considered as a refugee because it (rightfully) isn't considered persecution.


Transgender people are facing some significant oppression in a number of US states. Also the restrictions to reproductive healthcare are serious in many of those same states. But yeah, unless it becomes nationwide, there is no consideration for refugee status.

I think if Trump got back in office and if the Republicans take the Senate and keep the House, then there is a major chance of oppression coming down the pipeline not just for trans people, but a lot of other groups as well (including many that I'm a part of...) that would end up being on a nationwide scale. This is outlined in Project 2025 along with the extremist rhetoric that is being laid out by so many mainstream right wingers now, and it just keeps on getting more and more extreme. Where does it end? D:

Unfortunately, I think it'd be too late for all of us when other countries began considering refugee status. It would mark the end of any idea of friendly relations between the US and the other nations.

Like many of the US populace, the rest of the world may have a "It can't happen here" (or "there" for the other countries, referring to the US) frame of mind and still can't believe that anyone in the US could pull off this kind of oppression. I hope dearly that that's true, but I must warn people that the US's checks and balances have been compromised in many ways, and that people behind Project 2025 have studied up on how other democracies were compromised and turned authoritarian (like Hungary. There's been lots of contact between Orban and the far right). We are a lot more vulnerable than at first glance.

And I also must note that the same organizations behind stacking the Supreme Court to overrule Roe v Wade are also behind Project 2025.


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22 May 2024, 5:58 pm

^
Yes I think such dangers are real.



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22 May 2024, 8:48 pm

But even if Project 2025 became law, we still would not be let in by other countries. So we would be trapped, and violent revolution would be the only way to get Trump and his followers out.


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funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 8:59 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
But even if Project 2025 became law, we still would not be let in by other countries. So we would be trapped, and violent revolution would be the only way to get Trump and his followers out.


Exactly. There's a lot of people facing a lot worse than what Trump is likely to be able to do, why would Yanks get preferential treatment when there's so many more people in even worse situations?

Not to mention, do you think foreign conservatives aren't going to make a big fuss if a bunch of American liberals get fast-tracked for citizenship in their countries?


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