why such huge veneration of science?

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Wow, it's amazing to me that a person who makes a deep thoughtFUL insight about life that many OTHERS have validated as TRUTH THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY, in many philosophical AREAS OF opinions, IF one moves out a little in fuller EDUCATION OF HUMAN PHILOSOPHY, PER real IN the REALEST LIFE THAT EXISTS FOR ANY HUMAN THAT IS AN EMOTIONAL LIFE, IS TROLLING.

JUST BECAUSE you do NOT understand something does not mean someone else is a troll.

With A LITTLE more experience in life, perhaps one day you too, will understand this insight as well.

MANY OTHERS already have and can understand this as easy as 1 plus 1.

And OMG, even science is catching up at least a little bit on this Human evolved TRUTH, with all due respect.

There was a time when I too thought that poetry does not have a practical end, but truly I did understand what practicality even was then, as my experience of life was a highly restricted one in ways of mechanical cognition only thinking.

Science now shows that there are two pathways of the brain.

One pathway is that of mechanical cognition and solving mechanical problems which is one and almost the same as science.

One pathway is that of social cognition and human empathy/emotions which is one and almost the same as the human expression of ART.

So a math equation is science and mechanical cognition; and a poem is art and social cognition.

The problem with science is it has a very limited capacity to measure either Quantum Physics or human ART.

Science now IS JUST beginning to suggest that physical intelligence through THE ART, NOT SCIENCE, OF MOVEMENT aka Physical Intelligence IS WHAT DRIVES Human Emotional Regulation and Sensory Integration.

Eastern Philosophies have understood and practiced this HUMAN TRUTH FOR LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF YEARS, WITH REAL LIFE results that no one who practices these arts of human movement denies who benefits from them.

Poetry connects human language with emotion and fires human action, as scientists understand now that emotions are the core of what drives most all human rational decisions.

The word emotion means to motivate physical action for good reason.

And the FACT NOW, that the ART of physical movement aka Physical Intelligence drives both emotional regulation and sensory integration IS perhaps the greatest fact that science has ever come to finally know as HUMAN TRUTH, as the folks who denied the importance of it in their ivory towers may one day become more fully human too, if they get to read the research. :)

And not only that science shows that emotions are the glue of human memory, so with the repression, oppression, or subjugation of emotions through illusory fears also comes deficits in human executive functioning, and with that in combination of the loss of emotional regulation and sensory integration it's no wonder fundamentalist literalists in all ways of life from religion to school to parents, told children to sit still so they COULD BE CONTROLLED.

TO TAKE away physical intelligence or poetry from FULLER HUMAN BEINGS IS TO LITERALLY KILL PART OF THEIR BRAIN AND LIFE, AS SCIENCE NOW SHOWS, PER THE social cognition pathway of the brain.

And the fact IS STRESS KILLS, AS SCIENCE SHOWS NOW TOO, AND an overall 'best' AFFECTIVE/EFFECTIVE way to increase stress is to repress, oppress, and or subjugate human emotions through illusory fears.

And it's what manipulators for greed have done throughout history whether behind the pulpit, school, or parenting.

To not understand THAT POETRY RESULTS IN MOVING HUMANS TO ACTION, IS to neither understand the importance of human emotion or poetry, in affect and effect, in my opinion.

But No, I too, was once almost totally in the dark about this, but am TRULY ENLIGHTENED NOW IN WAYS OF ART AND SCIENCE, AND TRULY THE ART OF PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE AND POETRY IS SCIENCE TOO, to me at least, AS I can provide the evidence in terms of flesh and blood of the difference it makes in fuller human being.

Those ARE RESULTS THAT REALLY COUNT in human being, in my opinion.

Most of the other 'stuff' is basically 'clothes', in my opinion, TG NOW. :)

Problem number one

Mr. 1401 was likely being sarcastic. He was actually praising science- and praising it for a very important virtue. The virtue that disciplines such as religion don't have- which is the virtue of being self-correcting.

Problem number two

You fell for his sarcasm and took it as a straight statement.


Problem number three

You not only took it straight, but you proceded to heartily agree with him about what he was NOT saying. Lol!

Problem number four

In agreeing with what he was NOT saying you expose a huge lack of awareness of the irony in what you yourself are saying. AND...unwittingly- you are lampooning yourself and are lampooning what 1401 pretends to be saying- and are in fact agreeing with what 1401 is REALLY saying! Irony wrapped in irony.

Let me explain number four.

He is pointing out that science is self correcting.
Your examples of how scientists of the past were just human - and can make errors- but how those errors were later overturned-and overturned BY OTHER SCIENTISTS- shows that... science is self correcting. which is a virtue of science. Which is the very point 1401 was making.

But for some odd reason you think that being self correcting is bad.

140lb did this so well that I had to go back to some of his older PPR posts to be absolutely sure.

Poe's Law is in effect.

1: You're talking about mode of operation; I'm talking about failure mode.

2: You don't have "the rest of the world" looking for holes in your ideas. We made that mistake with opensource software (which was modeled on peer-review) and got burned (see heartbleed, etc.). I've looked at tons of code, but I haven't done a security audit on a single application. Most people read academic papers in the same way.

3: Something that's "indistinguishable from the truth" to you might not be to the people using the data in the field. I can be killed if something goes wrong. I'd rather have uncertainty (which tells me to watch out) than false certainty (which might lead me to walk right into something that I won't walk out of).

You seem to treat this like a sport in which there's always a winner. In the real world, its entirely possible that nobody will win. Reality is pass/fail and it isn't graded on a curve.

I have not read everything in this thread. Might read it later, but I kind of lost interest when few people seemed to care about what I said. It remains my view that the core of this subject is that many people are unaware to what degree their minds are molded by others.

Propaganda, Edward Bernays

As I said, there is science and the scientific method, but then there is the system, the world view, the religion if you will, which to a degree is separate, but related.

I already mentioned Brave New World. Nineteen Eighty-Four is good also, and A Scanner Darkly.







A lot of people in the West think of themselves as relatively free people, and they think that they can go online, or elsewhere, and find almost anything they desire to find information wise. I find this naive or ignorant or lacking insight and I personally have a very strong feeling that there is a lot that is kept in the dark for me, and that I am being manipulated, more or less my entire perceived universe is molded and shaped and has been from an early age.

Brave New World

I have created two allegories for this feeling:





This guy knows what I'm talking about:

source: http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/06/RIR-140604.php

Already back in the days of Rumi he had the same sense, and even Plato back in his day.

source: The Sufi Path of Love : The Spiritual Teachings of Rumi by William C. Chittick

I believe that this illusory world that so many take for real is what in Gnosticism is referred to as the creation of the Demiurge. The Gnostics are those who have this sense of the world around them as being fake, and are striving for that which lies behind the veils, whereas the ignorant multitudes take that fake world for real.

Just think about Google and what enormous power that company has over people's minds.

I personally think that there is a deliberate effort in the world to make people as robotic as you possibly can. I think this might be a good thing because I think that when this development progresses you get a portion of people who begin to feel this, and this is something spiritual. This scene illustrates this:

Those Red Ice people are not to be trusted. They are pathological liars, running articles from InfoWars, David Icke and the Daily Mail, and claiming that salt cures cancer and cold fusion is real. There's an awful lot of nasty racism and green-baiting too.

They say salt is supposed to cure cancer?

Do you mean me? I am skeptical of a lot of stuff on red ice, but I think there are some good things too. InfoWars, I take that with a grain of salt too. I'm not a fan of David Icke, although I think some things he has said probably have some truth to them, but I personally think a huge portion of what David Icke says is BS. Daily Mail, no don't read that. Might have seen some article from there, don't remember, but I wasn't aware that was an especially suspicious source, perhaps because I don't live in a country that has English as the first language, so thanks for the info. Racism, yes there's a fair share of that going around, I'm skeptical of that as much as I am of egalitarianism. Green-baiting, let me look that word up in a dictionary. Anti-environmentalism, hmmm, I'm not much of a political activist. If you are talking about me I think you are being somewhat intolerant. I do realize that most of what I talked about perhaps might require some kind of intuition or personal spiritual experience to be able to grasp, which is why it's probably pointless to try to talk about it to those who don't have that. They try to kill Neo in The Matrix. Plato talked about this too:

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato#Metaphysics

Possibly. I very rarely watch video clips so I haven't looked to see what that one says. He did an interview in the late 1970s or early 1980s that I should still have on a VHS tape. In fact, I had just gotten my first recorder and it was actually the first thing I ever recorded on it. I wonder if that might be from that interview.

I would agree that in the case of Global Warming, it has almost become a religion for some. Much of that does see bogus, but I suspect that most of that bogosity is not from the actual researchers, but from flunkies who read into it more than what is there.



I'm not a doctor and aren't aware of the hostility of which you speak.



Perhaps you don't understand the terms.

What laymen call a "theory" is anything but that in science. At best, what a layman might call a theory would be a conjecture. At worst, an hallucination.

A theory is an explanation that has stood the test of time. The scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports it, and that may be an understatement.



Keep in mind that science writers are often not scientists. If you want to know what the science says, look at the research papers, not newspaper or internet articles.



Because we cannot experiment directly on evolutionary processes to a large degree, inductive arguments do play a legitimate purpose. While those arguments might possibly be wrong, that possibility is quite low.

There is no doubt whatsoever that evolution has happened. The open questions are about the precise mechanisms of evolution, not the existence of evolution itself. The only way to deny that evolution has indeed happened and is always happening, even now, is to come up with some magical explanation for which there is no evidence of any kind.

Magic is ignorance, not science.

To clarify, I was responding to a bit of your post, but I was attacking Red Ice, not you.

Depends. There is a strain of feminism that holds the view that women should take predatory pride in their sexual exploits just as men do, which would create something more like a cougar epidemic than anything...if it suddenly caught on, anyhow.

Well, I think it would be beneficial if men were only showing an interest in becoming fathers. There are too many fathers now who have little or no interaction with their kids, and I think the world would be a little happier if the only men conceiving children were those who actually were happier with rugrats to care for. I think the inclination to parent is the most important qualification for the job, before intelligence, health or any other trait. A willing and engaged father is very meaningful to a child, in my way of thinking.

Ok. I am quite critical and skeptical of that site too, and I have become increasingly so over time. Maybe part of that is my conspiratorial nature but I certainly have my suspicions about that site. You have to do a lot of sifting, and even then I find that the primary use is for finding ideas, books etc. talked about and then do your own research on that. It's kind of like reading a forum in that way, lots of people who don't know all that much but you can still get bits and pieces from them if you know how to sift. And there are some quite knowledgeable people on there too from time to time that seem somewhat sincere. I found the book Economics In One Lesson through listening to that show for example, so it's not all mumbo jumbo. I do feel tired of red ice sometimes though. Can be a bit one-sided and narrow-minded. But as for that quote about the cold war that I posted, I think that it's a good illustration of what I was talking about, and I think that the psychological aspect of what he talked about is quite accurate. Here's a video that I think is very fitting with that quote:

No.. it's not an either/or.. Unlike science, poetry doesn't NEED to have a practical end, but very often it has one anyway. Sometimes, poetry does for the soul what massage does for the body. Other times poetry helps get at a notion quicker than a long winded explanation. It has many uses. And sometimes it's just there and that's all it needs to be.

And me being relatively new and not knowing his previous posts... I fell for it....

.....at first. lol

Well parodied, I say!