Is there any proof God exists?

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Of-course it not observable ! It doesn't exist !

Hmmm. The superficially obvious is rarely the guts of the question. I'd agree with that.

Just by looking at the universe, one can easily conclude that the First Cause (i.e. God) is sentient, intelligent and extremely powerful.

Mmmm. An ordinarily rational being could reasonably conclude that, but the challenge is can we prove it by natural science? I say that we can, but that doesn't mean that someone, or anyone, drunk on egomania can, or will, be convinced.

Let's give it a go though, if only to tidy up our own apologetics and, with a bit of luck, encourage some others to scoff at Goliath.

Understood, but you brought up natural science, which is about the business of the superficially obvious. If you can use natural sciences to demonstrate the necessity of a First Cause, it follows that natural science can INFER some of those necessary attributes.

It was a First Cause that brought about the largest stars in the galaxy, those stars being the most massive objects. The kind of power contained within just one of the most massive stars is, in my mind, unimaginable. We certainly have no ability to create something like that, and yet such a creative force as to create not just one super-star, but ALL of them all the way down to the tiniest stars like our sun created everything with the simple ease of just speaking it into existence. [Note: Even if you reject the Bible and Yahweh, whatever or whoever the First Cause was/is seemed to bring about creation seemingly effortlessly, which is my point here--my own views notwithstanding.] The First Cause in undeniably, immensely powerful.

I already mentioned the creative aspect of the First Cause. Since we are a direct result of a creative effort, we are made to be creative creatures. We're playing with splitting atoms and cloning…activities previously thought to be ONLY within the realm of the divine. I have my doubts as to whether some of these things are morally within our purview, but at the same time we HAVE been allowed to discover how those things work and put those things to work for our benefit. Because creation is by definition a creative act, and because creation reflects the Creator, God is necessarily a creative being.

Of course, if you want the deeper stuff, there's omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence…just for starters.

i am

busy lately,

reflecting the Creator,

per Creation AS IS.

I am not allowed to provide proof of

that in direct links here anymore.

But the path is still allowed to that in my signature line;

For those with 'eyes' and 'ears' to 'see' and 'hear'.

For others there apparently is simply not as much reflection of the Creator
in 'their' 'eyes' and 'ears' of 'seeing' and 'hearing' truth and light.

And truly that is okay in truth and light too.. as the false and dark.. only inspire in spirit

the truth and light

greater than

before.

We live in an evolving IS.

Some folks evolve.

And other do
NOT;
And that's the way of the
'world' so far, for NOW AS IS.

You're getting ahead of yourself, cobber. There's lots about natural science that is not superficially obvious.... well, except to you, perhaps.

Don't get too cocky. I just happen to have a smattering of and after the starters there's more that you would never have heard about yet.

A load of misleading codswallop, Hogsy. Everyone evolves from a zygote to a corpse. Physically no more, no less.

OH

my GOD;

that's literally truly silly;

That's NOT literal;

THAT's metaphor,

per evolving spirit.

Not a corpse of spirit.

At least not for me..

God 'speaks' 'within' human beings, intuitively.

Science at most is a poor attempt to scribe GOD on the 'outside'.

The universe of human lives within. And that's a fact too, per science, ironically so, too.

I am 'simply' here, as this is the most challenging place on the Internet to PROVE THIS TO NON-BELIEVERS, (NIHILISTS) WHO DO NOT
HAVE the innate and or environmentally influenced ability to believe at all, per the emotion of belief. Without the emotion of belief there is no human spirit. And that's a spiritual reality, fact or not.

Anyway, after conquering this difficulty myself; I can only say I love challenges; even the relatively impossible ones of
having a horse 'drink the water' when a horse has no 'idea' what water is. It's hard to make 'a pig prettier with lipstick', per metaphor too; no offense intended, literally as such, either.

All I can do is provide A path, as some horses may never 'know and feel water' in one lifetime, of course, and truly that's sadder than any reality, I for one, who goes to 'both places' of reality in one life, can imagine, now.

And that's why I have not given up yet. I already have the gift of the all natural empowering emoting emotions of faith, hope, belief, and relative human free will to regulate those emotions, and additional human emotions regulated AND senses integrated, where I can make all my dreams in imagination and creativity come true, in a real flesh blood practice of life, as evidenced over and over, ad-nauseam, in this thread, already.

Having it ALL, MEANS ALL THAT IS LEFT IS TO SHARE THAT.

AND that can be the job of JOB as well.

But that's OKAY; already been there and done THAT with the documented worst pain known to mankind, type two Trigeminal Neuralgia; worse than crucifixion; on this crucifixion weekend for reference and comparison, for over 5 years from wake to sleep.

I am capable of anything and everything now. That's what hell under a belt can and will do for a human being.

And I have already evidenced the irrefutable results of those human real life miracles here, again, ad-nauseam, for anyone who still is not 'asleep'..



I'm kinda like the dude; 'the dude' man..

Quite a lot of natural science is not superficially obvious. In fact much of it is counterintuitive. So we agree on that one thing.

But....cobber????

Your extensive use of Australian slang does add a layer of obfuscation for non-Australians. Luckily I found this:

http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html

cobber=friend

This thread has been bountiful indeed.

I was going to agree with you that there is a hellava lot more to Man than just a physical progression (evolution) from a zygote to a corpse.

I still wouldn't trust a therapist.

When I am ill with 19 serious life threatening disorders in total synergy, I literally went to over 100 doctors appointments, and I literally had over 100 pages of medical documentation gaining both government civil service disability and SSDI disability on the first try with no lawyer.

And I accomplish this on my own, through excruciating pain and disability, including having to go to the OPM, Federal Office of Personnel Management's, director's office, by email traffic and DOD, Department of Defense regulation to provide and explain the law to them that qualifies me for civil service disability, as my case is an odd one, then, because I switch around to non-appropriated funded positions, during my federal career.

I visit at least a total of 15 doctors, therapists, licensed mental health social workers, psychiatrists, and absolutely none of them can offer me any remediation of treatment for my illnesses, other than the prescription eye drop Restasis; an immune system modulator that brings tears back to my eyes.

My rheumatologist tells me then, there is nothing he can do for me and just to go away, in words to that effect, as he can find no pain drugs that can 'touch' the pain of type two Trigeminal Neuralgia, in my case.

I am the only one, then, who is able to find the cure for all my illnesses with the higher power of GOD within.

And in analyzing it in as logical a way as possible, in an analytical way of abstract concepts of language that my current therapists who are monitoring my stay at recovery can understand, they look to me for advice, now, to help their other patients now that I have 'miraculously' cured my illnesses on my own initiative, through the higher power of GOD within me that I do provide, an analytical approach to, in abstract concepts, as I currently find possible to discuss here, and with them.

They have no problem understanding what I describe here, and are successfully utilizing my way of curing myself with other patients, as well, including folks on the Autism Spectrum, too. I cannot say that they have cured any other cases of Autism but my form certainly is NOT functionally disabling in social contexts anymore; in fact, it works better in real life results than what one sees with so-called neuro-typicals, overall.

I find friends in strangers wherever I go now, in real flesh and blood life, effortlessly, after increasing my physical intelligence, emotional regulation, sensory integration, cognitive executive functioning including focus and short term working memory, along with greatly increased abilities in both expressing and understanding non-verbal language.

That's not stuff that my therapists have much of a clue about, to TRULY FIX, until I eventually enter the therapist picture with the answers, myself.

They trust me. I do not have to trust them; and I am dead and alive serious about THAT..

And I am certainly now one who is 'carrying that money' to distribute to others.

I AM PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS. WITHOUT GOD, I WILL BE DEAD, NOW, more than likely, per

the 'money of life' and not the 'money of death'.

I call GOD the GOD of Nature but that same GOD of Nature is a GOD of Nature that makes
dreams come true when human is more fully utilizing higher emotional and sensory powers within,
by way of sychronicities in meaningful signs and guideposts along the way that are stranger than
any fiction ever written in myth, religion, philosophy, or so-called pseudo-science.

GOD is real life MAGICK IN ACTION OF CREATION AS IS;

GREATER THAN ANY SCIENTIFIC Method alone will ever provide evidence for.

Science may scribe some 'bones' of GOD but overall, GOD is an amazing tapestry
of creative power, as art that not even art alone with human minds and emotions
fully in tow, will ever come close to fully understand.

But that's who art works, per both GOD

and human together in the power all of creation.

Beauty IS IN the eye of the beholder of existence as is, aka GOD.

*But that's "HOW" God works, and maybe 'who' too BUT 'who' doesn't make as much sense, as 'how', huh..

Seriously, with that typo in fuller consideration, in TRUTH and LIGHT, it is more important

to figure out how GOD works, per verb, than WHO GOD IS, per noun.

AND PERHAPS it is more important to figure out how we work than who we are.

How I do it, IS who I AM, in all the creative activities, I do in life.

How GOD DOES it is who GOD is,

in just doing it, as is, NOW, creatively as such, too.

That simplifies this whole argument to 'common human GOD sense', for now, as is.

Smiles, and hope you are having a great day or night IN NOW down under, or so above..

Your profile says you are in 'Mountain View, California'. It may be like this over there, I don't know, but in most of the rest of the world people who believe Genesis to be literally true are not taken seriously. I recently came across a story about a Saudi cleric who stated he believed the Earth to be flat, and everyone, including people in his own country, laughed at him (unfortunately I do not at this time have the link, I would have to search for it).

Every Church or religious group I have attended be it California, Washington state, or Texas have rejected Evolution and scowl at it anything scientifically accurate I have learned in college is false teachings to them and I am going to hell according to their views!Physical evidence according to them is the devil trying to trick man they use the carbon dating BS to say its note accurate when multiple radiometric dating methods are used and are 99% to 100% accurate!If it is not in the bible its not true according to them! The demonization of stem cell research regardless on how much it has improved the lives of humans and abortion regardless of possibly saving the mothers life are considered wrong and evil and lets not go with cloning that is evil too!If god was real then why does he not show himself to us if he is he would be an immortal scientist with insecurity issues! Can god create a rock so heavy he cannot lift?

God does whatever He wants. We don't tell him what do. He tells us what do .